It’s 100% legal

[cannabineer]

yes, yes i do think they will. mainly becaue they are. this is not the only article either but this was written like days ago so follow up if you care to inform yourself on what has been going on allover the world with auto and fem commercial seeds replacing old cultivars in morrocco and elswhere. hell greenhouse seeds single handedly destroyed so many cultivars for the last 10 years or more than i care to get into
https://cbdmagnates.com/2018/12/21/weed-farming-moroccan-style-with-autoflower-seeds/

Judging by the article, these are drug-farming opportunists. The real genetics are being held more closely, I imagine. I don't see how this equates to a destruction of important cultivars. Can you explain? Which/whose cultivars were destructively displaced (specifically by Greenhouse Seeds), and to what effect?

 

[outliergenetix]

Judging by the article, these are drug-farming opportunists. The real genetics are being held more closely, I imagine. I don't see how this equates to a destruction of important cultivars. Can you explain? Which/whose cultivars were destructively displaced (specifically by Greenhouse Seeds), and to what effect?

being held tightly by a few is literally the problem. they cannot even plant thiers without it being open pollinated by herm fems or autos or even regs of foreign genetics. it's abotu numbers. commercial is gonna out select local and with no incentive or even worse criminalization for private growers then we are in trouble. good thing ppl like bodhi go around grabbing old seed stock from these regions first hand in an ethical way, not by trading them "suprerior" genetics.

 

[cannabineer]

being held tightly by a few is literally the problem. they cannot even plant thiers without it being open pollinated by herm fems or autos or even regs of foreign genetics. it's abotu numbers. commercial is gonna out select local and with no incentive or even worse criminalization for private growers then we are in trouble. good thing ppl like bodhi go around grabbing old seed stock from these regions first hand in an ethical way, not by trading them "suprerior" genetics.

List some cultivars whose loss Greenhouse Seeds has caused. I'd also like a reference in the peer-reviewed literature, but the list will do.

 

[cannabineer]

That statement is total

Ooh! Noun hunt!! Truth? Wisdom? Iconoclasm? Oh I do love a good noun hunt.

If I interpret your addendum inside the quote as an attempted reply ... please provide a credible reference for your claim. Specifically:
What farmers of Cannabis have used Monsanto to their detriment?

The subsidiary and broader argument is - what farmers have used Monsanto GM (and/or nonGM) seed to their detriment? Actual, current detriment, and not some jeremiad about potential genome loss or contamination? I have heard zero about North American farmers (Monsanto's No. 1 market) experiencing a reduction in crops or operating margins as a result of Monsanto seed. I admit I have not researched the matter. Can you provide primary (so: no blogs, E-mags and other information repackagers/spin doctors) links to reliable accounts of G-8 farmers being hit in the pocketbook by Monsanto (or other mega-ag) seed products?

 

[cannabineer]

for scientificaly-anointed examples of GM crops being bad.

It can have unforeseen implications, one is that original strains are controlled only by the commercial breeder and they can do with them as they see fit. Two, the material they create is modified from it's original state in a way that may not be beneficial and for reasons purely for monetary reasons. That is why a large movement is on to preserve heritage vegetable seed stock. Which leads me to preservation and regular localized use of landrace species- If these seeds do not continue to be grown in their native lands by their peoples, the original seeds will not keep pace with changes in their original environment and the species risk extinction. If you watch the videos where those guys go around the planet in search of weed seed, one video the videographer asked the main guy " hey you stand to make millions off the seed of these African peoples, if you do will they get a percentage?" his answer... " no unfortunately that's not how our business works" He's a fucken crook! only in it for the money, he paid village elders $40 American dollars for the right to steal their genetic material! So he could make millions selling it as feminized drug weed around the world! Don't know about you but that stinks of foul smelling shit!

This is precisely why I am asking for specific and documented instances. The rest of it (the bolded in particular) puts me in mind of an emotion-driven argument, and such arguments are the foundation of dogma. I am not interested in dogma. I have heard opinions about the evils of mega-ag but precious few documented examples. Thus I am undecided on this particular shibboleth of the green movement. That movement has raped science in the quest to generate the appearance of scientific support for an article of faith, i.e. GM is baaaaaad. I was hoping you and the other guy would have those examples handy, since they are all that separates truth from sloganism. If you ask me, sloganeers are a greater evil than capitalists. Money keeps capitalists conditionally honest; no such brake is on the sloganeers.

 

[cannabineer]

Do you need to see Monsanto take over weed to know it's bad? It was an example of what could happen if business continues like it has been. Original genetics for breeding is extremely hard to find now. It continues to get harder every year.

Yes. I need concrete, established, documented examples of
1) Monsanto's GM crops being bad, and
2) a quantitative assessment of the status and trends in Cannabis genetics.

Without such information, I might as well be at a tent revival. That combines two of my biggest peeves: dogma and camping.

 

[cannabineer]

As for the loss of crops d

As for the loss of crops due to Monsanto seed? Well some have lost entire farms due to Monsanto seed infiltrating their crops! But beyond that, the herbicide resistant plants have caused top soil to die to the point that desertification is a real concern. I do not need to substantiate my claims with you as they are an undisputed fact. I know many local farmers that have been hurt in the wallet by Monsanto, I will not use their names or go into specifics out of respect for their privacy. Fortunately, many of us are trying diligently to use herbicide free and pesticide free inputs with heritage seed stock and as much locally acclimatized seed as possible, now if only we can rescue bee populations?

To bolded 1: Until you provide documentation, I do not stipulate to this being so.
To bolded 2: do you have a peer-reviewed source for this? "Desertification" is an evocative and provocative term, so I need hard data showing its progress according to an accepted definition of the term.
To bolded 3: Provide the peer-reviewed link. Peer-reviewed publication is the universal and singular forum for undisputed fact. There is NO other acceptable source of the facts used as premises.
To bolded 4: anecdote, with all the fallacies that pertain to it
To bolded 5: This aligns closely with what I perceive as animist dogma. Being "organic" appeals to my spirit, but my databases do not record a useful fitness/prosperity trend that aligns with 20th-/21st-century "organic" practices. But the word means "buy Whole Foods common" to me; who am I to reject profit from collective stupidity?
To bolded 6: I like bees. I want to see them thrive. My sympathy here doesn't do a thing to make this complete warm&fuzzy red herring a legitimate part of the rational argument I am seeking on the points I have raised.

So the choice is binary:
1) provide facts, or
2) I dismiss what seems to be an argument as actually not being an argument, which would of course render further discussion fruitless.

 

[cannabineer]

Don't get me wrong, I think in the beginning GM plants were seen as a legitimate way to increase food production for a starving world. My thought is that business found a way to modify plants to make them a lot of money too! On the surface that wouldn't be a bad thing, in reality they sued a lot of people for various reasons and sold a shit ton of pesticides and herbicides that they made as well as mountains of fertilizers. So what started out as a great idea for the world blossomed into big business and lawyers. See it your way, I can't change that any less than I can make a racist like a person of color.

This reads to me as pure pseudo-argument. Actual argument works from a basis of facts. What you present begins and ends with dogma, thus pseudo-argument. Without clear references to the claimed core phenomena, I am losing interest in what amounts to a discussion of religion.

 

[cannabineer]

Stop trolling then, if you need clarification beyond what I've said you will have to do your own research. I continue daily with mine. I listen both sides of a discussion and base my beliefs on the side that resonates with me. I don't do it for you or anyone else. If you don't mind Monsanto seed and all their chemicals go ahead and use them. I'm not gonna try and tell you what to do. If you like the way the current world of weed is going then we have little more to discuss on the matter. I am civil of course and will continue to remain that way.

What sort of intellect portrays a request for fact as trolling?
And, what sort of honest broker says "do your own research"? That is the oldest tool of all con men ever.

But I can do civil too. Happy Holidays, and may your faith sustain you.

 

[cannabineer]

Back at cha, to be honest, The (data) would take some time to gather, it is there. However, with any data, skewing bias is always a factor and as a result we end up going around in circles anyway. We won't be making any meaningful change even with our discussion or any data gathered. So the effort isn't justified.

You do not need to gather it; merely c&p the bibliography. You have one if your argument is actually researched.
So long as it comes from primary sources, your "sour grapes" argument about bias will be minimized. This makes me look on your "going around in circles" suggestion as disingenuous, and as an insult to my capacity for intellectual honesty. Sort of like that sly swipe about racism earlier. You seem to want to discredit me on emotional grounds, which would be scored by most as a "win" while never becoming an actual argument. Good luck with that; I went to grad school. Those folks are the masters at that sort of Jesuitry.

Bottom line is: claims were made about the detriment Big Ag brings to farmers of weed and farmers in general. I am questioning these, as they tend to be rallying points for dogma. Our exchange confirms this. No data = no argument.
No facts = no argument. No willingness to provide facts = Jonestown. I decline the beverage.

 

[bearded.beaver]

@Sgt_Dubie Nice another Canadian. Help spread the word about growing your own.

 

[bearded.beaver]

@Old Thcool and @cannabineer you guys just high jacked this poor guys thread it's his first post and he has you guys bickering. Seriously

 

[cannabineer]

@Old Thcool and @cannabineer you guys just high jacked this poor guys thread it's his first post and he has you guys bickering. Seriously

1) @Sgt_Dubie did not recruit me to this thread. So your suggestion that "he has us bickering" suggests a dynamic of which I haven't been apprised.
2)My original request for clarification was to a third party who decided not to answer. @Old Thcool engaged instead..
3) I find it remarkable that you equate his emoting with my requests for data, and call them equally "bickering". This makes me contemplate your dog in this hunt, and what it might be.

To make a complaint effective, ensure that it is accurate and combed free of the classic fallacies. Happy Holidays.

 

[Old Thcool]

Yeah sorry my bad, I apologize can I remove my shit? Consider it done.

 

[Blue back]

100% legal in Michigan now for anyone that is a state resident. Can grow 12 plants inside or outside and possess 10 oz of dried cured bud. I do believe that's the most in the US. I'm a med patient so I could grow 12 since 2009. Now any Tom Dick or Harry can. Little excessive but I'm not complaining.lol

 

[Old Thcool]

100% legal in Michigan now for anyone that is a state resident. Can grow 12 plants inside or outside and possess 10 oz of dried cured bud. I do believe that's the most in the US. I'm a med patient so I could grow 12 since 2009. Now any Tom Dick or Harry can. Little excessive but I'm not complaining.lol

Hope your plants don’t make more than an ounce each lol! What would you do with surplus? I wonder? Compost it? Hahaha!

 

[Old Thcool]

Yes. I need concrete, established, documented examples of
1) Monsanto's GM crops being bad, and
2) a quantitative assessment of the status and trends in Cannabis genetics.

Without such information, I might as well be at a tent revival. That combines two of my biggest peeves: dogma and camping.

 

[Old Thcool]

And so it begins! Calling all lawyers!

 

[Blue back]

Hope your plants don’t make more than an ounce each lol! What would you do with surplus? I wonder? Compost it? Hahaha!

That's simple. When it's curing it's not counted as usable smoke. it's not you're 10 oz is until you say it's ready to be your 10 oz. Hell I could say it's curing for as long as I want. That's how everyone does it here in Michigan. Medical you could only have 2 1/2 dried cured oz's.

 

[Old Thcool]

You know it’s interesting, here in Canada we just semi legalized weed, as y’all well know. It is apparently legal to have over an ounce on ya and 4 plants per household? No mention of how much weed we can store?
One thing for sure, you may NOT have weed or paraphernalia within reach of a driver lest ye don’t mind a hefty fine or roadside suspension!