Seattle Minimum Wage not working out...

TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
Tesla is creating 1000's of good paying jobs & there are plenty of robots involved....8)
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Pull his dick out of your mouth for God's sake.

Tesla has laid off about 9 percent of its employees as part of a “company-wide restructuring,” according to an email sent to staff by CEO Elon Musk this morning. The cuts, which account for more than 3,000 jobs, will not affect the company's continued effort to ramp up production of the Model 3 sedan, Musk said.
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That is from June of this year.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/12/17454004/elon-musk-tesla-layoffs-restructuring
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Lucky Luke said:
Wait. So people who earn more money spend more money thus creating more jobs? Who knew?.....
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That only holds true to a certain point.

If the lower class earns more money, they spend more money which creates more jobs because the ratio of lower class to upper class are about 1,000,000 to 1 on average.

But if the upper class earn more money they typically don't spend it. They can't. They already own everything. For them, it's bragging rights more than anything else. What's more, that money lasts them through anything, so if a recession hits, they simply lay off everybody and ride the storm out...a luxury the lower class doesn't have.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
That only holds true to a certain point.

If the lower class earns more money, they spend more money which creates more jobs because the ratio of lower class to upper class are about 1,000,000 to 1 on average.

But if the upper class earn more money they typically don't spend it. They can't. They already own everything. For them, it's bragging rights more than anything else. What's more, that money lasts them through anything, so if a recession hits, they simply lay off everybody and ride the storm out...a luxury the lower class doesn't have.
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So let's keep voting for neoliberal establishment Democrats to fix it :shock:
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
just raising the minimum wage doesn't do much to help the workers on the line. the price of gas, groceries, rent...everything will go up, and your "raise" will get eaten up, and more....
the real problem is in attitudes. there is entirely too much "management" in most businesses, people getting paid for doing essentially nothing, and the people who do the real work, make the real products, earn real money for the company....get paid the least. get no insurance. get no vacation time. in short...the people who support the whole show get shit on, while the useless "managers" get everything the workers should be getting, for doing pretty much nothing......
don't get me wrong, i know administration is necessary, and that that part of the business is important. i also know that most businesses could run just fine with half their management standing in unemployment lines looking for real jobs, and the money the business was spending on them distributed to the people who actually earn it
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
As opposed to what we have now? Yes.
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Going from worse to bad won't fix anything. It will make it not so bad for a slightly higher number of people and remain shitty for everyone else, hence the political swing cycle. What happens when people actually get representation that fight for them is majorities for decades like the Democratic party enjoyed after WW2. Third wave Democrats and neoliberals won't get you that.
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
That only holds true to a certain point.

If the lower class earns more money, they spend more money which creates more jobs because the ratio of lower class to upper class are about 1,000,000 to 1 on average.

But if the upper class earn more money they typically don't spend it. They can't. They already own everything. For them, it's bragging rights more than anything else. What's more, that money lasts them through anything, so if a recession hits, they simply lay off everybody and ride the storm out...a luxury the lower class doesn't have.
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yes I know but we are talking about the min wage..
Also known as the trickle up effect,
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
just raising the minimum wage doesn't do much to help the workers on the line. the price of gas, groceries, rent...everything will go up, and your "raise" will get eaten up,
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Which is why min wage should try to keep up with inflation. We have a minimum wage tribunal that recommends an adjustment if it falls behind to much. The min wage people are exploitable and they need protection.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
just raising the minimum wage doesn't do much to help the workers on the line. the price of gas, groceries, rent...everything will go up, and your "raise" will get eaten up, and more....
the real problem is in attitudes. there is entirely too much "management" in most businesses, people getting paid for doing essentially nothing, and the people who do the real work, make the real products, earn real money for the company....get paid the least. get no insurance. get no vacation time. in short...the people who support the whole show get shit on, while the useless "managers" get everything the workers should be getting, for doing pretty much nothing......
don't get me wrong, i know administration is necessary, and that that part of the business is important. i also know that most businesses could run just fine with half their management standing in unemployment lines looking for real jobs, and the money the business was spending on them distributed to the people who actually earn it
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There is no evidence to support the theory that raising the minimum wage WILL cause inflation. Since 1980, we increased the minimum wage many times with no associative effect on inflation.

https://medium.com/@discomfiting/debunking-if-you-raise-the-minimum-wage-it-will-cause-inflation-c0db32f579f8

There is plenty of evidence that raising the minimum wage helps local economies more than that tax cut given to corporations last year. I say give them the raise.

I hear you about managers. I will say that a good manager is worth every dime but many are just dead weight. IMO, the biggest problem is cronyism and old boy network that fills the top jobs with MBA money managers rather than people who know the businesses from the bottom-up. They just treat employees as if they were an expense rather than an asset. To their way of thinking it's the employees who are too many.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
it's not really the minimum wage changing....it's the median wage changing. not the same thing i know, but that's what triggers the effect.
most people make more than the minimum wage, which is only 7.25 an hour....and the ones that don't are just pulled along by the rip tide....
when the local plant gives workers a raise, when the local mine gives people a raise, then other businesses in the area have to pay a little more, too, or risk losing their employs to the better paying job...once that ripple stops and everyone is making within a reasonable amount of what everyone else is making...things cost more...groceries go up, gas goes up, everything goes up, and you're lucky if the median income increase is enough to cover the increase....it's quite easy to lose ground....the people who are actually making the minimum wage are screwed over even harder.....they were behind to begin with
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Since 1980, we increased the minimum wage many times with no associative effect on inflation.
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in 1980 it was 3.35...now it's 7.25......
if you work 40 hours a week at 7.25 that's 290 dollars before taxes...call it 250 take home.....if you work 52 weeks a year, thats 13,000.
the poverty line is 12,140 for a single person....so good news...if you work 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, you stay 860 dollars ahead of poverty.........
this is using 1996 dollars as a constant unit...in 1981 the 3.35 minimum was worth 5.78 adjusted dollars..in 91 the 4.25 minimum was worth 4.90 adjusted dollars...2001 the 5.15 minimum was worth 4.56....2015 7.25 is worth 4.80 adjusted dollars...
https://www.infoplease.com/business-finance/labor-and-employment/annual-federal-minimum-wage-rates-1955-2015
i don't call that an overall improvement
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
just raising the minimum wage doesn't do much to help the workers on the line. the price of gas, groceries, rent...everything will go up, and your "raise" will get eaten up, and more....
the real problem is in attitudes. there is entirely too much "management" in most businesses, people getting paid for doing essentially nothing, and the people who do the real work, make the real products, earn real money for the company....get paid the least. get no insurance. get no vacation time. in short...the people who support the whole show get shit on, while the useless "managers" get everything the workers should be getting, for doing pretty much nothing......
don't get me wrong, i know administration is necessary, and that that part of the business is important. i also know that most businesses could run just fine with half their management standing in unemployment lines looking for real jobs, and the money the business was spending on them distributed to the people who actually earn it
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So NOT giving minimum wage workers raises is going to do anything to redress this imbalance? o_O
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
In 1980, people making the minimum wage were paid more than people today (when wages are adjusted for inflation):




The top 2-3% has accumulated almost ALL the profits made from the outstanding growth in productivity since 1980. That would include the managers you are talking about. Everybody else's incomes have stagnated if not gone down. As shown by that inflation-adjusted chart, wages have gone down for the lowest wage earners. Seattle is an example that trashes the argument that a $15 minimum wage is the train wreck that the GOP says it is.

Oregon is planning to increase the minimum wage to 15.50 in the Portland metropolitan area by 2022 and staging increases between now and then. Outside the Portland district, the minimum wage is set to go up to $13.33 by 2022. The minimum is about $10/hr right now. Personally, I'd prefer if we didn't differentiate between Portland and all other areas in the state but that's the legislation that passed a few years ago.

It's time for a re-balancing of wages in this country and let's start with putting money in the pockets of people who will circulate those dollars locally.
 
SB85

SB85

Well-Known Member
It's been past time to start giving the real force behind these companies some respect in terms of wages/benefits. 100% bull shit when the ones doing the labor get peanuts while the fat cats get tons of goodies.
 
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racerboy71

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
Roger A. Shrubber said:
it's not really the minimum wage changing....it's the median wage changing. not the same thing i know, but that's what triggers the effect.
most people make more than the minimum wage, which is only 7.25 an hour....and the ones that don't are just pulled along by the rip tide....
when the local plant gives workers a raise, when the local mine gives people a raise, then other businesses in the area have to pay a little more, too, or risk losing their employs to the better paying job...once that ripple stops and everyone is making within a reasonable amount of what everyone else is making...things cost more...groceries go up, gas goes up, everything goes up, and you're lucky if the median income increase is enough to cover the increase....it's quite easy to lose ground....the people who are actually making the minimum wage are screwed over even harder.....they were behind to begin with
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doesn't the cost of living go up yearly, irregardless of whether people get a raise or not? i fail to understand why people making more to help with the cost of living is a bad thing..
secondly, if you look at the big mac index, you'd think that a big mac would cost more in states where the minimal wage were higher.. california's minimal wage is higher than pa's, yet some how the price of the big mac in califonia remains cheaper than the price for the same big mac in Pa.
O'Donnell listed the price of Big Macs in various cities around the country: "In Albany, New York, where the minimum wage is $7.25, a Big Mac costs $3.99. In Riverside, California, a Big Mac also costs $3.99, but the California minimum wage is 75 cents higher." He noted San Francisco's higher minimum wage at $10.55, adding "McDonald's still wants to do business there.
Brn with link
 
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