First Living Soil Grow - Plants Not Happy

[jHands]

Greetings. First grow. Sealed room. 78 degrees, 65-70% RH. Living soil based on coot mix. 4x8 soil bed under ProGrowTech LED’s with spectrums dialed in for veg. The soil sat outside and cooked for 30 days, but is continually giving off co2 indoors forcing me to vent rooms to keep the levels at 1500 or lower. I believe this is because it didn’t have the required ambient temperatures for the microbial populations to get set up. The plants still aren’t happy, and I’m not sure why. They’re all doing different things. Some of them, the new growth is tacoing. Some of them, the edges are turning brown/gold and crispy.

Any insight is greatly appreciated. These are good genetics, and I’d rather not lose the crop.

 

[IIReignManII]

Have you checked pH?

 

[jHands]

I was told checking pH with living soil is a moot point. Is this not true? Based on a lot of research, that’s the conclusion I arrived at.

 

[ShLUbY]

Have you checked pH?

that looks just like ozone burn. it's likely co2 burn. keep the ppms down and they'll be fine. they take a little time to recover from that. i've ozone burnt my plants before, was a few days before they started looking right again. obviously the burnt leaves will not heal, but it's ok, they're still functioning.

i don't notice any pH problems with your plants. pH is important to check if something is off, but in this case, it's definitely the CO2 excess.

don't worry, you'll be fine and so will they

drop the RH a bit if you can like 50-60, they'r already stressed, no sense in making it harder for them to transpire.

 

[jHands]

Ok will do. Thank you for the info. You seem to be a well established guy here. Thank you for your continued efforts to spread the hobby.

I’ll give them a few days to recover. Should I plant my cover crop today? Wait?

It should be mentioned that only a cluster of 3 of these plants in close proximity are exhibiting the brown and gold curling leaves. Most of them are tacoing, however.

 

[ShLUbY]

Ok will do. Thank you for the info. You seem to be a well established guy here. Thank you for your continued efforts to spread the hobby.

I’ll give them a few days to recover. Should I plant my cover crop today? Wait?

It should be mentioned that only a cluster of 3 of these plants in close proximity are exhibiting the brown and gold curling leaves. Most of them are tacoing, however.

you're welcome man. this is a way of life for me! I love to grow things. cannabis, vegetables, gourmet mushrooms... it's all fun

go ahead and plant your cover crop. something else to help scrub out that CO2 haha.

 

[Wetdog]

I was told checking pH with living soil is a moot point. Is this not true? Based on a lot of research, that’s the conclusion I arrived at.

It's only true if the qualifer (that is almost never mentioned), is met. That qualifer is, "In a well buffered soil". That is, limed to an acceptable pH range when constructing a soil mix.

The whole statement "In a well buffered living soil, checking pH is a moot point" is true, but your pH needs to be right from the git go. This especially holds true in a peat based mix since peat moss has such a low pH to begin with.

I also agree with ShLUbY that it doesn't look pH related, but excess CO2.

Wet

 

[jHands]

Hey Shluby. Been researching things a bit. Wondering if this is nutrient burn or nitrogen toxicity from the soil being too hot? I’ve had the co2 levels under control and at 1500 or less for a couple days now and the crunchy leaves are still spreading. Thoughts?

 

[jHands]

It's only true if the qualifer (that is almost never mentioned), is met. That qualifer is, "In a well buffered soil". That is, limed to an acceptable pH range when constructing a soil mix.

The whole statement "In a well buffered living soil, checking pH is a moot point" is true, but your pH needs to be right from the git go. This especially holds true in a peat based mix since peat moss has such a low pH to begin with.

I also agree with ShLUbY that it doesn't look pH related, but excess CO2.

Wet

Thanks for the reply. If it were excess co2, would it not stop progressing once I created some ventilation to bring the levels down? It’s continously progressing. Also, I didn’t add any lime to my mix. Should I get a soil pH and top dress with some for next watering? How hard is it to get a soil pH with strips etc?

 

[jHands]

Base mix
1 part Redworm NW Worm castings AAA or premium are both good
1 part spagnum peat moss
1 part pumice

Minerals (per cubic foot)
2 cups cascade minerals (basalt)
1 cup oyster shell flour
1 cup gypsum

Amendments (per cubic foot)
1 cup kelp
1 cup ground malted barley
1/2 cup Crustacean meal
1/2 cup karanja/neem mix

This is the soil mix I used. What are the chances i need to amend the bed with lime? I’m going to hit up the store today for some litmus strips.

 

[Wetdog]

Oyster shell flour is a liming agent as long as it's about the consistancy of actual flour and not the stuff sold for chickens, That is pretty much useless and takes years to begin to break down. Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3), is hard stuff and it's all about the 'mesh size', (how finely ground up it is), and much more surface area. About the consistancy of All Purpose Flour is good and some is as fine as talcum powder. Gypsum is Calcium sulfate and has very little effect on pH, but a good Ca source along with some sulfur.

The test strips are fine for a 'ballpark' pH check, I use them for a quick check way more than breaking out the meter. Simply mix equal amounts of the soil mix and distilled water in a clean container, let sit for 1/2 hr or so and then dip the strip. I really like a heavy duty milkshake straw to get like a core sample of the mix and a small glass jar with lid to keep air out while the soil/water mix sits. As long as you're between 6 and 7 you're good. In a organic soil the pH constantly fluctuates, but is usually between 6.4 and 6.8.

The mix looks good although *I* run a scootch more aeration. The bit more is in the form of pine bark mulch (~10%), run through a 1/2" screen. It's a bit of aeration and a bit of hugelkulture for containers and has served me well for decades.

Easy enough to amend the bed with lime, but first let's see if it's even needed. BTW, the crustacean meal is a slow release form of CaCO3, but likely hasn't even started to release yet. I use it also, but don't count on the Ca for a year or so.

Wet

 

[jHands]

Oyster shell flour is a liming agent as long as it's about the consistancy of actual flour and not the stuff sold for chickens, That is pretty much useless and takes years to begin to break down. Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3), is hard stuff and it's all about the 'mesh size', (how finely ground up it is), and much more surface area. About the consistancy of All Purpose Flour is good and some is as fine as talcum powder. Gypsum is Calcium sulfate and has very little effect on pH, but a good Ca source along with some sulfur.

The test strips are fine for a 'ballpark' pH check, I use them for a quick check way more than breaking out the meter. Simply mix equal amounts of the soil mix and distilled water in a clean container, let sit for 1/2 hr or so and then dip the strip. I really like a heavy duty milkshake straw to get like a core sample of the mix and a small glass jar with lid to keep air out while the soil/water mix sits. As long as you're between 6 and 7 you're good. In a organic soil the pH constantly fluctuates, but is usually between 6.4 and 6.8.

The mix looks good although *I* run a scootch more aeration. The bit more is in the form of pine bark mulch (~10%), run through a 1/2" screen. It's a bit of aeration and a bit of hugelkulture for containers and has served me well for decades.

Easy enough to amend the bed with lime, but first let's see if it's even needed. BTW, the crustacean meal is a slow release form of CaCO3, but likely hasn't even started to release yet. I use it also, but don't count on the Ca for a year or so.

Wet

Thanks for your knowledge. What would you recommend as an amending schedule for this to get things rolling? And how long do you think it’s completely cooked? It’s evident it’s still cooking due to elevated co2 in the room.

 

[Wetdog]

II wouldn't be doing ANY amending yet. It's still cooking and will need to settle down some to see just where you're at.

Do your pH strips just to see where you are right now more or less, do your cover crop if you wish, but give the soil several weeks if not a month to stabilize.

Remember, in organics, patience is not only a virtue, it's a prerequisite.

If you don't have a worm bin, starting one is about the most important thing you can do for any organic growing. There are no bagged castings no matter the cost that can compare with what you can produce yourself, even with the most basic setup. ShULbY will back me up on this. Make it a top priority.

Wet

 

[jHands]

So what’s going to happen with the plants already in the soil? Should I just bank on them being a loss?

 

[ShLUbY]

So what’s going to happen with the plants already in the soil? Should I just bank on them being a loss?

just give them time man. when you get a cut, or a burn, does it heal in a matter of days? no... it takes time. stop freakin out! they will be ok

EDIT: also if you want a sample of your pH, take 5g of your soil, and 30ml of RO water. put them in a vile that you can shake vigorously for 5 min or so. then take a coffee filter (pre rinse with RO) and filter the water into a glass. take the pH of the filtered water. it'll at least give you an idea of where your soil is it.

 

[jHands]

Update: some girls are looking very healthy. Others are progressively getting worse. Even the healthy girls are showing some brown spots on the leaves which is how the plant in the center of this photo started. Wondering if this could be root rot and if it could possibly be spreading around this half of the bed?

 

[Amazon Blaze]

You will only have root rot if you are watering too much, Your soil does look pretty wet in all your pictures. As they are still small they will not need much water. Just need to keep it moist for the bacteria to thrive.

 

[ShLUbY]

you should definitely get a mulch on that bed. slow the evaporation of water down. as for the necrosis of the leaves... it's hard to quantify what is really going on there with your soil's microbial populations still developing. i see some good looking new growth on some of those plants. if you have proper aeration materials in the soil, i'm doubting that it's root rot. I think the mix just hasn't reached its equilibrium yet. keep making observations on these plants and you may want to entertain the idea of getting some back up clones ready to go if these go south.

 

[jHands]

you should definitely get a mulch on that bed. slow the evaporation of water down. as for the necrosis of the leaves... it's hard to quantify what is really going on there with your soil's microbial populations still developing. i see some good looking new growth on some of those plants. if you have proper aeration materials in the soil, i'm doubting that it's root rot. I think the mix just hasn't reached its equilibrium yet. keep making observations on these plants and you may want to entertain the idea of getting some back up clones ready to go if these go south.

I planted my crimson clover yesterday. Should I mulch over top of that or wait for it to grow in?

Yes there’s some really nice new growth but some of these girls are looking really tired.

 

[ShLUbY]

I planted my crimson clover yesterday. Should I mulch over top of that or wait for it to grow in?

Yes there’s some really nice new growth but some of these girls are looking really tired.

oh yeah i forgot you were planting a cover... haha nevermind