Once and for all.. L.E.D or H.I.D ??!

tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
I've seen KILLER grows that have utilized fluorescent stoplight fixtures and regular, old tubes....just have to place them close to your plants and prune properly. But that was also in the "old" days when there were LOTS of landrace strains going around that were always full of seeds. As you know, growing from seed means the plants will be kinda preprogrammed to expect the kind of light it's used to. So, if you get a Mexican Sativa seed that came from plants grown outdoors in Mexico and you want to grow it under a different spectrum, like a fluorescent shop light, then it might take a generation or so for subsequent seeds to adjust to the new color and begin growing optimally. Marijuana is very adaptable and it will grow well under a lot of different kinds of lights.

It's my personal opinion that, while light builders are building lights with spectrums to try and suit the plants, the plants are trying to adapt to suit the spectrums of the lights, too. For decades and decades, plant genetics have been being developed under HID lights because that was the spectrum that a lot of the old landrace strains grew well under of all the then-available lighting options. And I remember, even back then, if you went out and bought an HID light, you were immediately suspect. For the sake of not raising any unneeded attention, small-time growers would just settle for fluorescent shop lights....and, like I say, killer quality bud came from those lights, too. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that some of the best weed I've ever smoked in my life came from under fluorescent lights. But that's not to suggest it was the light that was responsible. It was much, much more quality of the genetic starting material.
 
Chip Green

Chip Green

Well-Known Member
HydroRed said:
I deal with some crazy weather here in Michigan
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Right now, here in my neck of the woods in Da U.P. of MI, it is currently -12 degrees F..... My DIY LED rigs kick absolute ass for most of the calendar year, but right now, without the CMH running in conjunction, the LED would be pretty much useless.....Even with the insulated rooms, and venting from the furnace....
Its all about the right tool for the job.....
 
Diesel0889

Diesel0889

Well-Known Member
redeyedfrog said:
If you look at companies like fluence who are actual real legitimate LED lighting companies that invest millions into R&D you'll find they are getting big contracts with both commercial cannabis growers
And and traditional commercial growers
The problem is in the cannabis industry theres still lots of cowboys and snake oil salesmen running around and selling inferior quality gear and promising everything delivering not much.
But if you look at costs like HVAC, water,
And nutrients loss due to overwatering the costs come right down. Yeah the LED market innovators are passing up the old tried and true stuff but you gotta invest big to get those big results.
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Led companys like fluence, hlg and timber etc. Are the real deal and I have no doubt in the next 5 years they will outdo hps, possibly by a good amount as tech improves. I will say this though. I can pull 2+ elbows out of my 4x4 or 5x5 with my spyder x plus or my hid 1000. My fluence does not heat up worth shit so I have a 1000 watt heater running in my tent 24/7 and with my 1000w hid only at night did I need it to keep environment perfect. My fluence has edged out my se 1000 hid but when I ran de1000 I got about the same yield or a tad more with the de 1000. Close from any of them. The biggest factor to me is the environment being perfect. Everyone is so stuck on lighting etc that they often forget all the other things that go into a grow. If you dont have the money or just starting buy Hps/mh or cmh. If you have the money buy whatever makes you happy. At them moment in running my fluence with 1000 watts of heater, exhaust etc. For veg and sometimes flower a 315 cmh. Both do the job well. Imo if you dont spend big on led you get shit results ( I have tried a few ). If you spend 1400+ you will do ok, if you dont have it buy hid or cmh. I'm not a pro on led nor do I work for fluence etc. Just my opinion but led has come far and is def a good option if you have the money. Hid will not go away any time soon and for good reason, it's been "the golden standard" for how long??

That said I'd buy the newest fluence spyder all day or a hps or cmh if it fits my needs at the time better. If you grow great bud I dont give damn what you grew it under... way to much arguing about it.. a good led is great and so is any hid that's been doing the job for a billion years.. this will never end.. all the shit LEDs should take a hike and let the good ones shine. Part of the reason LEDs get a bad name still. BOTH CAN BE GOOD! Run what floats your boat. Happy growing!
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Diesel0889 said:
Everyone is so stuck on lighting etc that they often forget all the other things that go into a grow.
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Exactly! That $700 LED is worthless when people post in the Marijuana Plant section with nasty looking plants. LED's, HID's, CMH, T5's can all grow great weed. But that doesn't even matter if the grower doesn't know what they're doing and has to ask for help fixing their plants after they've messed them up.

I have a 4 ft 4 bulb HO T5 in my 2 x 4 veg tent. It doesn't give me the coverage I want. I'm going to do a DIY and add some LED strips because it makes the most sense and I'm not anti LED. I use what works best for my needs and is the best bang for the buck..
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
tstick said:
I've seen KILLER grows that have utilized fluorescent stoplight fixtures and regular, old tubes....just have to place them close to your plants and prune properly. But that was also in the "old" days when there were LOTS of landrace strains going around that were always full of seeds. As you know, growing from seed means the plants will be kinda preprogrammed to expect the kind of light it's used to. So, if you get a Mexican Sativa seed that came from plants grown outdoors in Mexico and you want to grow it under a different spectrum, like a fluorescent shop light, then it might take a generation or so for subsequent seeds to adjust to the new color and begin growing optimally. Marijuana is very adaptable and it will grow well under a lot of different kinds of lights.

It's my personal opinion that, while light builders are building lights with spectrums to try and suit the plants, the plants are trying to adapt to suit the spectrums of the lights, too. For decades and decades, plant genetics have been being developed under HID lights because that was the spectrum that a lot of the old landrace strains grew well under of all the then-available lighting options. And I remember, even back then, if you went out and bought an HID light, you were immediately suspect. For the sake of not raising any unneeded attention, small-time growers would just settle for fluorescent shop lights....and, like I say, killer quality bud came from those lights, too. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that some of the best weed I've ever smoked in my life came from under fluorescent lights. But that's not to suggest it was the light that was responsible. It was much, much more quality of the genetic starting material.
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To the bolded: I do not think that there is any sort of adaptation by exposure. What I think is more operative is that the plant has genetically-set light requirements, and indoor growers kept at it until they got good results. It is possible to get good results with the old T8 shop lights if you surround the plants, and other bits of acquired wisdom.

But I do think the plants did not adapt to artificial lighting. Unsuitable phenotypes may have been selected out, but that is a different thing.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
redivider said:
now you just talking to talk......

there's an active youtube community that tasks itself with finding all of this out.

This isn't just marketing shindings and pseudo-science anymore.... PAR sensors are available now and people have bought them and the numbers are out - LEDs are coming for the grow industry, it is inevitable..

Here's an example of a comparison for 'small' grow lights:

150W HPS - PPFD output - 157. Cost - $200. Consumption - 165W
100W T5s - PPFD - 75 Cost - $100 - Consumption 102 W
Mars300 LED - PPFD - 124 - Cost - $71 Consumption - 121W
QB 120 4K - PPFD - 117 Cost $97 Consumption 61W.

Quantum board LEDs have surpassed HID in PAR readings by a long shot and reduces consumption.

What LEDs don't have that HID does is the 'modular' design which allows for quick repairs when needed.

LEDs don't have that luxury but the tec has proven itself reliable - so much so that a lot of companies don't want to fill shelves with LED offerings because they know it is very likely the last bulb they'll sell that customer....





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I know initially ppfd seems like an accurate scale but believe ne when i say it is not.

You dont know what perfect spectrum for weed or any plants and neither do i which leaves ppfd wide open for abuse here and on scientific boards.

:-)
 
HydroRed

HydroRed

Well-Known Member
Chip Green said:
Right now, here in my neck of the woods in Da U.P. of MI, it is currently -12 degrees F..... My DIY LED rigs kick absolute ass for most of the calendar year, but right now, without the CMH running in conjunction, the LED would be pretty much useless.....Even with the insulated rooms, and venting from the furnace....
Its all about the right tool for the job.....
Click to expand...
Right tools for the job, and never start a project on an empty stomach.
yooper.png
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Growers have three great lights hid cmh led all as good as each other and all with just a big flaws.

If you try and make one the best the other two will shoot you down, this should tell you to stop asking or looking and get back to discussing light with the same love you show weed not the hate the market wants in ordee to make sales.

A fool is easily led, dont be that fool as theres a wealth of info here but none that makes one clearly better than the other :-)
 
gwheels

gwheels

Well-Known Member
I have one of each and i still cant make up my mind. :)
CMH/COB/SAMSUNG BOARD/STRIPS.


Your space will help decide. 3 x 3 tent use a 315 CMH for example unless you are height restricted. The light is about 8 inches taller than my samsung boards and strips

1 x 3 or 2 x 4 tent get a samsung board/strip or cob fixture.


They all work pretty damned good.
 
Couch_Lock

Couch_Lock

Well-Known Member
tstick said:
I've seen KILLER grows that have utilized fluorescent stoplight fixtures and regular, old tubes....just have to place them close to your plants and prune properly. But that was also in the "old" days when there were LOTS of landrace strains going around that were always full of seeds. As you know, growing from seed means the plants will be kinda preprogrammed to expect the kind of light it's used to. So, if you get a Mexican Sativa seed that came from plants grown outdoors in Mexico and you want to grow it under a different spectrum, like a fluorescent shop light, then it might take a generation or so for subsequent seeds to adjust to the new color and begin growing optimally. Marijuana is very adaptable and it will grow well under a lot of different kinds of lights.

It's my personal opinion that, while light builders are building lights with spectrums to try and suit the plants, the plants are trying to adapt to suit the spectrums of the lights, too. For decades and decades, plant genetics have been being developed under HID lights because that was the spectrum that a lot of the old landrace strains grew well under of all the then-available lighting options. And I remember, even back then, if you went out and bought an HID light, you were immediately suspect. For the sake of not raising any unneeded attention, small-time growers would just settle for fluorescent shop lights....and, like I say, killer quality bud came from those lights, too. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that some of the best weed I've ever smoked in my life came from under fluorescent lights. But that's not to suggest it was the light that was responsible. It was much, much more quality of the genetic starting material.
Click to expand...
Well stated, T.

If the grower can recognize how the plant is doing at any given point, and how to address problems that may come up they will succeed.
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
My answer would be "It depends"
I clone/germinate with an LED strip
I veg with CFL in winter and LED strips in summer.
I flower with a 600W HPS all year. I would like a LED Flower light for summer. Concerns me that a lot of the LED growers on RIU seem to be continually upgrading. I don't think ive moved my ballast since I plugged it in...
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Lucky Luke said:
My answer would be "It depends"
I clone/germinate with an LED strip
I veg with CFL in winter and LED strips in summer.
I flower with a 600W HPS all year. I would like a LED Flower light for summer. Concerns me that a lot of the LED growers on RIU seem to be continually upgrading. I don't think ive moved my ballast since I plugged it in...
Click to expand...
Yeah I think that LED becomes more of a hobby for some than growing. Bleeding edge tech. Always trying to keep up. Biggest change to make with HID is a new bulb.
 
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