QB96 Elite V2 w/ SSTX heatsink question

[Randomblame]

i m thinking exaclty same about you, strip or board with nichia 5000°k + Osram Square deep-reds should (dimable) should be the perfect combo! i made strip from cutter with those nichia + xqe660 and also nichia 2000k + cree xd16 3500k and will tell you how its work in few month when i will install them
i reallly neeed to get a provider even on alibaba to get those nichia optisolis 5000k 97 cri , do you know where can i buy them?? ( not cutter, im from europe and its realllly tooo expensive the tax from them :'( , the quality is amazing but tooo expensiv tax!)
i found the osram square deep red on mouser :
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OSRAM-Opto-Semiconductors/GH-CSSRM224-VMVO-1?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvVL5Kk7ZYykfR0dfvFIxRBqA8XDCqXG1bBMRD%2b7V%2bzFQ==
but not the nichia
can someone help me to find them?

and what about the LUXEON 3535L HE Plus ??? loooks amazing! espacialy the
LUXEON 3535L HE PLUS 4000k 70cri @200lm/w !




https://www.digikey.fr/en/datasheets/lumileds/lumileds-ds203-pdf

Directly from Nichia. Go to their website and search for Nichia Partners in your country. 13-19ct depending on order volumen. Let me ask a friend. Maybe I can give you a link tomorrow.

Those lumileds are pretty good but the 200lm/w is with 65mA or 0,2w. The nice thing is maximum for HE plus diodes is 300mA, that's almost 1w and you would still get ~160-170lm/w. Nice diodes for high powered boards and I believe QB96 use them already.(together with red and deepreds)
I really like the 2200°k/CRI80 spectrum in the CRI80 SPD chart but its unfortunately not mentioned in the performance list.
CRI90 efficiency looks also pretty good. If all the spectrums are available I would mix them to create something special like the tunable Blux Vesta strips. Depends on which spectrums and CRI's are already available.

Nichia's V3F1 is even more efficient at 65mA compared to these lumileds and is also available in CRI70, 80 and 90. Efficiency is comparable to top bin LM301b(240lm/w in 5000°k/CRI80) and typical efficiency should be a tad better(claims Nichia).
Why not use Nichia's most efficient whites(also up to 240lm/w) + Osram's Oslon Square? Would be an almost unbeatable combi efficiency wise and if you mix lets say ⅔ 4000°k/CRI80 and ⅓ deepred you would probably end up with a 3500°k/CRI90 spectrum. Depending on drive current probably up to 3μMol/J doable.
Do you plan to create your own strips or boards?

 

[grotbags]

Yeah, the hurricaneX needs a little 10$ extension board to work with 10v PWM Meanwell's. (stevesled has it)
Only HLG-320 and above can be dimmed to off for the smaller ones you would need an additional relay to switch them off. But that's a driver limitation so its the same with the more expensive controllers.

Gogreen is almost the same and if its still the same rev. it also needs such extension board for 10v PWM compatibility. And believe me, vegaswinner is not the easiest person to work with. He was member of this forum and many remember him and his permanent whining.

ok thanks for the heads up regarding vegaswinner.

do you have any experience with inventronics drivers?, i see they do a programmable one that has a few timer functions built in. can these be used to do 12/12 ect without additional controllers?.

i see hlg is using one in their hlg elite 360 but they list it as 370watt light does anybody know which model they use? i can find a 320w and a 480w but not 360/370w.

they could be perfect for my build cause i could run 3 qb96's at 120w each off each one (they way i will build the light is 5 rows of 3 qb96's), rather than only 2 of a meanwell 320.

 

[grisbi]

Directly from Nichia. Go to their website and search for Nichia Partners in your country. 13-19ct depending on order volumen. Let me ask a friend. Maybe I can give you a link tomorrow.

Those lumileds are pretty good but the 200lm/w is with 65mA or 0,2w. The nice thing is maximum for HE plus diodes is 300mA, that's almost 1w and you would still get ~160-170lm/w. Nice diodes for high powered boards and I believe QB96 use them already.(together with red and deepreds)
I really like the 2200°k/CRI80 spectrum in the CRI80 SPD chart but its unfortunately not mentioned in the performance list.
CRI90 efficiency looks also pretty good. If all the spectrums are available I would mix them to create something special like the tunable Blux Vesta strips. Depends on which spectrums and CRI's are already available.

Nichia's V3F1 is even more efficient at 65mA compared to these lumileds and is also available in CRI70, 80 and 90. Efficiency is comparable to top bin LM301b(240lm/w in 5000°k/CRI80) and typical efficiency should be a tad better(claims Nichia).
Why not use Nichia's most efficient whites(also up to 240lm/w) + Osram's Oslon Square? Would be an almost unbeatable combi efficiency wise and if you mix lets say ⅔ 4000°k/CRI80 and ⅓ deepred you would probably end up with a 3500°k/CRI90 spectrum. Depending on drive current probably up to 3μMol/J doable.
Do you plan to create your own strips or boards?

YES @Randomblame im about to create my own strip / board and cob solution for some growshop in europe, they are reaaalllly interessed and asked me to make theire a proper led solution for theire clients:
so i have to make 2ft/4ft strips , board also and autocob solution, and if im able to find a Nichia Partners to get some volume of thos nichia 757v3f1 i would be so glad randomblame!

you confort me on my zone, i was thinking the same think than you: nichia + osram square deep red/far red for the 3μMol/J contest
im gonna use them for the strips and board

im thinking about 4000k 80cri (but the 5000k97cri
tempts me a lot, but we wanna make good use of the biggest lm/w led and keep the penetration for the moment and add some clean red , so 4000k 70/80 cri are unbeatable on this field )
+ Osram Square deep-reds /far red & green ^^

2 channel:1) white led
2) colored led
2 fts strip will be like 40w of white led @50 or 75% of theire power, 70 x nichia 757 should be nice and 12 color led
board will be 2 channel also ( or maybee 3, but i dont want a too complicated stuff you know, just one white channel + one channel with 8x 660/ 730 and 4 green ( yes i insist, i wanna some greeen with reeed ^^ )

for the cob, im thinking about the luminus cxm32 cob , theire just sell out the gen 4 version, loookkk amazing!

what do you think about! it? i neeed to buy lot (a loooot ) of led separatly and them make them mount by a good factory i know.

ps: what do you think about those red led : NCSRE17A the" NCS17"
http://www.nichia.co.jp/en/product/led_product_data.html?type='NCSRE17A'

i just checked all last release from all led constructor, and those red led loook so promissing, and the green too has amazing spec, what do you think about?

 

[Or_Gro]

@Stephenj37826

Received the replacement 96s and pads, thank you.

I will be sending the three defective 96s back as soon as i figure out how to use these new pads.

The pads have clear plastic on both sides. One of those clear sides is thicker and comes off easily, the other, thinner clear plastic side doesn’t seem to detach.

So, four questions:

1. Is the thinner clear plastic cover supposed to remain attached to the pad?

2. If it is supposed to remain attached, which side goes against the circuit board: plastic or pad?

3. If the thinner clear cover is supposed to be removed, how do you recommend that be done?

4. Why isn’t there a set of instructions regarding proper application of the pads included with the replacement pads?

I’d prefer not to have to changeout these pads again.....

@Stephenj37826 @robincnn

Can you answer the questions please...

 

[Randomblame]

YES @Randomblame im about to create my own strip / board and cob solution for some growshop in europe, they are reaaalllly interessed and asked me to make theire a proper led solution for theire clients:
so i have to make 2ft/4ft strips , board also and autocob solution, and if im able to find a Nichia Partners to get some volume of thos nichia 757v3f1 i would be so glad randomblame!

you confort me on my zone, i was thinking the same think than you: nichia + osram square deep red/far red for the 3μMol/J contest
im gonna use them for the strips and board

im thinking about 4000k 80cri (but the 5000k97cri
tempts me a lot, but we wanna make good use of the biggest lm/w led and keep the penetration for the moment and add some clean red , so 4000k 70/80 cri are unbeatable on this field )
+ Osram Square deep-reds /far red & green ^^

2 channel:1) white led
2) colored led
2 fts strip will be like 40w of white led @50 or 75% of theire power, 70 x nichia 757 should be nice and 12 color led
board will be 2 channel also ( or maybee 3, but i dont want a too complicated stuff you know, just one white channel + one channel with 8x 660/ 730 and 4 green ( yes i insist, i wanna some greeen with reeed ^^ )

for the cob, im thinking about the luminus cxm32 cob , theire just sell out the gen 4 version, loookkk amazing!

what do you think about! it? i neeed to buy lot (a loooot ) of led separatly and them make them mount by a good factory i know.

ps: what do you think about those red led : NCSRE17A the" NCS17"
http://www.nichia.co.jp/en/product/led_product_data.html?type='NCSRE17A'

i just checked all last release from all led constructor, and those red led loook so promissing, and the green too has amazing spec, what do you think about?

Hmm! Coolwhite especially in CRI70 has already a lot of green. I would rather fill the valley around 485nm where white LED typically lack the most. Those wideband reds are really interesting cause of the high amount of light above 700nm. No need to add far-reds over the day and mixed with coolwhite/CRI80 it should end up with CRI90 too.
In the end it depends on their efficiency and true PPF's per watt. Datasheet only mentioned lumens like for normal red diodes and its probably needed to test and compare them. But I don't believe they are good enough..
Red/deep-red diodes usually produce twice as much photons per watt like a blue diode. So when you use blue base diodes to create red light that means you get only half that much photons compared to a red diode cuz the number of photons will stay almost the same(you will lose a few because of the conversion). The blue diode would need to be twice as much efficient to produce the same amount of photons. The spectrum looks really promissing but without more data I would not use them.
But Cree has a new XP-E2 deep-red diode in the pipeline reaching Osram Square efficiency and the price for Square diodes also finally comes down to "normal".
Osram fucks me up because you can not order top bins directly. You can only order groups like VMVO-1 and you'll get only one bin in this group but there are 3 flux bins between VM and VO and its a gamble which bin you'll get.
That's much better with Cree and I hope they will become available soon.

 

[grisbi]

Hmm! Coolwhite especially in CRI70 has already a lot of green. I would rather fill the valley around 485nm where white LED typically lack the most. Those wideband reds are really interesting cause of the high amount of light above 700nm. No need to add far-reds over the day and mixed with coolwhite/CRI80 it should end up with CRI90 too.
In the end it depends on their efficiency and true PPF's per watt. Datasheet only mentioned lumens like for normal red diodes and its probably needed to test and compare them. But I don't believe they are good enough..
Red/deep-red diodes usually produce twice as much photons per watt like a blue diode. So when you use blue base diodes to create red light that means you get only half that much photons compared to a red diode cuz the number of photons will stay almost the same(you will lose a few because of the conversion). The blue diode would need to be twice as much efficient to produce the same amount of photons. The spectrum looks really promissing but without more data I would not use them.
But Cree has a new XP-E2 deep-red diode in the pipeline reaching Osram Square efficiency and the price for Square diodes also finally comes down to "normal".
Osram fucks me up because you can not order top bins directly. You can only order groups like VMVO-1 and you'll get only one bin in this group but there are 3 flux bins between VM and VO and its a gamble which bin you'll get.
That's much better with Cree and I hope they will become available soon.

hmm, yes theire is lot of green on the 4000k cri70 but when flowering i think its good to had some "good quality" green with the 660/730/IR its help for the penetration throught leaves ( read that in lot of research) . have to see, and considerate everything. but the concept is to get one channel nichia 757g1v3 + one color channel with the lastest led.
so now we can play on witch color to put to get the best photo flower boost channel (12 led on the 2fts and 24 on the 4fts )
i will ask digikey or mouser if it possible to get the top bin of the Osram Square, when you take by1200 units the price start to be good.
still need a contact to get the nichia's led otherwise i will have to take the lumileds luxeon 3535L HE PLUS 4000k theire are more avalaible on europe. But i still dreaming on finding a contact to get the nichia 757 ^^

finaly the objectiv now is not really to get better yield, but better quality, i mean the power is here with the white led, made for high yield.
but now with science we now that every spectrum has purpose and play with terpen,thc level ect ect.
i wanna do something on this way: flower quality!

reallly apreciate the conversation randomblame!

 

[Or_Gro]

hmm, yes theire is lot of green on the 4000k cri70 but when flowering i think its good to had some "good quality" green with the 660/730/IR its help for the penetration throught leaves ( read that in lot of research) . have to see, and considerate everything. but the concept is to get one channel nichia 757g1v3 + one color channel with the lastest led.
so now we can play on witch color to put to get the best photo flower boost channel (12 led on the 2fts and 24 on the 4fts )
i will ask digikey or mouser if it possible to get the top bin of the Osram Square, when you take by1200 units the price start to be good.
still need a contact to get the nichia's led otherwise i will have to take the lumileds luxeon 3535L HE PLUS 4000k theire are more avalaible on europe. But i still dreaming on finding a contact to get the nichia 757 ^^

finaly the objectiv now is not really to get better yield, but better quality, i mean the power is here with the white led, made for high yield.
but now with science we now that every spectrum has purpose and play with terpen,thc level ect ect.
i wanna do something on this way: flower quality!

reallly apreciate the conversation randomblame!

Yes, intensity is here now, what isn’t is independently switchable, dimmable, tunable spectra...needs to be the mantra for maximizing canabis quality...diy’rs leading the way....

 

[Or_Gro]

@Randomblame what’s the benefit of increasing green band?

It’s less efficient for photosynthesis, than blue and red bands...

Any good research?

 

[grisbi]

@Randomblame what’s the benefit of increasing green band?

It’s less efficient for photosynthesis, than blue and red bands...

Any good research?

https://fluence.science/do-plants-use-green-light/
http://ursalighting.com/effect-green-light-plants/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3357375/
"Recent studies further demonstrate the role of green light in plant growth and development. Green-light exposure reversibly decreases stomatal conductance in lettuce,11 while the combination of green light with blue and red light improves plant biomass and chlorophyll content in lettuce seedlings"
i need to search but theire is lot of resarch about green light
i have to save eveytime i see some good research on green light! , i think they are usefull on complement with red on little space for better penetration

 

[Or_Gro]

https://fluence.science/do-plants-use-green-light/
http://ursalighting.com/effect-green-light-plants/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3357375/
"Recent studies further demonstrate the role of green light in plant growth and development. Green-light exposure reversibly decreases stomatal conductance in lettuce,11 while the combination of green light with blue and red light improves plant biomass and chlorophyll content in lettuce seedlings"
i need to search but theire is lot of resarch about green light
i have to save eveytime i see some good research on green light! , i think they are usefull on complement with red on little space for better penetration

So green penetrates deeper than some others colors, helps increase photosynthesis in a secondary role to blue and red, makes plants stretch, can be detrimental if beyond some amount...

Thanks

 

[RainDan]

Yeah I just returned from the local hardware store rabbit hole, and after lots of permutations I have come up with what seems to be the simplest way to hang while also having some side ways tilting capability.

I proudly present version 2.0... the top bar will self level if attached at corners allowing light to swivel left or right by loosening wing nuts.

View attachment 4271637 View attachment 4271638 View attachment 4271639 View attachment 4271640

Hello @yummy fur

That is a cool set up - very innovative, love it.

Have a great day.

Dan

 

[Randomblame]

So green penetrates deeper than some others colors, helps increase photosynthesis in a secondary role to blue and red, makes plants stretch, can be detrimental if beyond some amount...

Thanks

Yepp! Red and blue light is only used on the upper canopy. The light which gets reflected by the leaves is green light and is used in the lower plant areas. So even if you only use red and blue wavelength the light that travels deeper into the canopy is converted into green by reflection. You can check this with a camera, from above all looks pinkish red. If you take a shot from the lower areas the pinkish tint dissapears and the leaves look "normal" green.

IMO white has already enough green and there is no need to add more!
But green could be useful for inter canopy or side lighting on very big plants.

 

[Randomblame]

hmm, yes theire is lot of green on the 4000k cri70 but when flowering i think its good to had some "good quality" green with the 660/730/IR its help for the penetration throught leaves ( read that in lot of research) . have to see, and considerate everything. but the concept is to get one channel nichia 757g1v3 + one color channel with the lastest led.
so now we can play on witch color to put to get the best photo flower boost channel (12 led on the 2fts and 24 on the 4fts )
i will ask digikey or mouser if it possible to get the top bin of the Osram Square, when you take by1200 units the price start to be good.
still need a contact to get the nichia's led otherwise i will have to take the lumileds luxeon 3535L HE PLUS 4000k theire are more avalaible on europe. But i still dreaming on finding a contact to get the nichia 757 ^^

finaly the objectiv now is not really to get better yield, but better quality, i mean the power is here with the white led, made for high yield.
but now with science we now that every spectrum has purpose and play with terpen,thc level ect ect.
i wanna do something on this way: flower quality!

reallly apreciate the conversation randomblame!

Send you a link via PM to find the local Nichia distributor for your area.

And yeah, green travels deeper into the leaves but the amount of light going thru the leaves is pretty small. Believe me, the green light you find typically in lower areas is to 95% reflected by other leaves.
Test it out and cover the light sensor completely with one big and beefy leaf and test PAR output with and without the leaf in front of the sensor. Pretty sure the readings are up to 70% lower with only one leaf. Put two or three leaves together and there is less than 5% left.
And do not use a lux sensor for this test; they have a green filter to favor green light because its made for the human eyes.
It would not work even with conversion factor..

 

[Randomblame]

The thing is, all the light reflected by green leaves is green light. The other wavelengths are used to higher amounts and what's left is green. Therefor they look green to us. It doesn't matter if you use white or blurple spectrums the light in the lower area is converted into green. When you throw green light directly on the canopy where only red and blue wavelengths are used it will not drive photosynthesis more like red and blue.
For the plant to use the green light more efficiently you must bring it under the canopy where it is mostly used. To throw it on top of the closed canopy would be less efficient because the most of it gets reflected and reflection always also cause a certain loss.
IMO, green is good for side- or inter canopy lighting. With every white spectrum you'll get already ~40-50% green; even 2700°k has more than 40% green. I would not go so far and would say it's wasted but it's simply don't needed to add more with a white spectrum.

 

[grisbi]

The thing is, all the light reflected by green leaves is green light. The other wavelengths are used to higher amounts and what's left is green. Therefor they look green to us. It doesn't matter if you use white or blurple spectrums the light in the lower area is converted into green. When you throw green light directly on the canopy where only red and blue wavelengths are used it will not drive photosynthesis more like red and blue.
For the plant to use the green light more efficiently you must bring it under the canopy where it is mostly used. To throw it on top of the closed canopy would be less efficient because the most of it gets reflected and reflection always also cause a certain loss.
IMO, green is good for side- or inter canopy lighting. With every white spectrum you'll get already ~40-50% green; even 2700°k has more than 40% green. I would not go so far and would say it's wasted but it's simply don't needed to add more with a white spectrum.

you are totaly right, i mean that make sens, its more clear to me, so the "perfect" color flower booster channel will be: uv/660/730/ir/ , what about that?

 

[Or_Gro]

you are totaly right, i mean that make sens, its more clear to me, so the "perfect" color flower booster channel will be: uv/660/730/ir/ , what about that?

What does ir do beyond far red?

 

[Or_Gro]

What does ir do beyond far red?

I’m for uvb/uva/blue/630/660/730-40, done deal

Uvc for powdery mildew cleanup, if necessary...

 

[Or_Gro]

@Stephenj37826 @robincnn

Can you answer the questions please...

@Stephenj37826 , @robincnn

A little help please?

 

[grisbi]

I’m for uvb/uva/blue/630/660/730-40, done deal

Uvc for powdery mildew cleanup, if necessary...

i wont play with uv c my dear,too harmfull
uva/b on good proportion is way enought to stimulate resine production i think
im not sure about puting uva on my board/strip , i think putting t5 uv a/b bulb can do the job properly

you can simulate sunset/rise on putting only bleue/660/730/ir channel at the begining end of your 12/12 cycle and add the white channel durring the cycle + t5 uvb bulb at midday for 15/30mn
this will be my cycle to get the top quality that strain can get

 

[Or_Gro]

i wont play with uv c my dear,too harmfull
uva/b on good proportion is way enought to stimulate resine production i think
im not sure about puting uva on my board/strip , i think putting t5 uv a/b bulb can do the job properly

you can simulate sunset/rise on putting only bleue/660/730/ir channel at the begining end of your 12/12 cycle and add the white channel durring the cycle + t5 uvb bulb at midday for 15/30mn
this will be my cycle to get the top quality that strain can get

I wouldn't waste money on uv leds yet...t-5s 2ft and 4 ft agromax 75% uvb, 25% uva...doin it now, my veg plants are getting 36 mins (split 50:50 bod/eod) at ~ 100 uw/sq cm, currently adding 4 mins per day...will be ramping much higher...Like many of these things @Randomblame is my uv guru...

Uvc is not for light array, it’s handheld for damage control....yes dangerous, need to take proper precautions, but best, quickest, cleanest way to deal with pm...other uv’s help, too...imo