Different Benificials together?

JealousLeaf

JealousLeaf

Active Member
I've tried to look up this question using the search tool and just regular Google and I guess I'm not wording it right.

Also if I'm getting this wrong lemme know! I know I'm laying this out simplistic but I'm trying too be as to-the-point as I can.

This is all in the context of a rdwc or dwc grow. Though I don't know if that makes a difference or not,I'm still learning.

First, my understanding of Hydrofarms Orcas mykos is that they colonize the rootball and form a relationship with it that is beneficial and increases growth of the roots system.

Second, my understanding of Hydroguards bacteria is that they colonize the root system and eat the stuff that root-rot causing bacteria eat,thus out-competing the bad guys and leaving your roots nice and the water clean without having to use h2o2.

My questions: is it safe to use both of them at the same time? Is it redundant to use both of them? Will one bottles little dudes kill the other bottles little dudes? Or is it what I'm thinking, that they both serve a purpose and to use them both?

Thanks in advance brothers.
 
Logan Burke

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
You have the general idea down pat right, no frett :) There was actually a thread in the bubbleponics section that I'll fish out after typing this post and give you the link to, where we went in depth into the question of which bennies were better and/or which ones should or could be used together. We were comparing three primary bennies, which were Orca, Great White, and Hydroguard. I can't remember for 100% but I believe that the Orca had the same beneficials in it as hydroguard, and so did the Great White. But the Great White had a much larger diversity of beneficial microbes, including the ones that are in Orca, along with an extra kick of Mychro's which are good for stimulating root growth especially when a plant is small and that's all they need to take off in growth. It is perfectly safe to use them all at the same time, but fairly redundant. Now there may very well be other bennies that go along good with Great White, but I've only had personal experience with the three mentioned above. I've heard good things about this stuff here lately called "Microbes Life Photosynthesis Plus", but it doesn't look as cheap as Great White.
 
JealousLeaf

JealousLeaf

Active Member
Logan Burke said:
You have the general idea down pat right, no frett :) There was actually a thread in the bubbleponics section that I'll fish out after typing this post and give you the link to, where we went in depth into the question of which bennies were better and/or which ones should or could be used together. We were comparing three primary bennies, which were Orca, Great White, and Hydroguard. I can't remember for 100% but I believe that the Orca had the same beneficials in it as hydroguard, and so did the Great White. But the Great White had a much larger diversity of beneficial microbes, including the ones that are in Orca, along with an extra kick of Mychro's which are good for stimulating root growth especially when a plant is small and that's all they need to take off in growth. It is perfectly safe to use them all at the same time, but fairly redundant. Now there may very well be other bennies that go along good with Great White, but I've only had personal experience with the three mentioned above. I've heard good things about this stuff here lately called "Microbes Life Photosynthesis Plus", but it doesn't look as cheap as Great White.
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Thanks bro! Damn I had it backwards on Orca and Great White then lol! I thought Orca was like Great White with extra,but it's really Great White that has extra over Orca?
 
Logan Burke

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
Just did some homework on it to ensure I was giving correct info lol, and from all I can tell, yes GW has a wider array of both beneficial bacteria and the Mycho and Rhizo bacterias, which you see a lot in products for stimulating root growth. One difference betwen Orca and GW though is that GW contains a strain of beneficial called 'Trichoderma'. A few people on RIU have said that this strain of bacteria is bad for plants, but there wasn't any evidence they'd shown that convinced me of that... it was just their opinion. I have a hard time believing that a company that professionally breeds microbes specifically for plants would decide to toss in a strain that's bad for plant's roots. So I press onward with my GW :) Have you heard of Mammoth P before?
 
JealousLeaf

JealousLeaf

Active Member
Logan Burke said:
Just did some homework on it to ensure I was giving correct info lol, and from all I can tell, yes GW has a wider array of both beneficial bacteria and the Mycho and Rhizo bacterias, which you see a lot in products for stimulating root growth. One difference betwen Orca and GW though is that GW contains a strain of beneficial called 'Trichoderma'. A few people on RIU have said that this strain of bacteria is bad for plants, but there wasn't any evidence they'd shown that convinced me of that... it was just their opinion. I have a hard time believing that a company that professionally breeds microbes specifically for plants would decide to toss in a strain that's bad for plant's roots. So I press onward with my GW :) Have you heard of Mammoth P before?
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Good looking out bro! No I haven't heard of Mammoth P?
 
Logan Burke

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
The best bennie I have found is Tribus and it has less strains of shit in it than others.
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Is Tribus the name of the product or the name of the microbe? Sorry, a bit ditzy over here lol.
And I only asked if you'd heard of Mammoth P because I've heard of a lot of people running it and it is supposed to be particularly helpful in the bloom phase in that it enhances uptake of phosporous. Even though the stuff is incredibly expensive...I've heard of people paying 100$ plus for a bottle. I've been trying to find a good product to add along side my Great White.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
https://www.impellobio.com/tribus-original/

I got an explanation as to why they use less strains, from the makers of Tribus.

"The bacteria in Tribus are the most dominant bacterial species in the cannabis rhizosphere (because the plant selects for them) and provide a number of advantages in practical application: their spore-forming ability helps them persist in unfavorable environments and means they can be tank-mixed with incredibly concentrated fertilizers and/or pesticides, they produce an incredible diversity of enzymes, antibiotic compounds, and even some phytohormones, and they are ultimately capable of promoting plant growth through every known microbial growth-promoting mechanism (i.e., nutrient cycling, pathogen resistance, improved water uptake, etc).

Tribus is composed of a limited consortia of microbes (3-7 species) at extremely high concentrations (10 billion CFUs/ML). Older gen. inoculants (like Great White by Plant Success) have 20+ microbes at lower concentrations. You will hear these companies pitch the benefits of microbial diversity in their product. The problem with that is that is two-fold: 1) the plant is highly selective in its rhizosphere microbiome and rarely supports more than a few dominant bacterial species and 2) no one in the world has the ability to quantify the interactions between dozens of microorganisms. There was a paper published recently by a biophysicist that looks at the maximum number of microbe-microbe interactions that we can quantify in an ecosystem (soil, petri dish, or otherwise); he concluded that when there are more than ~17 microbes interacting with each other, there are more possible microbe-microbe interactions than their are atoms in the visible universe. In turn, products with that many microbes cannot be quantifiably analyzed for efficacy. What we can do today, however, is pick the 3, 4 or 5 most productive species that the plant selects for in its root zone and actually quantify what's going on.

We are trying to keep things simple- by focusing on the most productive species at high concentrations we can better quantify and attribute growth to microbe interactions. Our inoculants are purely bacteria and water, and nothing else. We know they aren't competing with each other in the rhizosphere which we can't confidently say for older-gen inoculants with 10+ species. Also, the high concentration ensures there is also a consistently high population of our good bacteria in the rhizosphere! At 10 billion CFUs/mL we are over 50x more concentrated per mL than most other inoculants."
 
Logan Burke

Logan Burke

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
https://www.impellobio.com/tribus-original/

I got an explanation as to why they use less strains, from the makers of Tribus.

"The bacteria in Tribus are the most dominant bacterial species in the cannabis rhizosphere (because the plant selects for them) and provide a number of advantages in practical application: their spore-forming ability helps them persist in unfavorable environments and means they can be tank-mixed with incredibly concentrated fertilizers and/or pesticides, they produce an incredible diversity of enzymes, antibiotic compounds, and even some phytohormones, and they are ultimately capable of promoting plant growth through every known microbial growth-promoting mechanism (i.e., nutrient cycling, pathogen resistance, improved water uptake, etc).

Tribus is composed of a limited consortia of microbes (3-7 species) at extremely high concentrations (10 billion CFUs/ML). Older gen. inoculants (like Great White by Plant Success) have 20+ microbes at lower concentrations. You will hear these companies pitch the benefits of microbial diversity in their product. The problem with that is that is two-fold: 1) the plant is highly selective in its rhizosphere microbiome and rarely supports more than a few dominant bacterial species and 2) no one in the world has the ability to quantify the interactions between dozens of microorganisms. There was a paper published recently by a biophysicist that looks at the maximum number of microbe-microbe interactions that we can quantify in an ecosystem (soil, petri dish, or otherwise); he concluded that when there are more than ~17 microbes interacting with each other, there are more possible microbe-microbe interactions than their are atoms in the visible universe. In turn, products with that many microbes cannot be quantifiably analyzed for efficacy. What we can do today, however, is pick the 3, 4 or 5 most productive species that the plant selects for in its root zone and actually quantify what's going on.

We are trying to keep things simple- by focusing on the most productive species at high concentrations we can better quantify and attribute growth to microbe interactions. Our inoculants are purely bacteria and water, and nothing else. We know they aren't competing with each other in the rhizosphere which we can't confidently say for older-gen inoculants with 10+ species. Also, the high concentration ensures there is also a consistently high population of our good bacteria in the rhizosphere! At 10 billion CFUs/mL we are over 50x more concentrated per mL than most other inoculants."
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Oh wow this is really informing, now you're making me want to try this Tribus!! Thank you for the information Renfro, helpful as always! :)
 
JealousLeaf

JealousLeaf

Active Member
Logan Burke said:
Is Tribus the name of the product or the name of the microbe? Sorry, a bit ditzy over here lol.
And I only asked if you'd heard of Mammoth P because I've heard of a lot of people running it and it is supposed to be particularly helpful in the bloom phase in that it enhances uptake of phosporous. Even though the stuff is incredibly expensive...I've heard of people paying 100$ plus for a bottle. I've been trying to find a good product to add along side my Great White.
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Holy crap, $100? It CAN'T be worth that,right? That sounds crazylol.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
It's not cheap but at least you only need 1mL per gallon. The 500 mL is 100 bucks so a way better deal as the bottle gets bigger.
 
JealousLeaf

JealousLeaf

Active Member
Renfro said:
It's not cheap but at least you only need 1mL per gallon. The 500 mL is 100 bucks so a way better deal as the bottle gets bigger.
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That's true,but Jeez! That seems like a lot forSome bennies when we have to take companies wordit does what they say. Especially when they're super motivated to sell it to us lol.
 
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