Most effecient chips!

[ChiefRunningPhist]

At the end of the day no substrate will be king. Any material layer between the die and the pcb is a thermal barrier. Flip chip is great and eventually CSP will be the future soon.

Interesting, I've had thermal mentioned to me a few times before and just thought if the correct MCL or MCPCB was used it shouldn't really matter, but after seeing what CSP is (and flip chip), my opinion may need adjusting lol. Do you know if that green Nichia 1717 is a flip chip?

Height of 0.35mm, max rated 1.8W (550mA)


I stumbled across this pic a while ago and was curious about the MCOB tech. It looked similar to some chips I think I've seen before and looked like it had better thermal mgmt, was curious how it stacked in effeciency vs traditional COB and mid power packages..

 

[Stephenj37826]

View attachment 4339994
Interesting, I've had thermal mentioned to me a few times before and just thought if the correct MCL or MCPCB was used it shouldn't really matter, but after seeing what CSP is (and flip chip), my opinion may need adjusting lol. Do you know if that green Nichia 1717 is a flip chip?

Height of 0.35mm, max rated 1.8W (550mA)


I stumbled across this pic a while ago and was curious about the MCOB tech. It looked similar to some chips I think I've seen before and looked like it had better thermal mgmt, was curious how it stacked in effeciency vs traditional COB and mid power packages..
View attachment 4339995

Not sure on the nichia but that size and wattage sounds like it. Our V1 qb96 is actually csp. The numbers just weren't quiet there. Improvements are being made.

 

[oldbeancounter]

Haha yep, they've been using ceramic for awhile now and as you mentioned, for it's great thermal properties.

I'm not super experienced but I haven't seen any 3535 that weren't ceramic yet. Most 3535 that I've seen are what they refer to as "power packages" with higher currents ranging from 0.5A to 1A typically, and dissipating 1W-3W generally.

Cause I'm bored lol ...

Example 3030 power density (LM301b):
0.35W - (2.8V, 0.125A)
3030 = 3.0mm × 3.0mm; 0.000009m2
0.35W ÷ 0.000009m2
=
38,888.89W/m2; 38.88kW/m2

Example 3535 power density (365nm SV):
1.85W - (3.7V, 0.5A)
3535 = 3.5mm × 3.5mm; 0.00001225m2
1.85W ÷ 0.00001225m2
=
151,020.41W/m2; 151.02kW/m2

3535 power density vs 3030 power density:
151.02kW/m2 ÷ 38.8902kW/m2
=
3.88×


~3.5× - 4.0× more power per area, or per m2, in a 3535 than 3030

Trying to figure out a driver for 40 chips on a 1120 mm strip and 7 strips of that for a total of
280 chips on the Samsung LED MODULE
LT-QB22A
5000K STRIP
1120 mm
SI-B8R201B20US
Wish I could understand the math you do it over my head lol
I know a driver to run strips should be a meanwell HGL h series in 48 volt so got that far lol

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Trying to figure out a driver for 40 chips on a 1120 mm strip and 7 strips of that for a total of
280 chips on the Samsung LED MODULE
LT-QB22A
5000K STRIP
1120 mm
SI-B8R201B20US
Wish I could understand the math you do it over my head lol
I know a driver to run strips should be a meanwell HGL h series in 48 volt so got that far lol

Not sure if I'm looking at the correct strips, or how the chips are wired on the strip, but the LT-QB22A strips I'm looking at seem to be ~20w.

7 strips running at 20w each is ~140w.


I'd use a 185h-48AB. You can dim the driver down to 10% with an aftermarket POT ($1), and if you maxed the driver you could run each strip closer to 27W each, or 560mA each strip.


The strips are rated for 900mA, so if you want to run 900mA each you'll need to jump up to a 320h-48AB. You can't run the 320h maxed or it will exceed the max ratings of the strip, you can run it about 93% max. You'll want heatsinks if running 900mA. The strips are rated for 900mA but I wouldn't run them more than 600mA max.


You might be able to max them with a 240h-48AB, I think you can squeeze close to 260w out of a 240h, but it just depends on how hard you want to drive the strips, ie, how big an area you're trying to cover with them.


Max ft2 per driver (35W/ft2 - 37.5W/ft2):
185h - up to (5.0 - 5.4)ft2
240h - up to (6.8 - 7.3)ft2
320h - up to (7.8 - 8.2)ft2

I'd recommend either the 185h-48AB, or the 240h-48AB. If you have a big area then I'd go with the 320h, but I'd use heatsinks at that power consumption.

 

[TheGreatSouthern]

I use those strips. they are excellent.
I use 15 strips per lighting rig, each one glued with thermal adhesive to a length of 1" square aluminium extrusion. I run the whole thing at 11 amps, so 730mA per strip. they stay cool to the touch at that current level but get a lot warmer if I go up to 12 amps, so 800mA per strip is a bit over the top in my opinion, they will take it according to the data sheet but I'd say you would shorten their life a lot and you would need an expensive heat sink. you'd be better off using double the number of strips and running at rated current or just over than driving strips at their max current. it would probably be cheaper because heat sinks are more expensive than QB22a strips and aluminium box section is dirt cheap. you also get significantly more efficiency that way, you'll note you can get up to 220lm/w at binning current which is 450ma for the QB22A but it drops off a lot, like down to 180lm/w at max current - depending on the temperature.
another significant advantage with samsung strips over COBs or quantum boards is that they are not so much of a point light source. because they are spread over a large area you can run them a lot closer to the canopy. I left mine unattended for a few days last year, wasn't expecting that much vertical growth but when I got back there the plants had grown up and were touching the strips. the only damage to the leaves was a little brown square where the leaf had made contact with the actual led chip, no heat damage or light stress or anything. since then I've hung my qb22a strips only 3-4 inches off the canopy and no light stress problems.

 

[oldbeancounter]

I use those strips. they are excellent.
I use 15 strips per lighting rig, each one glued with thermal adhesive to a length of 1" square aluminium extrusion. I run the whole thing at 11 amps, so 730mA per strip. they stay cool to the touch at that current level but get a lot warmer if I go up to 12 amps, so 800mA per strip is a bit over the top in my opinion, they will take it according to the data sheet but I'd say you would shorten their life a lot and you would need an expensive heat sink. you'd be better off using double the number of strips and running at rated current or just over than driving strips at their max current. it would probably be cheaper because heat sinks are more expensive than QB22a strips and aluminium box section is dirt cheap. you also get significantly more efficiency that way, you'll note you can get up to 220lm/w at binning current which is 450ma for the QB22A but it drops off a lot, like down to 180lm/w at max current - depending on the temperature.
another significant advantage with samsung strips over COBs or quantum boards is that they are not so much of a point light source. because they are spread over a large area you can run them a lot closer to the canopy. I left mine unattended for a few days last year, wasn't expecting that much vertical growth but when I got back there the plants had grown up and were touching the strips. the only damage to the leaves was a little brown square where the leaf had made contact with the actual led chip, no heat damage or light stress or anything. since then I've hung my qb22a strips only 3-4 inches off the canopy and no light stress problems.

@TheGreatSouthern
I should have mentioned I had heatsinks.
https://www.heatsinkusa.com/1-000/
I have 18 of these in link above 48 inches long(4 spares for red-FR and blue strips or singular diodes high power I am going to add) 44 inches of heatsink will be areas where strips are two sided taped on(rest part of frame/perimeter heat sink which diagram of in link further down)
I have them coming, They just cleared customs should have them anyday.
Have 14 of strips you have as well 1120 mm 5000k we are discussing.

I really appreciate you taking time to reply
I will need time to read your reply again and make sure
I understand everything fully but this sure helped.

link to light I am making which is ever changing as
people provide welcomed input as you are most to as well.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/horticultural-veg-light-build-lost-stumped-i-need-advice-come-on-in.990106/#post-14916036
Thanks again

 

[oldbeancounter]

@ChiefRunningPhist
I need to time to go over this for a reply
Thank you very much for all that info it will be of great assistance.

Not sure if I'm looking at the correct strips, or how the chips are wired on the strip, but the LT-QB22A strips I'm looking at seem to be ~20w.
View attachment 4340237
7 strips running at 20w each is ~140w.


I'd use a 185h-48AB. You can dim the driver down to 10% with an aftermarket POT ($1), and if you maxed the driver you could run each strip closer to 27W each, or 560mA each strip.
View attachment 4340239 View attachment 4340238

The strips are rated for 900mA, so if you want to run 900mA each you'll need to jump up to a 320h-48AB. You can't run the 320h maxed or it will exceed the max ratings of the strip, you can run it about 93% max. You'll want heatsinks if running 900mA. The strips are rated for 900mA but I wouldn't run them more than 600mA max.
View attachment 4340241

You might be able to max them with a 240h-48AB, I think you can squeeze close to 280w out of a 240h, but it just depends on how hard you want to drive the strips, ie, how big an area you're trying to cover with them.
View attachment 4340247

Max ft2 per driver (35W/ft2 - 37.5W/ft2):
185h - up to (5.0 - 5.4)ft2
240h - up to (6.8 - 7.3)ft2
320h - up to (7.8 - 8.2)ft2

I'd recommend either the 185h-48AB, or the 240h-48AB. If you have a big area then I'd go with the 320h, but I'd use heatsinks at that power consumption.

 

[Randomblame]

Semiled has pretty good UV and near UV diodes. They are often used in aquarium lights for instance.
Rapidled has different wavelength available like these 390-400nm ones.

https://www.rapidled.com/semileds-ultra-violet-uva-led-390-400nm/#tab_specs

I've used 425nm Semileds(950mW @Test current, 3,6v) and will use them again combined with XP-E2 blue (group B5 480nm, M2 bin, I've not found M3, B6) to supplement my 2700°k HL boards. The additional mono string will have 4x 425nm, 4x 480nm, 2x 660nm (Square series) and 4x 670nm (XP-E2's), dimmable, max. 600mA, ~25w at the wall and supplements 2 boards at 100w each. I should may wait until june, lol! XP-G3 in deep-red. Damned, can they also handle 2amps?

The 2700°k/CRI95 HL spectrum has already enough far-red but I want a wider blue range, a filled cyan hole and some additional deepred. Goal is to further reduce the difference the spectrum has against the mc cree curve. I also have a 24w T5 reptile bulb so in the end each fixture will have around 250w. I still wait for some parts but not to long and I can start assembling.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

wider blue range, a filled cyan hole

100%

 

[Rocket Soul]

Semiled has pretty good UV and near UV diodes. They are often used in aquarium lights for instance.
Rapidled has different wavelength available like these 390-400nm ones.

https://www.rapidled.com/semileds-ultra-violet-uva-led-390-400nm/#tab_specs

I've used 425nm Semileds(950mW @Test current, 3,6v) and will use them again combined with XP-E2 blue (group B5 480nm, M2 bin, I've not found M3, B6) to supplement my 2700°k HL boards. The additional mono string will have 4x 425nm, 4x 480nm, 2x 660nm (Square series) and 4x 670nm (XP-E2's), dimmable, max. 600mA, ~25w at the wall and supplements 2 boards at 100w each. I should may wait until june, lol! XP-G3 in deep-red. Damned, can they also handle 2amps?

The 2700°k/CRI95 HL spectrum has already enough far-red but I want a wider blue range, a filled cyan hole and some additional deepred. Goal is to further reduce the difference the spectrum has against the mc cree curve. I also have a 24w T5 reptile bulb so in the end each fixture will have around 250w. I still wait for some parts but not to long and I can start assembling.

425nm semileds: do you have a euro hook up for them? Last time i looked at blues at led-tech i didnt find anything.

Xpg3: i ihink the blue will do 2 amps, deepreds 1.5. still almost 6w @ around 3ppf/w

 

[Randomblame]

100%

Yeah, there is a lot of action in this range(phytochromes, flavonoids, carotenoids) and I have already used 420+660nm to supplement 3,5k COB's and it only had positive effects. The leaf green was visible darker and looked more healthy and the plants were also more colorful at the end. Much more purpleling like without ...

 

[Randomblame]

425nm semileds: do you have a euro hook up for them? Last time i looked at blues at led-tech i didnt find anything.

Xpg3: i ihink the blue will do 2 amps, deepreds 1.5. still almost 6w @ around 3ppf/w

Nope, found my Semiled's at rapidled. LED-tech don't has them.. They only have blue(470nm) and royal blue Osram and Cree chips. Till now also no Square series top bins, you only get VM which is the 3rd best. VO is top bin but unfortunately you can order only groups. This makes it much more difficult to get the best ones.
With Cree its much easier because there is no group nonsense. Resellers can get top bins much easier, with Osrams it's always a gamble because in the worst case a group can be one of 3 or more different bins. If you order VMVO-1 which is the highest group you can either get VM, VN or VO bin... and currently you only get VM.

Deep-red should have 2,5-2,6v at max. current btw, with 1,5amps that's around 3,8-3,9w with 2amps 5-5,2w.

 

[grotbags]

Semiled has pretty good UV and near UV diodes. They are often used in aquarium lights for instance.
Rapidled has different wavelength available like these 390-400nm ones.

https://www.rapidled.com/semileds-ultra-violet-uva-led-390-400nm/#tab_specs

I've used 425nm Semileds(950mW @Test current, 3,6v) and will use them again combined with XP-E2 blue (group B5 480nm, M2 bin, I've not found M3, B6) to supplement my 2700°k HL boards. The additional mono string will have 4x 425nm, 4x 480nm, 2x 660nm (Square series) and 4x 670nm (XP-E2's), dimmable, max. 600mA, ~25w at the wall and supplements 2 boards at 100w each. I should may wait until june, lol! XP-G3 in deep-red. Damned, can they also handle 2amps?

The 2700°k/CRI95 HL spectrum has already enough far-red but I want a wider blue range, a filled cyan hole and some additional deepred. Goal is to further reduce the difference the spectrum has against the mc cree curve. I also have a 24w T5 reptile bulb so in the end each fixture will have around 250w. I still wait for some parts but not to long and I can start assembling.

yer this has been my thought process lately, for my next light i think rather than starting with a white diode (4K ish 80CRI, i actually used 3k and 5k at roughly a 2:1 ratio) and adding the reds ect, i will like you start with something warmer around 2700k in a higher CRI and then add a few different nm blues to try and fatten out the blue range rather than just live with the 450nm spike you get from 4k 80CRI, then a little more deep red and a some far red on a separate channel.

 

[Randomblame]

yer this has been my thought process lately, for my next light i think rather than starting with a white diode (4K ish 80CRI, i actually used 3k and 5k at roughly a 2:1 ratio) and adding the reds ect, i will like you start with something warmer around 2700k in a higher CRI and then add a few different nm blues to try and fatten out the blue range rather than just live with the 450nm spike you get from 4k 80CRI, then a little more deep red and a some far red on a separate channel.

Yeah, wait for the new Bridgelux EBgen3 strips they'll be soon available. Up to 199lm/w in CRI80 and 165lm/CRI90+ and price should be almost the same like current EBgen2 strips. The Vesta series(2,7k/CRI93 and 5k/95, tunable) are tested with 2,47μMol/j at half current(129 and 135lm/w). That means the new gen3 should be close to 2,7-2,8μMol/j depending on spectrum and CRI. Not bad for such a cheap strip and driven lower you can even improve that.

I think the same, it makes more sense to cover more wavelength as to just add more royal blue. There is already an imbalance between PS-I and PS-II when using leds. It also makes sense to add a fair amount of far-red because it has a regulating effect on both photosynthesis systems.
There is a lot of photosynthetic action on both sides next to royal blue(420 + 480nm) and if you use 420, 450 or 480nm makes not a big difference in efficiency. We only use a few watts of each wavelength anyway..
In my case each 100w board gets around 3w blue/480nm and 4w 420nm/purple extra and the 2 different brands of deep-red diodes will add ~4w deepred. I only want to fill up the spectrum here and there, but no big spikes.

 

[ANC]

Think they will be a better proposition than H_Influx? I'm looking at building a 6 or 8 beam Hinflux S03 and L06, the high-density single row versions.

 

[oldbeancounter]

Semiled has pretty good UV and near UV diodes. They are often used in aquarium lights for instance.
Rapidled has different wavelength available like these 390-400nm ones.

https://www.rapidled.com/semileds-ultra-violet-uva-led-390-400nm/#tab_specs

I've used 425nm Semileds(950mW @Test current, 3,6v) and will use them again combined with XP-E2 blue (group B5 480nm, M2 bin, I've not found M3, B6) to supplement my 2700°k HL boards. The additional mono string will have 4x 425nm, 4x 480nm, 2x 660nm (Square series) and 4x 670nm (XP-E2's), dimmable, max. 600mA, ~25w at the wall and supplements 2 boards at 100w each. I should may wait until june, lol! XP-G3 in deep-red. Damned, can they also handle 2amps?

The 2700°k/CRI95 HL spectrum has already enough far-red but I want a wider blue range, a filled cyan hole and some additional deepred. Goal is to further reduce the difference the spectrum has against the mc cree curve. I also have a 24w T5 reptile bulb so in the end each fixture will have around 250w. I still wait for some parts but not to long and I can start assembling.

@Randomblame
Rapid LED has some great stuff.
being in North America does help them shipping wise for me. I think they are sponsor here as well so I know I will likely buy some things off them I have been looking on their site and they do reply to your inquiry in a timely fashion which I liked.

That is excellent information.
I tried just 48 " 32 watt T-8 bulbs in a blue-red pink color kinda like cheap burble light but this really helps plants along with the 3000K HLG 320 hanging with it and also the T-8 Solocure bulbs do really make a difference
http://www.lighting.philips.ca/prof/conventional-lamps-and-tubes/fluorescent-lamps-and-starters/tl-d/retail-sales-t8/927870000702_NA/product

So 14 strips of 5000 k times 40 watts ish(on heat sinks) so I will get a Meanwell HLG 600 H 48 B and pot from Rapid LED and that's all on the driver. Do the same for each thing added.
So 5000K dealt with, likely some ceiling in light, some wall, like you mentioned good idea thanks
I like sativa so that will help me grow em tall LOL.

400nm or there about's I will definitively want added as solocure bulb's drop off right about there(390nm ish) and will end just about where the 5000k sammy strips start correct?
Then red , blue and far red , that is it.
Going to cost it all out as to who to buy what from and start buying parts this week hopefully all of it by next weekend at least on order.
once I have amounts I am buying I can space them out based on output.
I have a small place so took me a bit to clear a place to build this but I did and all ready to go as really till it is done I don't want my tent up it will just get wreaked building strips inside it and the tent was like $1000.00 up here in the north , everything will be crispy new to start.
New fan, filters, everything really.
Have a small area I test plants and little smoke for myself till the main garden opens.
I need days to read all you have offered, I will write back once I am clear what it is I hope to build for some polite scrutiny hopefully lol
Once it is up and a grow starts I will be sure to show it's effect etc

 

[oldbeancounter]

Yeah, there is a lot of action in this range(phytochromes, flavonoids, carotenoids) and I have already used 420+660nm to supplement 3,5k COB's and it only had positive effects. The leaf green was visible darker and looked more healthy and the plants were also more colorful at the end. Much more purpleling like without ...

@Randomblame
I see purple but it is healthy, it just changed the top of a tomato plant from green to purple, but my gosh does it's leaves ever smell , never smelt a tomato plant stronger in my life and have grown them all my life outside.
This has nothing to do with nute's,
it is the light doing it.
test will be how do the taste which
I see have a few tiny tomatoes starting.
time will tell.
fresh food in winter available that tastes like outdoors now that would be worth alot here to me
vers mexico picked green and ripened by gas covered in chemicals no thanks.

 

[oldbeancounter]

Not sure if I'm looking at the correct strips, or how the chips are wired on the strip, but the LT-QB22A strips I'm looking at seem to be ~20w.
View attachment 4340237
7 strips running at 20w each is ~140w.


I'd use a 185h-48AB. You can dim the driver down to 10% with an aftermarket POT ($1), and if you maxed the driver you could run each strip closer to 27W each, or 560mA each strip.
View attachment 4340239 View attachment 4340238

The strips are rated for 900mA, so if you want to run 900mA each you'll need to jump up to a 320h-48AB. You can't run the 320h maxed or it will exceed the max ratings of the strip, you can run it about 93% max. You'll want heatsinks if running 900mA. The strips are rated for 900mA but I wouldn't run them more than 600mA max.
View attachment 4340241

You might be able to max them with a 240h-48AB, I think you can squeeze close to 260w out of a 240h, but it just depends on how hard you want to drive the strips, ie, how big an area you're trying to cover with them.
View attachment 4340247

Max ft2 per driver (35W/ft2 - 37.5W/ft2):
185h - up to (5.0 - 5.4)ft2
240h - up to (6.8 - 7.3)ft2
320h - up to (7.8 - 8.2)ft2

I'd recommend either the 185h-48AB, or the 240h-48AB. If you have a big area then I'd go with the 320h, but I'd use heatsinks at that power consumption.

@ChiefRunningPhist
I have a total of 14 of the LT-QB22A strips in 5000k
I will use a Meanwell HLG 600H 48B to drive them on heatsinks.
Where I am not sure yet, part on light, part on wall of tent so I will need to split them up.
One channel light Veg building up to 300 watts but dialed way down to 150 ish to hit peak efficiency I paid to get.
so therefore your chart still applies just walls will be lite up too with 300 watts of 5000 k.

"Max ft2 per driver (35W/ft2 - 37.5W/ft2):
185h - up to (5.0 - 5.4)ft2
240h - up to (6.8 - 7.3)ft2
320h - up to (7.8 - 8.2)ft2
Max ft2 per driver (35W/ft2 - 37.5W/ft2):
185h - up to (5.0 - 5.4)ft2
240h - up to (6.8 - 7.3)ft2
320h - up to (7.8 - 8.2)ft2"

let me think placement over or you are welcome to offer
here is tent it is going in
https://www.gorillagrowtent.com/products/5x9-grow-tent?variant=28980519495

ceiling height of 6"6" feet available for plants with light 12 inches away hanging(total 7'6")
I checked that is max height I can ever hang a light.

 

[oldbeancounter]

I use those strips. they are excellent.
I use 15 strips per lighting rig, each one glued with thermal adhesive to a length of 1" square aluminium extrusion. I run the whole thing at 11 amps, so 730mA per strip. they stay cool to the touch at that current level but get a lot warmer if I go up to 12 amps, so 800mA per strip is a bit over the top in my opinion, they will take it according to the data sheet but I'd say you would shorten their life a lot and you would need an expensive heat sink. you'd be better off using double the number of strips and running at rated current or just over than driving strips at their max current. it would probably be cheaper because heat sinks are more expensive than QB22a strips and aluminium box section is dirt cheap. you also get significantly more efficiency that way, you'll note you can get up to 220lm/w at binning current which is 450ma for the QB22A but it drops off a lot, like down to 180lm/w at max current - depending on the temperature.
another significant advantage with samsung strips over COBs or quantum boards is that they are not so much of a point light source. because they are spread over a large area you can run them a lot closer to the canopy. I left mine unattended for a few days last year, wasn't expecting that much vertical growth but when I got back there the plants had grown up and were touching the strips. the only damage to the leaves was a little brown square where the leaf had made contact with the actual led chip, no heat damage or light stress or anything. since then I've hung my qb22a strips only 3-4 inches off the canopy and no light stress problems.

@TheGreatSouthern
Thanks
I will be running them at around 450ma but have the ceiling to go higher if wanted for future proof so I can add to circuit if I want just add strips heat sinks and some wire.
I intend to design it so I can get very close to the canopy but it costs alot more to have diodes all spend out but its ok I feel the benefits out way cost.
Do you use other lights with these 5000k ?

 

[Rocket Soul]

Yeah, there is a lot of action in this range(phytochromes, flavonoids, carotenoids) and I have already used 420+660nm to supplement 3,5k COB's and it only had positive effects. The leaf green was visible darker and looked more healthy and the plants were also more colorful at the end. Much more purpleling like without ...

420 nm has a peak in the stomata aperture spectrum. Iirc 360 and 280 aswell. Theres a paper on that somewhere but i guess youve already read em all

i just wish cutter could do 420 on their solstrips. Or a 660/420 hortistrip from ledtech.

I was looking at numbers after the whole HGL thing. A 2700k 90cri strip (as per tekniks vesta tests) and a 9/1 red-blue strip should basicly copy that spectrum on a one to one basis of wattage and strips. At higher efficiency and less than a € per w for the chips, using cutter and led-tech