Viparspectra V450 VS. Mars Hydro TS1000 - which one to choose for flowering?

[KBRA7]

Hello everyone,

I have a full HPS setup and I love it, but it generates too much heat and also draws too many Amps so I decided to replace them with some LEDs. So I bought 4pcs of Viparspectra V450 and 2pcs of Mars Hydro TS1000. Not the best on the market - but hey, it was cheap and I already bought them.

Now I have a dilemma - which 2 of those should I use for my blooming plants?

V450 actual power is 200W from the wall and TS1000 has 150 true watts. They both use LED SMD technology. As the manufacturers declares, they both cover 2x2 flowering space.
V450 has 12-band full spectrum LEDs (IR included) and 50 more watts, but TS1000 has a better spectrum for flowering...

Spectrum analysis:

If you had to choose 1 of 2 for blooming - what would be your option?

P.S. Sorry for my English. It's not my native language.

 

[Renfro]

The one with the most light. Spectrum quality while important is not as important as light intensity. So for example the white light cobs perform really well due to their abundance of light.

 

[Renfro]

Setup your lighting for about 35 actual watts per square foot.

Also the chart is for the V600 and not the V450. I do like the extra red in the Mars spectrum.

One might use both lights and see what performs best.

 

[coreywebster]

The mars ts.

 

[growingforfun]

I'd go with the mars ts.
However if it's just because your looking for something easily available off someplace like amazon theres a better choice for the same price as the mars ts.

Basically the mars ts is going to do ok but it's going to get pretty hot, the reflector isnt going to help at all and it takes the place of a heat sink that would actually help. It also doesnt use as good of diodes as the other option.

But between the 2 you listed the mars ts all day.

 

[KBRA7]

Setup your lighting for about 35 actual watts per square foot.

Also the chart is for the V600 and not the V450. I do like the extra red in the Mars spectrum.

One might use both lights and see what performs best.

Yes, I have more than 35w/sq ft.
Sorry, my bad. There's spectrum analysis of V450, but that still does not change much...

I'd go with the mars ts.
However if it's just because your looking for something easily available off someplace like amazon theres a better choice for the same price as the mars ts.

Basically the mars ts is going to do ok but it's going to get pretty hot, the reflector isnt going to help at all and it takes the place of a heat sink that would actually help. It also doesnt use as good of diodes as the other option.

But between the 2 you listed the mars ts all day.

No doubt there's some better options pricewise but there's what I already have: 4x V450s + 2x TS1000s and a bunch of 250w HPS. I'll probably add some fans onto TS1000s to reduce heat.

Anyway, thanks for advice, guys. I'll use TS1000s then for my autoflowers. Others are still vegging.

Would it be wise to use 2x250w HPS between Viparspectra's to increase red spectrum when all of my plants will go into full bloom mode? I don't really need any more light in my tent, but it might be a good idea to add some red spectrum... Something like this:

Whatcha think? I hate the idea about adding HPS because those hot f*kers was the main reason why I bought LEDs in the first place... But if it will make a huge difference - I'll add some.

 

[growingforfun]

Yes, I have more than 35w/sq ft.
Sorry, my bad. There's spectrum analysis of V450, but that still does not change much...

No doubt there's some better options pricewise but there's what I already have: 4x V450s + 2x TS1000s and a bunch of 250w HPS. I'll probably add some fans onto TS1000s to reduce heat.

Anyway, thanks for advice, guys. I'll use TS1000s then for my autoflowers. Others are still vegging.

Would it be wise to use 2x250w HPS between Viparspectra's to increase red spectrum when all of my plants will go into full bloom mode? I don't really need any more light in my tent, but it might be a good idea to add some red spectrum... Something like this:

Whatcha think? I hate the idea about adding HPS because those hot f*kers was the main reason why I bought LEDs in the first place... But if it will make a huge difference - I'll add some.

I see, I dont think your OP stated you already had the lights, that does make a differance.
Have you told us your grow area? I saw you said you had some auto flowers, do you also have photo period plants?
Personally I would combine the vipers with the marshydros like this:

MV
VM

I probably wouldnt use the 250 hps, I do like hps but I've never liked 250s. I think the bulbs are junk and dont serve the purpose well. I know others think differantly about them but that's just me.

 

[KBRA7]

I see, I dont think your OP stated you already had the lights, that does make a differance.
Have you told us your grow area? I saw you said you had some auto flowers, do you also have photo period plants?
Personally I would combine the vipers with the marshydros like this:

MV
VM

I probably wouldnt use the 250 hps, I do like hps but I've never liked 250s. I think the bulbs are junk and dont serve the purpose well. I know others think differantly about them but that's just me.

Yes, I told about the lights in the first post. And yes, I have few autos and few photoperiods in the same 8x4 tent.

After doing some research and comparing different VS models I found out some stuff that put me in a full panic mode. Just take a look:

V300s not only has a better spectrum but also better efficiency (33.3lm/W against 24.6lm/W). Those LED panels are quite bad in general and I probably got the worse of them all...

Or there's something I do not understand?

 

[growingforfun]

Yes, I told about the lights in the first post. And yes, I have few autos and few photoperiods in the same 8x4 tent.

After doing some research and comparing different VS models I found out some stuff that put me in a full panic mode. Just take a look:

V300s not only has a better spectrum but also better efficiency (33.3lm/W against 24.6lm/W). Those LED panels are quite bad in general and I probably got the worse of them all...

Or there's something I do not understand?

Theres gotta be a mistake they cant be such low lm/watt. At this point even 130lm/watt is low. If they are in fact somehow that low then they are producing about as much light as a common household led burning 7 watts producing 140lm/watt. The house LEDs do fine growing too tho, using around 100 watts of them I did just fine in veg.

So it's too late to return them I assume?

 

[KBRA7]

Theres gotta be a mistake they cant be such low lm/watt. At this point even 130lm/watt is low. If they are in fact somehow that low then they are producing about as much light as a common household led burning 7 watts producing 140lm/watt. The house LEDs do fine growing too tho, using around 100 watts of them I did just fine in veg.

So it's too late to return them I assume?

lm/w is different with blue/purple LEDs than with white LEDs. I'm not worried about lm/w output, but take a look at the spectrum... Even V300 ones has about 0.1-0.15 more useful red spectrum than V450 does... That basically means that they are way worse in flowering. I do not use CO2 so high IR spectrum that V450s provides is also useless for me. God fxxking damn it, I just looked at their V600 spectrum analysis which was provided in their listing and made a conclusion that all V series are made the same. In fact, they are, except for this fxxking V450 model...

I was going to order 6x V300 at first and it would save me 40€. Why the hell I changed my mind.... Higher PAR output - that's why. But PAR will not help with such a low red spectrum.

Probably not too late to return. I just got them few days ago and didn't use it yet. 2 of 4 boxes are still unopened. I sent a return request via eBay few minutes ago. But I got them from another country and they weight over 30 pounds so shipping back will cost probably around 100€ or so... Lesson learned. But I will return them anyway. I hope so.

 

[growingforfun]

lm/w is different with blue/purple LEDs than with white LEDs. I'm not worried about lm/w output, but take a look at the spectrum... Even V300 ones has about 0.1-0.15 more useful red spectrum than V450 does... That basically means that they are way worse in flowering. I do not use CO2 so high IR spectrum that V450s provides is also useless for me. God fxxking damn it, I just looked at their V600 spectrum analysis which was provided in their listing and made a conclusion that all V series are made the same. In fact, they are, except for this fxxking V450 model...

I was going to order 6x V300 at first and it would save me 40€. Why the hell I changed my mind.... Higher PAR output - that's why. But PAR will not help with such a low red spectrum.

Probably not too late to return. I just got them few days ago and didn't use it yet. 2 of 4 boxes are still unopened. I sent a return request via eBay few minutes ago. But I got them from another country and they weight over 30 pounds so shipping back will cost probably around 100€ or so... Lesson learned. But I will return them anyway. I hope so.

Yes call it lesson learned for sure.. there are good lights on ebay, but I would strongly advise staying away from anything burple. They can grow bud, sure. But they are pretty much as effective as an hps watt for watt, at a higher price point.

The quantum boards with included heat sinks are the best $$/watt light you can get on ebay/amazon right now, the are almost as good as the real deal hlg quantum boards, at around 1/2 or so the price.

 

[KBRA7]

Could you please give me more info, what are you talking about? Brand, url, etc... Or give a link to ebay on what to search for? I'll admit I'm kinda noob when we talking about LEDs...

Mars Hydro TS series is probably one of them, Mars SP, what else?

 

[coreywebster]

Yes, I have more than 35w/sq ft.
Sorry, my bad. There's spectrum analysis of V450, but that still does not change much...

No doubt there's some better options pricewise but there's what I already have: 4x V450s + 2x TS1000s and a bunch of 250w HPS. I'll probably add some fans onto TS1000s to reduce heat.

Anyway, thanks for advice, guys. I'll use TS1000s then for my autoflowers. Others are still vegging.

Would it be wise to use 2x250w HPS between Viparspectra's to increase red spectrum when all of my plants will go into full bloom mode? I don't really need any more light in my tent, but it might be a good idea to add some red spectrum... Something like this:

Whatcha think? I hate the idea about adding HPS because those hot f*kers was the main reason why I bought LEDs in the first place... But if it will make a huge difference - I'll add some.

All lights are hot mate, its the perception of the heat and the way it comes off the light that's different.
Your not really cutting heat unless your using really good LEDs which would allow you to use less watts and be less heat.
Vipars are a great example of a non upgrade, to have enough of them to compare to the hps would be the same heat in the end.
One thing the HPS has over those Vipar is you can air cool the bulb and remove a lot of the heat that way.

I don't see a problem with using hps and vipar but you would need them a lot higher to blend those spectrums and of course its going to be a lot hotter.

 

[coreywebster]

Regardless of the vipar spectrum, they are 200w lights that cover 2x2, that means you need 8 of them to light up your 8x4 tent.
That's 1600w. Which cant be air cooled. Compared to 2x 600w hps which can be air cooled.

That's 1600w of heat vs 1200w which when air cooled will be around 800w of heat in your space.
That's not achieving a drop in heat no matter which way you look at it.

Even if you had put in 2x 1000w hps and air cooled you would be looking at around 1300-1400w of heat.

The idea that LED reduces heat works on the principle that the LED is much more efficient and these cheap LEDs are not.

Though if you compare to an incandescent light bulb they are way more efficient , because incandescent is terrible. But we don't grow with incandescent and HPS is miles ahead of it.

Mars lights used to be much the same, but due to the fact they have their eye on the ball they have come on leaps and bounds in the last couple of years, they are very good at following sales trends.


Quality LEDs that could cut your power usage and heat down are not cheap.
You want to be looking at for example Horticultural lighting group, though I could maybe offer different options if I knew what part of the world you lived.
Just as an example a 260w hlg quantum board will cover 2x4 of your space.

Because your looking at vipar spectra and saying things like "cheap" I have to assume you don't have $800-$1200 to light up a 4x8, which is why Im bringing HPS into the conversation , which is literally cheaper than even cheap LEDs but will perform well.

Hopefully you can make sense of my comments. I don't function well without coffee and the fricking supermarket is not open yet.

 

[KBRA7]

Regardless of the vipar spectrum, they are 200w lights that cover 2x2, that means you need 8 of them to light up your 8x4 tent.
That's 1600w. Which cant be air cooled. Compared to 2x 600w hps which can be air cooled.

That's 1600w of heat vs 1200w which when air cooled will be around 800w of heat in your space.
That's not achieving a drop in heat no matter which way you look at it.

Even if you had put in 2x 1000w hps and air cooled you would be looking at around 1300-1400w of heat.

The idea that LED reduces heat works on the principle that the LED is much more efficient and these cheap LEDs are not.

Though if you compare to an incandescent light bulb they are way more efficient , because incandescent is terrible. But we don't grow with incandescent and HPS is miles ahead of it.

Mars lights used to be much the same, but due to the fact they have their eye on the ball they have come on leaps and bounds in the last couple of years, they are very good at following sales trends.


Quality LEDs that could cut your power usage and heat down are not cheap.
You want to be looking at for example Horticultural lighting group, though I could maybe offer different options if I knew what part of the world you lived.
Just as an example a 260w hlg quantum board will cover 2x4 of your space.

Because your looking at vipar spectra and saying things like "cheap" I have to assume you don't have $800-$1200 to light up a 4x8, which is why Im bringing HPS into the conversation , which is literally cheaper than even cheap LEDs but will perform well.

Hopefully you can make sense of my comments. I don't function well without coffee and the fricking supermarket is not open yet.

Hey. Thanks for the input.

I have full HPS setup for my tent, but it gets too hot in here even with an AC unit.
Vipar looked like a good idea at first, when I didn't know sh*t about LEDs.
You guys in America has a great stuff and here in Europe we really don't. A small HLG QB setup costs around 300 Brittish pounds from ebay + shipping.

My budget to light this tent up is around 800-900€.
And I also use only 3/4 of my tent so it's more like 6x4 tent. 2x Mars Hydro TS1000s I got will cover 2x4. And for left 4x4 space I will buy 2x Mars SP250s. Those are great budget lights with the efficiency of 1.8PPFD/W and has perfect light distribution. It also uses MeanWell driver. Will definitely get those after Viparspectra will accept my return.

Even MIGRO said it's a decent light:

 

[coreywebster]

Hey. Thanks for the input.

I have full HPS setup for my tent, but it gets too hot in here even with an AC unit.
Vipar looked like a good idea at first, when I didn't know sh*t about LEDs.
You guys in America has a great stuff and here in Europe we really don't. A small HLG QB setup costs around 300 Brittish pounds from ebay + shipping.

My budget to light this tent up is around 800-900€.
And I also use only 3/4 of my tent so it's more like 6x4 tent. 2x Mars Hydro TS1000s I got will cover 2x4. And for left 4x4 space I will buy 2x Mars SP250s. Those are great budget lights with the efficiency of 1.8PPFD/W and has perfect light distribution. It also uses MeanWell driver. Will definitely get those after Viparspectra will accept my return.

Even MIGRO said it's a decent light:

Im English, I know what you mean, I got my first quantum boards from USA and built my first COB light with parts from USA and china.
But we do have some good shops over here these days.

Yeah Vipar spectra and most of those style lights rely on the customer not knowing any better. They are all copies of a copy made with the cheapest parts. Folks plug them in and they light up so they leave a glowing review on amazon for the next noob to read and so the cycle continues.

You should start researching building your own high performing LED. Your bound to DIY eventually, we all do...

MIGRO's a good dude. I like his tests.

Happy growing dude.

 

[KBRA7]

Im English, I know what you mean, I got my first quantum boards from USA and built my first COB light with parts from USA and china.
But we do have some good shops over here these days.

Yeah Vipar spectra and most of those style lights rely on the customer not knowing any better. They are all copies of a copy made with the cheapest parts. Folks plug them in and they light up so they leave a glowing review on amazon for the next noob to read and so the cycle continues.

You should start researching building your own high performing LED. Your bound to DIY eventually, we all do...

MIGRO's a good dude. I like his tests.

Happy growing dude.

Thanks, man!
I'm a guy who still uses HPS so there's a looong way to go until DIY projects will come in place. But I dig what you're saying...
BTW, I just plugged in my TS1000s and tbh I'm quite impressed Can't wait to get my hands on their SP250s.

 

[jondamon]

Thanks, man!
I'm a guy who still uses HPS so there's a looong way to go until DIY projects will come in place. But I dig what you're saying...
BTW, I just plugged in my TS1000s and tbh I'm quite impressed Can't wait to get my hands on their SP250s.

With the correctly designed extraction system you can control HPS heat even in high heat conditions.

I too live in the U.K.

I currently grow using a single 400w HPS.

My setup consists of the following.

Room 7ft x 3.3ft x 8ft
Active growing area 3ft X 3ft

RVK150A1 fan - 450m3/h centrifugal fan

Rhino pro carbon filter - 900m3/h

Adjust a wing reflector

400w HPS/MH lamps

400w maxibright digital ballast mounted outside of my grow area.

SMS fan speed controller

Oscillating fan inside the grow.

I also use from time to time

HUMIDIFIER 50w
Dehumidifier 200w
Tubular Heater 80w

This allows me to grow using my 400w all year round regardless of weather.

I could if I wanted to use 2x400w in air cooled reflectors.

It’s mainly about specking everything correctly in order to fit your space.

Air temps In the UK over the last few weeks have been peaking at 28C at times.

My room currently runs between 25C and 21C.

I INTAKE my cool air from my soffits and exhaust into my attic area which is being exhausted via roof vents.

For an HID light you must add 15% on to your fan needs.

For any long duct runs you must add 5-10% extra on your fan requirements.

For a carbon filter you must add 20% on to your fan requirements for the additional restriction it places on your system.

So you start to see what’s required when ventilating your area.

Couple this with the simple rule of INTAKE air from a cool source!

EXHAUST old air away from the grow/room your grow is located in.

These things mean within reason that you can run any HID rig setup anywhere within reason.

Assume that if you need AC for your house to stay cool that your grow will need AC for it to stay cool.

 

[hillbill]

First time for me to recommend a Mars product. Given the choices, the Mars. I would also check HLG kits and lights for really good lights.
Hortibloom has incredible sale price on COB fixtures (RIU advertiser).

 

[resinousflowers420]

With the correctly designed extraction system you can control HPS heat even in high heat conditions.

I too live in the U.K.

I currently grow using a single 400w HPS.

My setup consists of the following.

Room 7ft x 3.3ft x 8ft
Active growing area 3ft X 3ft

RVK150A1 fan - 450m3/h centrifugal fan

Rhino pro carbon filter - 900m3/h

Adjust a wing reflector

400w HPS/MH lamps

400w maxibright digital ballast mounted outside of my grow area.

SMS fan speed controller

Oscillating fan inside the grow.

I also use from time to time

HUMIDIFIER 50w
Dehumidifier 200w
Tubular Heater 80w

This allows me to grow using my 400w all year round regardless of weather.

I could if I wanted to use 2x400w in air cooled reflectors.

It’s mainly about specking everything correctly in order to fit your space.

Air temps In the UK over the last few weeks have been peaking at 28C at times.

My room currently runs between 25C and 21C.

I INTAKE my cool air from my soffits and exhaust into my attic area which is being exhausted via roof vents.

For an HID light you must add 15% on to your fan needs.

For any long duct runs you must add 5-10% extra on your fan requirements.

For a carbon filter you must add 20% on to your fan requirements for the additional restriction it places on your system.

So you start to see what’s required when ventilating your area.

Couple this with the simple rule of INTAKE air from a cool source!

EXHAUST old air away from the grow/room your grow is located in.

These things mean within reason that you can run any HID rig setup anywhere within reason.

Assume that if you need AC for your house to stay cool that your grow will need AC for it to stay cool.

2x 400 watt lights in a 3x3 tent would be overkill,and hard to control the heat.plus fitting 2 aircooled hoods in that space would be tight.
it would make more sense just to put 1 600 watter in there at most.