Outdoor shed conversion

[Dryxi]

A bit long of a post. Ty for reading if you make it to the end.

So I am starting the planning process of my next grow. I spent a year growing in a basement in a 5x5 tent. I found that I really couldn't control my environment well. Everything was always dependent on how the weather was outside. If it was super humid (all summer), it was the same in my basement even after buying a compact2 dehuey to run down there. Temp fluctuations were not fun and I didnt want to try to add an ac or heater to the tent. Attempting to control the basement through central ac/heat was not working.

For my next grow I am going to move to an outdoor wooden shed and put in the time and money to create a sealed personal grow. (I do not sell and grow for myself/wifey). I am hoping to see if I can get suggestions and criticism on my plan before the money starts flowing away from me.

Shed dimensions: 18ft x 10 usable space inside.
Lights on hand: 4 315w CMH, 1 550 HLG led Plan: eventually move to 2 or 3 of the 550s and use the CMH as additional lighting for the spectrums)
Growing Style: I currently grow notill in a 4x4 planter bed using soil from BAS. It is a little over a year old. Not a standard perpetual grow in that I wont be rushing to get new plants into the flower room the second I harvest or anything. Plan: I want to add another 4x4 bed and have a total of 4x8 of actual ground space being used by the beds)
Watering: I have used sub-irrigation watering for my last grows but really found I have to water from the top as well just to keep the soil moist. Moving to blumats for the beds. I have water supplied to the shed through rainwater system that fills 2 50 gal water containers.

I haven't bought a minisplit yet, but that is the plan. Not sure which one I want, but I have a friend that can charge the lines if needed and install. Was thinking about the DIY mr.cools but haven't made up my mind on anything. Also not positive how big it will need to be to accomplish what I want (stable environment)

For insulation, I plan on spending the money and having it spray foam insulated with closed cell foam. I cannot insulate the floors underneath, and am not sure how necessary that would be. The planter beds will be sitting on top of about 6 inches of growstones in a 4x4 plastic tubs, so not touching the ground. I will be sealing the floor and waterproofing it in some way.

For CO2 I plan to use some of the brewing designs found on this forum. I have literally no idea how much co2 that is going to produce but I plan on building a couple arduino setups to monitor co2,temp, and humidity (as well as control my minisplit and dehuey). I'll move to tanks if I find it wont work out. Not necessarily going for 1300 ppm as much as have at a bare minimum 400ish. More is better here I know, but essential.

For venting: I will run an exhaust/intake fan on an automatic damper, to keep it sealed, at lights out to help remove ethylene buildup. Not sure what size fans I might need. I dont think i need to vent the air at the whole 1-2 min air exchange considering i could just slowly vent it throughout the night right? Never built or been inside a good sealed room so i am going off what i have seen here. I will make sure i have a nice hepa filter on the intake. I will also have a phresh carbon filter on the exhaust as well as another carbon filter in the room hooked to a 400 cfm to use as a scrubber in the flower room.

Lastly for the layout, I am thinking I put up a wall/door to separate the shed into two rooms. The back half would be 12x10 flower room (should be plenty of space to work with the plants and have 2 feet at least on all sides. In the tent, it was much tighter and inconvenient). The flower room will have the spray foam. For front half (6x10), I am thinking I will use batts and it will be in this room that I do cloning/prop as well as do some vegging/keep moms (which I dont currently have yet). Not positive how I would set that up, but thinking I would do vegging under some shelving I'll build and clone/prop above it. Then I would also have space for whatever else I might want in that room.

Not sure if I should put the dehuey inside the flower room or not (hanging) and/or if I should move all ballasts into the front room as well.

I think an issue I am seeing already as I type this is that the flower room will be sealed with the spray foam and wont be sharing the ac with the front room unless I buy a 2 zone minisplit. So maybe doing the batts/spray foam combo wont work out. Cant succeed if I dont have a good plan first.

Any suggestions or ideas? Goals are to save money where I can, but not really be giving up too much in the process.

 

[hotrodharley]

A bit long of a post. Ty for reading if you make it to the end.

So I am starting the planning process of my next grow. I spent a year growing in a basement in a 5x5 tent. I found that I really couldn't control my environment well. Everything was always dependent on how the weather was outside. If it was super humid (all summer), it was the same in my basement even after buying a compact2 dehuey to run down there. Temp fluctuations were not fun and I didnt want to try to add an ac or heater to the tent. Attempting to control the basement through central ac/heat was not working.

For my next grow I am going to move to an outdoor wooden shed and put in the time and money to create a sealed personal grow. (I do not sell and grow for myself/wifey). I am hoping to see if I can get suggestions and criticism on my plan before the money starts flowing away from me.

Shed dimensions: 18ft x 10 usable space inside.
Lights on hand: 4 315w CMH, 1 550 HLG led Plan: eventually move to 2 or 3 of the 550s and use the CMH as additional lighting for the spectrums)
Growing Style: I currently grow notill in a 4x4 planter bed using soil from BAS. It is a little over a year old. Not a standard perpetual grow in that I wont be rushing to get new plants into the flower room the second I harvest or anything. Plan: I want to add another 4x4 bed and have a total of 4x8 of actual ground space being used by the beds)
Watering: I have used sub-irrigation watering for my last grows but really found I have to water from the top as well just to keep the soil moist. Moving to blumats for the beds. I have water supplied to the shed through rainwater system that fills 2 50 gal water containers.

I haven't bought a minisplit yet, but that is the plan. Not sure which one I want, but I have a friend that can charge the lines if needed and install. Was thinking about the DIY mr.cools but haven't made up my mind on anything. Also not positive how big it will need to be to accomplish what I want (stable environment)

For insulation, I plan on spending the money and having it spray foam insulated with closed cell foam. I cannot insulate the floors underneath, and am not sure how necessary that would be. The planter beds will be sitting on top of about 6 inches of growstones in a 4x4 plastic tubs, so not touching the ground. I will be sealing the floor and waterproofing it in some way.

For CO2 I plan to use some of the brewing designs found on this forum. I have literally no idea how much co2 that is going to produce but I plan on building a couple arduino setups to monitor co2,temp, and humidity (as well as control my minisplit and dehuey). I'll move to tanks if I find it wont work out. Not necessarily going for 1300 ppm as much as have at a bare minimum 400ish. More is better here I know, but essential.

For venting: I will run an exhaust/intake fan on an automatic damper, to keep it sealed, at lights out to help remove ethylene buildup. Not sure what size fans I might need. I dont think i need to vent the air at the whole 1-2 min air exchange considering i could just slowly vent it throughout the night right? Never built or been inside a good sealed room so i am going off what i have seen here. I will make sure i have a nice hepa filter on the intake. I will also have a phresh carbon filter on the exhaust as well as another carbon filter in the room hooked to a 400 cfm to use as a scrubber in the flower room.

Lastly for the layout, I am thinking I put up a wall/door to separate the shed into two rooms. The back half would be 12x10 flower room (should be plenty of space to work with the plants and have 2 feet at least on all sides. In the tent, it was much tighter and inconvenient). The flower room will have the spray foam. For front half (6x10), I am thinking I will use batts and it will be in this room that I do cloning/prop as well as do some vegging/keep moms (which I dont currently have yet). Not positive how I would set that up, but thinking I would do vegging under some shelving I'll build and clone/prop above it. Then I would also have space for whatever else I might want in that room.

Not sure if I should put the dehuey inside the flower room or not (hanging) and/or if I should move all ballasts into the front room as well.

I think an issue I am seeing already as I type this is that the flower room will be sealed with the spray foam and wont be sharing the ac with the front room unless I buy a 2 zone minisplit. So maybe doing the batts/spray foam combo wont work out. Cant succeed if I dont have a good plan first.

Any suggestions or ideas? Goals are to save money where I can, but not really be giving up too much in the process.

You have lights covered. The CO2 by homebrew is basically a lot for very little. Suggest using the money and space for something else.

https://www.htgsupply.com/informationcenter/ask-the-doc/gardening-articles/understanding-ventilation/

 

[Dryxi]

You have lights covered. The CO2 by homebrew is basically a lot for very little. Suggest using the money and space for something else.

https://www.htgsupply.com/informationcenter/ask-the-doc/gardening-articles/understanding-ventilation/

So you dont think the home brew stuff is worth it, should I just go ahead and do tanks then? Not a fan of buying a generator atm.

Regarding ventilation, I understand how I would need to use it if I was using it for cooling but my plan was the ventilation is only for removing ethylene buildup and not for a cooling aspect. With that in mind wouldn't I actually need less rather than more ventilation? I mean I could also go bigger and just clear the room quickly and then the minisplit takes over again, but wouldn't my temps then fluctuate quickly to whatever is going on outside and then I am back to trying to cool the room back down to where I actually want it. The link you gave is more about using ventilation for the cooling aspects which is not quite what I am after. It is a sealed room that ventilates solely for lessening buildup rather than using it to cool my room and equipment. I have 0 experience in this situation, over where I was sizing my fans for a tent and the fans were responsible for cooling. Pretty sure I've seen that link and bunch others on ventilation but they are all assuming I am venting for cooling which isnt quite the case. Thanks for the help!

 

[hotrodharley]

So you dont think the home brew stuff is worth it, should I just go ahead and do tanks then? Not a fan of buying a generator atm.

Regarding ventilation, I understand how I would need to use it if I was using it for cooling but my plan was the ventilation is only for removing ethylene buildup and not for a cooling aspect. With that in mind wouldn't I actually need less rather than more ventilation? I mean I could also go bigger and just clear the room quickly and then the minisplit takes over again, but wouldn't my temps then fluctuate quickly to whatever is going on outside and then I am back to trying to cool the room back down to where I actually want it. The link you gave is more about using ventilation for the cooling aspects which is not quite what I am after. It is a sealed room that ventilates solely for lessening buildup rather than using it to cool my room and equipment. I have 0 experience in this situation, over where I was sizing my fans for a tent and the fans were responsible for cooling. Pretty sure I've seen that link and bunch others on ventilation but they are all assuming I am venting for cooling which isnt quite the case. Thanks for the help!

My experience with the homebrew and the bags show little benefit compared to the cost and effort. If you are sold on CO2 I suggest tanks and a controller.

 

[Dryxi]

My experience with the homebrew and the bags show little benefit compared to the cost and effort. If you are sold on CO2 I suggest tanks and a controller.

Ya plan is to build my own controller out of arduino (or similar item). I am totally open to using a tank over the home brewing, just seemed interesting and I am hoping there might be someone here who has tried to use home brewing solely for their co2 needs.

 

[OldMedUser]

Personally I think you're better off staying in the basement and setting up it's environment properly for a lot less cost than refurbishing a shed. My basement grow room takes up about a 1/5th of the space down there and has fairly even temps using a Temp/RH controller on my exhaust fan. I draw my air from the rest of the basement so have more even temps than pulling from outside where it goes from +35C in the summer down to -35C in the winter. Basement only moves from maybe +20 - +5C. No heat or A/C down there except for the heater in the grow room on a thermostat for their night time.

If you're planning on growing lots for commercial purposes then maybe the expense is worth it.

If brewing is a steady hobby then you could probably keep the CO2 levels up enough. I bought a CO2 controller a couple years ago and by experimenting a bit found I can keep the grow room up over 1500ppm with just a candle but made an alcohol lamp to burn methyl hydrate and that does the trick just fine burning about 100ml/day. I only bother during the stretch when the boost really makes a big difference. Regular air exchange is good enough until I can build the sealed room I'd really like but I've got lots of pot for me and friends the last 18 years without it.

Good luck with it!

 

[Dryxi]

Personally I think you're better off staying in the basement and setting up it's environment properly for a lot less cost than refurbishing a shed.

...

If brewing is a steady hobby then you could probably keep the CO2 levels up enough. I bought a CO2 controller a couple years ago and by experimenting a bit found I can keep the grow room up over 1500ppm with just a candle but made an alcohol lamp to burn methyl hydrate and that does the trick just fine burning about 100ml/day. I only bother during the stretch when the boost really makes a big difference. Regular air exchange is good enough until I can build the sealed room I'd really like but I've got lots of pot for me and friends the last 18 years without it.

Good luck with it!

Basement isnt an option anymore since that house is being sold and next house being bought does not have a basement. I have rooms inside I can use but the shed would be much more convenient since I regularly have family and guests coming to visit and have a room closed off to them will cause suspicisons I dont want. Profit from the house sale is how I am building the shed. Over the past year growing my own easily saved me enough money to warrant the upgrade to a sealed room and the shed is simply the best place since I dont often get people asking what's in a shed and expecting any answer other than storage.

I don't do brewing as a hobby atm but am never against a "safe" preferably tasty alcoholic by-product.

 

[BigHornBuds]

IDK , if you get snow but
The humming shed beside the house melting all the snow would be kinda suspicious to me .

 

[Dryxi]

IDK , if you get snow but
The humming shed beside the house melting all the snow would be kinda suspicious to me .

As far as I know closed cell insulation does a pretty good job soundproofing and insulating. I dont think either the roof snow would melt nor much sound escape. I am not too worried about those issues. I am dead set o the shed. For me personally it is the most convenient and I have the money atm to do a pretty good job (I think). I just have to figure out how to do it right.

 

[OldMedUser]

Basement isnt an option anymore since that house is being sold and next house being bought does not have a basement. I have rooms inside I can use but the shed would be much more convenient since I regularly have family and guests coming to visit and have a room closed off to them will cause suspicisons I dont want. Profit from the house sale is how I am building the shed. Over the past year growing my own easily saved me enough money to warrant the upgrade to a sealed room and the shed is simply the best place since I dont often get people asking what's in a shed and expecting any answer other than storage.

I don't do brewing as a hobby atm but am never against a "safe" preferably tasty alcoholic by-product.

A lot of new info now that I didn't have for my first response.

If it's a pitched roof shed you'll want to build a ceiling in there and vent the attic part. Put R40 insulation on top of the ceiling to prevent any heat melting snow, assuming you have snow, then it looks kosher. A storage shed shouldn't be melting but as you'll be going in and out often all times of the year it may not be a problem. What guy doesn't have a work/hobby shop to escape the domesticity of the manor.

We live in the boonies so I don't have to worry about nosy neighbours looking over my fence. Trees all around so so they couldn't even spy on me with a scope. Stinks of pot all around the yard but now that home growing is legal here I didn't even bother unwrapping the new carbon filter I bought about 3 years ago. Closest neighbour will never smell it and wouldn't say squat even if he did.

A sealed room is definitely your best bet. Would look funny to have warm, moist air being vented on and off in the cold weather making big clouds of steam. As my room is underground I'm venting at ground level under my 20x40' shop and any steam is at the back of the house where again, no eyes can pry.

Instead of a mini-split as I was thinking of getting I'm now shopping around for a dual hose portable A/C unit as the minis supposedly won't work when it's below -10C or so I've heard and we're well below that for 5 months of the year. The price is comparable and maybe a bit lower depending where I can get it. I have never needed A/C ans still don't unless I go the sealed room route.

Check out the link. There's one book there called GrowRoomDesign6.pdf that might have some good ideas for you.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS . I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as many are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

 

[Dryxi]

A lot of new info now that I didn't have for my first response.

If it's a pitched roof shed you'll want to build a ceiling in there and vent the attic part. Put R40 insulation on top of the ceiling to prevent any heat melting snow, assuming you have snow, then it looks kosher. A storage shed shouldn't be melting but as you'll be going in and out often all times of the year it may not be a problem. What guy doesn't have a work/hobby shop to escape the domesticity of the manor.

We live in the boonies so I don't have to worry about nosy neighbours looking over my fence. Trees all around so so they couldn't even spy on me with a scope. Stinks of pot all around the yard but now that home growing is legal here I didn't even bother unwrapping the new carbon filter I bought about 3 years ago. Closest neighbour will never smell it and wouldn't say squat even if he did.

A sealed room is definitely your best bet. Would look funny to have warm, moist air being vented on and off in the cold weather making big clouds of steam. As my room is underground I'm venting at ground level under my 20x40' shop and any steam is at the back of the house where again, no eyes can pry.

Instead of a mini-split as I was thinking of getting I'm now shopping around for a dual hose portable A/C unit as the minis supposedly won't work when it's below -10C or so I've heard and we're well below that for 5 months of the year. The price is comparable and maybe a bit lower depending where I can get it. I have never needed A/C ans still don't unless I go the sealed room route.

Check out the link. There's one book there called GrowRoomDesign6.pdf that might have some good ideas for you.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS . I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as many are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

That is an awesome link. I'm surprised it's still up, I actually downloaded all of the books to my drive a while back. Everyone should see that

 

[myke]

Insulation in the floor walls and roof.Water proofing. Good electrical work.this is what you should be asking about.
Get some help from someone if building construction isn't your thing.

 

[Pmbreno]

Seal her up tight with the closed cell, pump co2, cool with the mini-split, big dehue, call it a day. I used to do all the venting and found I was spinning my wheels. Sealed it up tight and no issues anymore. That being said depending on the size of your canopy a 90 pint dehue will be the bare minimum, if I had a chance to go back I would have gotten at least a 120-150 pint. I have ran mr cools for years without issue, but due to living in a cold climate (they run down to 5 degrees) I have also used the dual hoses with miserable results. It will suck out all of your co2 causing you to go through a bottle every 5-7 days instead of every 3-4 weeks, also no matter how well you scrub the air the exhaust will smell. For winters I decided to go with a water chilled system using a 3 ton air to water heat exchanger that chills 35 gallons of polyglycol/water mix. That gets pumped to two 1 ton exchangers in flower and one in veg.
Little tip I found on here pre-build, don’t run electric in your walls. Run it on the outside in flexible conduit. We growers tend to like changing things around and that will give you more flexibility.
Best of luck with it!

 

[OldMedUser]

Get some help from someone if building construction isn't your thing.

I'd go for one of those kits a lot of lumber places sell. Basically a big jig-saw puzzle with instructions. Putting down a slab and getting an electrician in to do the wiring properly. Here you can do most of it yourself and then get it inspected. Dig your plumbing in too so it's safe.

I'd say it's going to be a pottery shack. They need lots of power so no one will ask questions tho lots of workshops need plenty of power too.

I'd love to have the coin to build a unit like that.

 

[Dryxi]

How important is the insulation in the floor? I understand plants on the floor would make it more important considering cold roots = slow plants, but if plants are not sitting on the floor. Since my plants wont be sitting on the floor, I dont think that will be a big impact. I doubt much heat is leaving through an uninsulated floor as much as cold is getting in. Could only impact me in the winter but my winters are not rough at at all, maybe we get down to 10F every once in a while but mostly above 30 most of the winter even at night.

Any opinions or experience with this? Open question directed at anyone.

 

[myke]

Is this new build?Or an existing building?

 

[Dryxi]

Is this new build?Or an existing building?

Existing shed. Insulating under the floor, doable but not easy at all. Adding another floor a couple inches above the current floor to add some insulation is doable (I plan on scrogging over growing a tall tree) but I am not sure how necessary such a investment actually is in my current situation.

 

[Pmbreno]

If you have the money and head room then insulate. An easy fix if it becomes an issue is you can set the plants up on spacers

 

[myke]

ok so floor is on back burner,you can pile up something on the outside.Electricity?? you need two 15 amp breakers min ,whats the plan there?

 

[Dryxi]

ok so floor is on back burner,you can pile up something on the outside.Electricity?? you need two 15 amp breakers min ,whats the plan there?

I am going to have a sub panel run to the shed and allow myself however many amps I calculate I need after figuring out what equipment I am going to be running.

*edited: took out saying I'll use 40 amps of 240v. Dont want to mislead anyone, I will have enough to run whatever I plan on running with a little bit to spare incase of upgrades etc.