Clumpyoyster
Well-Known Member
But much more work.
Why are so many new growers choosing blurple/led over hps/mh??
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Chip Green
Well-Known Member
Why are so many new growers choosing blurple LED over HPS/MH?
A combination of sales tactics, and a general lack of understanding of how LEDs actually work. For traditional grow lighting, for the average human, the only quantifiable measure of the lamp is "Watts" ...How many watts does it put out? None actually, Watts are a unit of consumption. A better question would be, how much light do I get for the watts it consumes....which is measurable, but that's another discussion....
Think of a diode like a speaker. A speaker
has a maximum amount of "power" it can handle. The more power provided by an amplifier, the louder the sound.
A LED itself (light emitting diode) works on a similar principal, only the light gets more intense, as the power provided, from the driver increases, until a certain point.
So, we build a fixture with 200x diodes capable of consuming 5w each....
In the eyes of a clever marketer, this makes this a 1000W LED.
However, since the driver is only actually supplying enough power to drive the diodes at 1w each, as an example, it's really only a 200W light....
Inflated, and downright false claims of equivalency, in comparison to HID is how many growers got "burned" by LEDs.
The wrong LEDs, and certainly in many cases, not enough LEDs per fixture, at the level of power they are being provided.
Another factor in the drama, is spectrum capabilities.
Quite often, the banner of "full spectrum" is substantially less than a full spectrum.
Purple light, from reds and blues. Plain old white LEDs have a "Fuller" spectrum alone.
Of course, things get far more in depth, but I generally leave that discussion for those far more advanced than I.
A combination of sales tactics, and a general lack of understanding of how LEDs actually work. For traditional grow lighting, for the average human, the only quantifiable measure of the lamp is "Watts" ...How many watts does it put out? None actually, Watts are a unit of consumption. A better question would be, how much light do I get for the watts it consumes....which is measurable, but that's another discussion....
Think of a diode like a speaker. A speaker
has a maximum amount of "power" it can handle. The more power provided by an amplifier, the louder the sound.
A LED itself (light emitting diode) works on a similar principal, only the light gets more intense, as the power provided, from the driver increases, until a certain point.
So, we build a fixture with 200x diodes capable of consuming 5w each....
In the eyes of a clever marketer, this makes this a 1000W LED.
However, since the driver is only actually supplying enough power to drive the diodes at 1w each, as an example, it's really only a 200W light....
Inflated, and downright false claims of equivalency, in comparison to HID is how many growers got "burned" by LEDs.
The wrong LEDs, and certainly in many cases, not enough LEDs per fixture, at the level of power they are being provided.
Another factor in the drama, is spectrum capabilities.
Quite often, the banner of "full spectrum" is substantially less than a full spectrum.
Purple light, from reds and blues. Plain old white LEDs have a "Fuller" spectrum alone.
Of course, things get far more in depth, but I generally leave that discussion for those far more advanced than I.
Clumpyoyster
Well-Known Member
Chip your kinda late chiming in after 17 pages know what I mean
Chip Green
Well-Known Member
Actually I don't follow...care to give a detailed explanation?
sandman83
Well-Known Member
You provided really good information but it has already gone along tribal lines into a pissing match. Probably lost in the white noise.
Sounds like you are correct with the marketing lingo to me.
printer
Well-Known Member
I read the whole 18 pages in one sitting. I may have to go and smoke something now.
Turning down the power on the Leds makes them more efficient, heat causes them to be less efficient. You could get a gain in light output by running them at less power then adding more Leds to get back up to the original power draw. At least from what I have read.
Actually I think the last three or four pages were the most useful.
Chip Green
Well-Known Member
Likely. But if it helps one single user, at any time during the life of this forum, it was worth the wall of text, and the small amount of e-paper utilized.
Powertech
Well-Known Member
When I got them they were only $119 each, now they are $149 each. Pricey and many can not afford them, I couldn't. I consider the light an investment though, one that has already paid me back. When you need an oz a week and you get it legally, it gets expensive very fast.
rustyshaclkferd
Well-Known Member
I got my eyes set on a gavita 1700, change out one room at a time
Powertech
Well-Known Member
I can only dream of things like that. That one light cost more than all the equipment I have combined lol. The tent I flower in has so many pin holes I have it covered in plastic, some of the poles have been replaced with 1/2" conduit, had to add a horizontal support on one wall (which works out as it is perfect for hanging clip fans), but i'll be growing in it with a smile on my face until my fortune changes
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rustyshaclkferd
Well-Known Member
well in my hey day I was running 12k watts out of this shit hole and energy bill as 1000+ a month, id did some Rusty math and the lights would have paid for them selves in a litte over 3 years in savings... yield is comparable so time is now or soon at least for my 4 x 8
ChrispyCritter
Well-Known Member
I got my first blurple light a LONG time ago when hps vs led was a relevant debate. It seems like this train has long departed. Maybe fistfight over qb/cobs vs hps or cmh? Or just a mega throw down cage matchof every light for itself? I know it's been done daily for a long time too but this time "all the lights enter the cage but only one walks out. " That light is right and all others are wrong regardless of growing conditions.
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Chesspoker84
Member
I think what is the "best" light, aka the most efficient in a long term, one very important factor is how much u pay for a KWh.
Here in Germany i pay about 0.30$ for a KWh, which is very high compared to the rest.
So i will replace my HPS with QB by the time, so that i can also grow between june and august.
But i'm still very satisfied with my 600W hps, they yield more than my former 4 years old mid to high end LED with 500W.
With low electricity costs i think i wouldn't replace them, but with 0.30$ the new QB have a better return on investment over all.
Here in Germany i pay about 0.30$ for a KWh, which is very high compared to the rest.
So i will replace my HPS with QB by the time, so that i can also grow between june and august.
But i'm still very satisfied with my 600W hps, they yield more than my former 4 years old mid to high end LED with 500W.
With low electricity costs i think i wouldn't replace them, but with 0.30$ the new QB have a better return on investment over all.
twalte
Well-Known Member
Great point! I’m still using 1000w MH/HPS lighting, but my electric cost in winter is only 6-8 cents per kWh. Summer rates are less than 13 cents. I’m having difficulty justifying an LED at those low rates for my small grow. But if electricity were in the 30 cent range, I think I’d be hesitant to keep running HPS.
Edit....Here’s a good cost calculator
Grow Room Electricity Calculator - What Will It Cost To Run My Lights?
A grow room electricity calculator will help you develop realistic expectations for the costs of running your lights. On top of the initial setup costs of your grow tent, lights, ventilation equipment, CO2, and more, you need to consider the monthly cost of running these components. The bulk...
hydrobuilder.com
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Powertech
Well-Known Member
I
I would kill to pay triple rate of 6.8 cents per kWh
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
Yeah a watt is a watt, but what do we get for that watt.
You have to remember that incandescent is one of the most useless types of light outside lighting our living rooms.
A cheap LED may seem incredible comparing it to incandescent but it still may be only 135 lumen per watt.
incandescent is 16 lm/w
compact fluorescent is 60 lm/w
average good led bulb 150 lm/w
HPS is 150+- lm/w
Metal Halide is 90 lm/w
Top end white diodes can be up to 200lm/w as it stands.
HPS isn't incandescent ,people don't grow with incandescents, there's also a huge variation with LED since the most efficient cost way more than the cheapest.
An LED can put out less light than a HID or a lot more. For the case of the cheaper ones you need the same wattage to cover the same space.
Interesting. I didn't come across those numbers. Thanks for clarifying.