BurtMaklin
Well-Known Member
That's funny, you didn't think it was fair when the electoral college essentially did the same and you ended up with Trump.
Funny what's "fair" as long as you're not losing.
Bernie Sanders 2020
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
Funny what's "fair" as long as you're not losing.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
oh look
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Dude, take a hard look at Warren. She's the real deal. Bernie is a college dropout who never accomplished anything. He built his campaign by appealing to anger, not logic. Now, that his back is against the wall, he's promoting himself by publishing fake news on his opponents. Trump IS the worst president we've ever had but I'm not in favor of shepherding in a Democratic president with a similar background and uses Trump's methods to fool people, not convince them.
BurtMaklin
Well-Known Member
You're right, and I agree, Warren is fine. I just don't think she goes far enough with her healthcare. The purpose of a single payer healthcare is bargaining power to keep costs lower for equal access, I fail to see how M4A for all who want it is going to do that. It will end up being a sub par version for those who can't afford better, because if it isn't equal, what's the point. Money wins again.
I view equal access to healthcare as a human right, I will not deviate on that issue, the cost is irrelevant to me.
I view equal access to healthcare as a human right, I will not deviate on that issue, the cost is irrelevant to me.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you can cite where you came up with the conclusion that she doesn't plan to lower cost in order to make it affordable to cover everybody?
Says right here that controlling costs is the first thing she's going to go after:
My First Term Plan for Reducing Health Care Costs in America | Elizabeth Warren
My plan for health care reverses the Trump Administration's sabotage of our health care, allows everyone in America to choose a Medicare for All option for little or no cost, and cuts costs for families before moving us into full Medicare for All
elizabethwarren.com
First two bullet points summarize her objectives to control costs. Later in the plan she details how.
Here’s what I'll do in my first 100 days:
- I’ll pursue comprehensive anti-corruption reforms to rein in health insurers and drug companies – reforms that are essential to make any meaningful health care changes in Washington.
- I’ll use the tools of the presidency to start improving coverage and lowering costs – immediately. I’ll reverse Donald Trump’s sabotage of health care, protect individuals with pre-existing conditions, take on the big pharmaceutical companies to lower costs of key drugs for millions of Americans, and improve the Affordable Care Act, Medicare, and Medicaid.
We've argued many times and this time I'm not arguing. I'm pointing you to where I got my info. If you've seen something definitive (not some posturing by a perma-berner), I'd be glad to see it.
Bernie has provided little in the way of a detailed transition plan. He submitted a half-finished bill that contains no details about how to pay for it, much less how to make the transition.
Given Sanders track record of zero accomplishments over twelve years in the Senate and the shoddy work shown in his healthcare bill, we can't expect him to do better as prez. Warren on the other hand has accolades as a PhD lawyer who specializes in bankruptcy law, taught at major universities, has working knowledge of government through her time spent in both the Obama administration and as chairman of major committee on bank regulations in Congress and was basically hated by Obama's administration because she didn't let them off easily when it came to banking regulations. While their policies are similar, the difference between the two can't be greater in substance.
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Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
So now that liar Bernie Sanders is being compared to MLK...
That annoys me. I think if Bernie manages to steal the nomination, I might have to consider abstaining from the vote. This is getting downright offensive.
That annoys me. I think if Bernie manages to steal the nomination, I might have to consider abstaining from the vote. This is getting downright offensive.
blu3bird
Well-Known Member
BurtMaklin
Well-Known Member
Like I said before, I'm not a diehard Bernie guy, but I don't think he's a bad guy nor do I think that he has a nefarious motive and don't believe he or his supporters deserve the hate being thrown their way.Perhaps you can cite where you came up with the conclusion that she doesn't plan to lower cost in order to make it affordable to cover everybody?
Says right here that controlling costs is the first thing she's going to go after:
My First Term Plan for Reducing Health Care Costs in America | Elizabeth Warren
My plan for health care reverses the Trump Administration's sabotage of our health care, allows everyone in America to choose a Medicare for All option for little or no cost, and cuts costs for families before moving us into full Medicare for All
First two bullet points summarize her objectives to control costs. Later in the plan she details how.
Here’s what I'll do in my first 100 days:
She doesn't plan to stop at "improving the ACA" but details how she plans to transition our healthcare system from "Medicare for all who want it" to single payer medical care for all. She claims and details how she can do it in three years though I have my doubts about that. She calls it Medicare for All but after the transition is complete, it will be better than what we now call Medicare.
- I’ll pursue comprehensive anti-corruption reforms to rein in health insurers and drug companies – reforms that are essential to make any meaningful health care changes in Washington.
- I’ll use the tools of the presidency to start improving coverage and lowering costs – immediately. I’ll reverse Donald Trump’s sabotage of health care, protect individuals with pre-existing conditions, take on the big pharmaceutical companies to lower costs of key drugs for millions of Americans, and improve the Affordable Care Act, Medicare, and Medicaid.
We've argued many times and this time I'm not arguing. I'm pointing you to where I got my info. If you've seen something definitive (not some posturing by a perma-berner), I'd be glad to see it.
Bernie has provided little in the way of a detailed transition plan. He submitted a half-finished bill that contains no details about how to pay for it, much less how to make the transition.
Given Sanders track record of zero accomplishments over twelve years in the Senate and the shoddy work shown in his healthcare bill, we can't expect him to do better as prez. Warren on the other hand has accolades as a PhD lawyer who specializes in bankruptcy law, taught at major universities, has working knowledge of government through her time spent in both the Obama administration and as chairman of major committee on bank regulations in Congress and was basically hated by Obama's administration because she didn't let them off easily when it came to banking regulations. While their policies are similar, the difference between the two can't be greater in substance.
A three year plan that allows the privileged to keep their plan while people play politics just isn't resonating with people in desperate situations (Even though it will take just as long if Bernie ever gets his bill passed).
Unfortunately I don't think that Warren is as tapped into their sense of urgency as old Bernie is, and that little stunt she pulled with the "he said a woman can't win", that no one else heard, just shows that she is too far removed from the reality of the people she needs as supporters if she's gonna win.
I think if it was Warren vs Hillary, she would have easily walked away with it. Perhaps it's a question of timing, because 3 years of Trump has made peoples situations much more dire. I think she made a mistake by stepping out of the way for Hillary's ambitions.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Good because he's really just garbage.
BurtMaklin
Well-Known Member
Uh oh, hypocrisy in 3, 2, 1...
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
Fuck Bernie Sanders. I don't want him to be potus. It will be counterproductive and likely damage the country. It will likely not damage the country as much as Trump is, but I don't see him solving a fucking thing.
BurtMaklin
Well-Known Member
Mmmmkay. So you having to pay a couple bucks more for the countries healthcare system and subsidizing post secondary education is going to be the straw that broke America's back, not the decades of corruption and corporate welfare.
Duly noted.
abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
What are you even talking about? There is nothing in his agenda that congress will be willing to work with him on. He will get nothing done for the same reason he has never gotten anything done, because he's a useless fucking bonehead populist who gets elected and reelected based on promises he will never come close to keeping, ever. In fact, he has always been a liability to the very causes he ostensibly supports because his failure to make progress on them puts them even further out of reach. He knows this, he has always known this and now he's lying about other candidates to stay relevant because he is dying. He's 78 and recently had a myocardial infarction. Two stents were placed in his fucking ventricle and he will be dead soon.
Also, Trump got elected in large part because of his little movement that fractured the DNC.
Fuck Bernie Sanders. I hope that piece of shit dies knowing he has never helped his country one fucking bit.
I'm sure you won't cry over this post because as you said, you're not a die hard Bernie guy.
blu3bird
Well-Known Member
Why would I want to subsidize someone else's college education? That is something I'm vehemently against. If someone wants education beyond high school, that is the choice they make and that is up to them to assume financial responsibility for their choice, not me.
Why are you trying to contribute to a weak and dependent society of people that feel they have no responsibility for their choice?
Justin-case
Well-Known Member
I would agree if college was more affordable. Education is always a good investment. Those kids will be paying your social security some day.
luvtogrow
Well-Known Member
The democratic party appears to be loaded with phony liars. We should for sure have the government take our money for great investments for the future of all. Take my money for education, global warming, health care(for all), ssi payouts, food stamps, housing, program upon program, for the multimillions in government jobs (and their pensions), and on and on and on. Warren and Sanders can come up with more human rights needs that I can give them more money for. It's only fair I give my families money to strangers that don't, can't or won't want to work.
Justin-case
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry you're so poor,
Warren wants to help blue collar middle class families be more successful,
What's wrong with that?
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Why do you 'feel' that the Democrats are lying?
I would point to the FACT that the Democrats have only had about 6 years in the last 50 that they are able to get things done for all of the people in our country, and at least half of that was spent trying to fix the economic messes the Republican party dropped in their laps.
It has been 50 years of clawing total political and economic power away from the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda, and we are finally to the point that one party is pretty much there. And what happened when a Black man got power of the Presidency and had the House and Senate to get shit done?
He brought health insurance to 92% of Americans, fixed a severely broken economy, passed banking and finance reform to stop predatory lending to minority communities, etc. And as a response, the trolling started hard and we got the "Tea Party", and the full press obstruction from the Republicans ever since, which lasts to this day.
I think that if you look at the full history of what people have been trying to do in the Democratic party for the last 50 years instead of just believing the trolling by the cat fishing trolls on the 'left' you would see we all have the same goals. It is just slightly different ways to get to the same place. The lie that there is some 'elite' arm of the Democratic party keeping progress back is a troll that is complete bullshit.
BurtMaklin
Well-Known Member
Ok, Trump. Enjoy your single, bitter life that's all about you. You're the embodiment of the "American" that plasters everything he owns with American flag stickers, but doesn't give a flying shit about his country if he thinks he has to contribute to something bigger than himself.