Harvest a Pound Every Three Weeks!

offgridgrower

Well-Known Member
anyone else running into an issue with the pH climbing in the aerocloner? I measured the pH today and it was up at 7.7. Some of my young seedlings have the leaves starting to twist and turn at the edges and I'm hoping this is just a pH problem. They have no nutes yet and it's not a heat issue so I'm pretty certain that it's pH.

I'd just like to hear some other opinions on this.

Thanks, DP
yeah i have been noting that my ph has been rising, seems to take a few days to rise past the ok point. at first i thought it was the tap water so i switched to distilled water, but that rose too, so now I dont know what is causing it, so i just keep a daily check on it now.

note to using distilled water, it takes VERY little of the gh up and down to change the ph, be warned!!
 

DIRTHAWKER

Well-Known Member
'Houston' ""we may have a problem"" Im still about 1-2 weeks away from getting my flower room up and running, and the roots in my veg system are already into the reservoir water.
 

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
hey stink, have you experimented with different on/off times of your sprayers? if so, what were the results?
I tried 4 minutes off and 1 minute on. I've also tried 5 minutes off and 30-45 seconds on. I didn't notice any difference in growth rates. I think any time that is close to 5/1 will work.

I'm too much of a pussy to try anything extreme.

also, in your own opinion do u feel your aero/nft setup provides the best final result in regards to yield compared to ebb and flow? what made you do the aero/nft route anyways? THANKS for all the great info! Keep up the GREAT work!
I've been growing for over 14 years. I've always been a hardcore organic soil kind of guy. I never found the taste of hydro to be as good as soil. I wanted to switch but I wasn't willing to give up the flavor.

I also prefer to give my patients organically grown bud for safety reasons.

Recently many major nutrient companies have jumped on the organic bandwagon. They are making the finest organic teas that you and I could only dream of making ourselves. This one fact has opened up the window of hydroponics for me.

I was looking into an ebb and flow setup. I was also looking at DWC type systems. I knew Aeroponics was the best but I thought that it would be to complex for me at the time.

As luck would have it I met my mentor about the same time as I was looking to switch to hydro. He turned me on to Aeroponics. I took his knowledge and went from there.

Things that worked I kept. Things that didn't I shit canned. After awhile I came up with my 3 part system. There is not any one factor that makes my system unique. It's the whole system working together.

What's cool is we are actually watching history being made. The concept of what we are doing with the internet right now has never been done in all of history.

Think about it for a second...we are all working together...complete strangers helping each other out.

Why? ...for no other reason than love:peace:
 

offgridgrower

Well-Known Member
What's cool is we are actually watching history being made. The concept of what we are doing with the internet right now has never been done in all of history.

Think about it for a second...we are all working together...complete strangers helping each other out.

Why? ...for no other reason than love:peace:
sorry for the jack, but once you said it I had to respond!!

this is the basis for the venus project!! it's resourced based society at its finest, imo.

check it out, The Venus Project - The Redesign of a culture

back to the grow discussion...
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Thats pretty sweet offgrid, thats what this world needs a redesign of society. Things are getting out of control on this planet. Unfortunately we're at the point when it will take drastic change to change anything.
 

DIRTHAWKER

Well-Known Member
'Houston' ""we may have a problem"" Im still about 1-2 weeks away from getting my flower room up and running, and the roots in my veg system are already into the reservoir water.
Im thinking i need to do some emergency work.

Maybe get a new lid and for the reservoir section and drill a bunch of tiny holes so the roots stay up and out of the water? that or a kitchen strainer and set all the roots in it.

help?
 

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
'Houston' ""we may have a problem"" Im still about 1-2 weeks away from getting my flower room up and running, and the roots in my veg system are already into the reservoir water.
That's why I run a dual container system on my veg unit. Even then the roots will grow all the way down to the pump in three weeks.
 

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newweedman

Well-Known Member
Im thinking i need to do some emergency work.

Maybe get a new lid and for the reservoir section and drill a bunch of tiny holes so the roots stay up and out of the water? that or a kitchen strainer and set all the roots in it.

help?
If you put an air stone bubbler in the res. you will be ok. Also add some Hyd. Peroxide. to keep the roots healthy and white.
 

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
yeah i have been noting that my ph has been rising, seems to take a few days to rise past the ok point. at first i thought it was the tap water so i switched to distilled water, but that rose too, so now I dont know what is causing it, so i just keep a daily check on it now.

note to using distilled water, it takes VERY little of the gh up and down to change the ph, be warned!!
I'm feeling like I should go and check the PH on my cloner. As of now I just set it to 5.8 when I fill it and I never check it again.

Yea the leaves will twist and turn and sometimes turn a little yellow but eventually they all pop roots.

Remember this basic concept about the cloner. The idea is to withhold nutrients so the plants are forced to grow roots to get some.

The whole idea of watching the PH is to avoid PH lockout. At certain PH levels nutrients become unavailable to the plant.

Same thing happens outdoors when it gets cold. The nutrients become unavailable to the plants. That's why we see the natural colors come through that are normally hidden by chlorophyll.

We don't use any nutes in the cloner so in theory PH shouldn't matter much. It seams to me that there are no nutes to lock out, right?

And the truth is, clones are a non issue in my system. I have clones coming out my ass and I never check the PH in my cloner.

Don't sweat the small stuff. As long as you don't have pests you are golden. Trust me on this, before long all you guys will be writing asking what to do because you can't take a shit with all the clones coming out your ass.:weed:
 

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
If you put an air stone bubbler in the res. you will be ok. Also add some Hyd. Peroxide. to keep the roots healthy and white.
You don't need any stones! Just buy another container and build my veg unit. You don't want the roots setting in water. That's the whole concept behind aeroponics. The roots need the air time.

The dual container system also keeps the roots separated. This is important because you will need to be able to move the plants into the flower system later.

Your roots will not be white because we use Liquid Karma. They will start out white in the cloner and by the time you harvest they will be dyed almost completely black.

Rubbermaid makes a short Ruffneck container. I've seen the pics online but I can't find anyplace that sells them locally. We really don't need 18gal. containers for a small veg unit.

Two of these 14gal would be perfect:
http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/product/product.jhtml?prodId=HPProd2935118

Too bad I can't find the little buggers!
 

offgridgrower

Well-Known Member
.
Don't sweat the small stuff. As long as you don't have pests you are golden. Trust me on this, before long all you guys will be writing asking what to do because you can't take a shit with all the clones coming out your ass.:weed:
I have a plan for all those extra clones!! tray sale! lol

it sounds all reasonable, and nothing is dead yet and i feel like i will get better conditions once the rooms are built. but I would like to know for reference if your ph changes as well, this second batch of water i used techflora, route 666 as i had used all of the clonex soultion and didnt buy extra. a friend had the bottle of route 666 and i threw that in , and i still dip the cuttings in clonex gel, do you dip your cuttings?
 

DIRTHAWKER

Well-Known Member
Stinkbud, I do have a dual container for my veg system (exactly like yours) Today is exactly 2 weeks since i put my (already rooted clones) in. The roots have grown so long that they are all now about 4 inches in the water. Will this be a problem? since i still need a couple weeks to get flower lights etc...

Also, you say that you could use the veg system all the way through flower if one wanted too. How is this possible? if roots are gonna be in the water... I thought you didnt want the roots to sit in water? (root rot.etc..)

2 more questions, on the flower unit, the plants roots closest to the reservoir will undoubtidly be coming out the fence post and into the reservoir,,, not a problem?

My plants are going on there 5th node. When i top these plants, and take clones, how long should they be left in the veg system afterwards before tranferring to the flower unit?

Hey man i really appreciate the time you take to help people along...karma is gonna get you..


This is absolutely amazing how fast these plants and roots grow with this system... I am A happy MAN.
THANKS.
 

DragonPhoenix

Well-Known Member
You may have some funk growing in your water. Change the water and add some Hygrozyme. It will take care of any funky stuff you may have growing in the water.

You have a timer right? Without a timer the water temps will get too hot.
I changed the res this morning and added Hydroguard per the Botanicare schedule. The pH had risen to over 7 again even though I had just lowered it and there was all sorts of brown junk growing in the water.

I still can't get over how quickly everything is growing - now I just have to keep it all alive.
 

DragonPhoenix

Well-Known Member
I'm feeling like I should go and check the PH on my cloner. As of now I just set it to 5.8 when I fill it and I never check it again.

Yea the leaves will twist and turn and sometimes turn a little yellow but eventually they all pop roots.

Remember this basic concept about the cloner. The idea is to withhold nutrients so the plants are forced to grow roots to get some.

The whole idea of watching the PH is to avoid PH lockout. At certain PH levels nutrients become unavailable to the plant.

Same thing happens outdoors when it gets cold. The nutrients become unavailable to the plants. That's why we see the natural colors come through that are normally hidden by chlorophyll.

We don't use any nutes in the cloner so in theory PH shouldn't matter much. It seams to me that there are no nutes to lock out, right?

And the truth is, clones are a non issue in my system. I have clones coming out my ass and I never check the PH in my cloner.

Don't sweat the small stuff. As long as you don't have pests you are golden. Trust me on this, before long all you guys will be writing asking what to do because you can't take a shit with all the clones coming out your ass.:weed:
Hey Stinkbud -
I've been reading a ton for the past couple months and one thing that I did notice that might effect the pH and lockout regarding seedlings and clones is this. I'm using reverse osmosis water. As I'm sure you are aware this removes nearly all chemicals from the water. Tapwater has calcium, chlorine, flouride, magnesium, etc in it which the plants use. So tapwater itself has some nutes in it. These are removed when you use Reverse Osmosis water. For this reason the Botanicare schedule recommends adding Cal-Mag+ from the very beginning if using reverse osmosis water. Just thinking here that some of nutes could get locked out either way - with tapwater or reverse osmosis water if the pH drifts too much.

Just food for thought,
DP
 

DragonPhoenix

Well-Known Member
Stinkbud, I do have a dual container for my veg system (exactly like yours) Today is exactly 2 weeks since i put my (already rooted clones) in. The roots have grown so long that they are all now about 4 inches in the water. Will this be a problem? since i still need a couple weeks to get flower lights etc...

Also, you say that you could use the veg system all the way through flower if one wanted too. How is this possible? if roots are gonna be in the water... I thought you didnt want the roots to sit in water? (root rot.etc..)
Hey dirt - if you look at the plans for the veg unit it is two seperate rubbermaids on top of each other. The bottom rubbermaid is the resevoir. The top unit is like your cloner with the exception of a small hole in the bottom to run the PVC up from the pump. Therefore the roots will not get down into the resevoir. You see?
 

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
Stinkbud, I do have a dual container for my veg system (exactly like yours) Today is exactly 2 weeks since i put my (already rooted clones) in. The roots have grown so long that they are all now about 4 inches in the water. Will this be a problem? since i still need a couple weeks to get flower lights etc...
Just cut them off. It won't hurt them.

Also, you say that you could use the veg system all the way through flower if one wanted too. How is this possible? if roots are gonna be in the water... I thought you didnt want the roots to sit in water? (root rot.etc..)
I bought one of those bathroom sink screens and cut a hole just big enough for the 1/2" pipe to fit through.

2 more questions, on the flower unit, the plants roots closest to the reservoir will undoubtidly be coming out the fence post and into the reservoir,,, not a problem?
Actually all the plants roots will get long enough to come out the pipe. You just cut them. I know it sound harsh but all the long roots are just tap roots not nutrient roots.

Think of it like this, the plants send down a tap root because the water table is deep. But the all the nutrients are in the top layer of the soil. So the plants have developed a two part roots system one for water and one for nutrients.

You can even see the different root structures. The tap roots look like long carrots and the top (nutrient) roots look like fine hair.

My plants are going on there 5th node. When i top these plants, how long should they be left in the veg system afterwards before tranferring to the flower unit?
My transfers are based 100% on harvest. As soon as I harvest I bring my veg plants in no matter what size they are. Some I had to top during veg to keep them under 12" (State Law). You could let them go bigger if you wanted.

Once you get the perpetual harvest running your timing will be set by harvest. It's like a factory. Cuttings go to the cloner, clones go to veg, veg goes to flower and flower goes into my bong. Henry Ford would be proud of us.:hump:

At this point you can flower whenever you want. I would wait until you build your Aero/NFT system though. You will be glad you did!

This is absolutely amazing how fast these plants and roots grow with this system... I am A happy MAN.
THANKS.
Wait to you see the first 2 weeks in flower. The plants shoot up like nothing you can imagine. They triple in height!
 

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
Hey Stinkbud -
I've been reading a ton for the past couple months and one thing that I did notice that might effect the pH and lockout regarding seedlings and clones is this. I'm using reverse osmosis water. As I'm sure you are aware this removes nearly all chemicals from the water. Tapwater has calcium, chlorine, flouride, magnesium, etc in it which the plants use. So tapwater itself has some nutes in it. These are removed when you use Reverse Osmosis water. For this reason the Botanicare schedule recommends adding Cal-Mag+ from the very beginning if using reverse osmosis water. Just thinking here that some of nutes could get locked out either way - with tapwater or reverse osmosis water if the pH drifts too much.

Just food for thought,
DP
My tap water is 175-200 PPM out of the faucet. There are some of you that will have to use RO water because your tap water is nasty. I'm still not sure that it matters though.

A few times my clones got so big they started begging for nutes. But not all the cuttings had rooted yet. So one time I broke down and gave them some Liquid Karma. They loved it.

The clones that hadn't rooted just sat there fat and happy with a really shitty attitude. Like couch potatoes. It's like you have to say "Put the fucking bon bons down, get off your ass and grow some roots bitch".

That's kind of the idea of straight water. It forces the plant to get off it's ass and go to the freezer and get it's own fucking ice cream. Does that make sense?
 

DragonPhoenix

Well-Known Member
Yeah it makes sense.

I was also thinking about added H2O2 to the resevoir but I've heard this is not a good idea if using organic nutes. I'll check the Botanicare website and see if they mention anything about it.
 

DragonPhoenix

Well-Known Member
Well it looks like I just answered my own question. This directly from their website.

Q: Can I use hydrogen peroxide with Hydroguard?
A: No, hydrogen peroxide will kill off the beneficial microorganisms present in Hydroguard.



Q: Can I use hydrogen peroxide with Pure Blend Pro or Liquid Karma?
A: No, hydrogen peroxide will kill off the beneficial microorganisms present in Pure Blend Pro and Liquid Karma.


There you have it. Do NOT use Hydrogen Peroxide with Botanicare Organic Nutes.
 

StinkBud

Well-Known Member
I changed the res this morning and added Hydroguard per the Botanicare schedule. The pH had risen to over 7 again even though I had just lowered it and there was all sorts of brown junk growing in the water.

I still can't get over how quickly everything is growing - now I just have to keep it all alive.
The brown junk is what's causing your PH to rise. Hygrozyme will take care of that.
http://www.hygrozyme.info/general/what-is-hygrozyme.html
http://www.hygrozyme.info/root-development/root-rot-and-other-horrible-nasties.html

I'm wondering why you have it to begin with. My first guess would be that your water temps are too high. Warm water breeds funk. Your water should feel cold. 68 degrees is perfect, anything over 72 and you're screwed.

You did say you have a cycle timer right?
 
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