SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

[Bignutes]

Your koolaid looks like fun. But I have some questions.I

I'm probably going to build both inntainer style and the smart pot on a res versions of a sips soon. Due to factors beyond my control, I'm not ready to move into the source yet, but my clones are ready to come out of the cloner.
It'll be about 3 weeks or so before I can get my new space up and running with sips, what should I put the clones in in the mean time?

Solo cup? 2 or 3 gallon container? They'll be moving into whatever sizes I find for the inntainer or 10 gallon smart pots in 3 to 4 weeks, I plan to flower as soon as the roots hit the res.

I'll be using FFOF and plain water the first few times to see how things work. If I can find it, the happy frog dry organic nuts in a trench, then covered with panda plastic or something.

I'm going from 9 litre to 10 gal in a week. 9 litre lasts about 3 weeks before root bound, at least in my grow.

 

[Bignutes]

i'm not a sage but my 2c is cool looking parts, however it's a little hard to see in the pics how deep your wick will be. are you seating the fabric pot inside the tub and cutting it and sewing it to the wick? you might be able to put a screen on top and forget about the fabric pot. can't tell if your reservoir is deep enough to allow for an air space + water. you might want to try one first, before you drill holes and stuff and discover you want to make changes. i like the elbow water level indicator diy discussed earlier.

Wick spots are a 2 1/4" inch deep by 3" diameter at the middle of the pot elevator. There are also six rectangular wicks that may or may not be used they are 1"x2" by the same 2 1/4" deep. Yes seating the fabric pot inside tub but no sewing or blowing a hole in fabric. Going to put pumice in the wicks so its just above the level of the wells in the pot elevator and set the fabric pot onto the pumice/pot elevator. Figured 1 1/4" of water, 1" of air.

The screen with no fabric is a good idea, I can then grow some Amazon's in there it would take soil volume from 10 gal to about 17 gal.

I like the sight glass concept, we do that on hydraulic tanks at work. I agree not keen on blowing a hole in the tubs yet until the bugs are worked out.

 

[raggyb]

Wick spots are a 2 1/4" inch deep by 3" diameter at the middle of the pot elevator. There are also six rectangular wicks that may or may not be used they are 1"x2" by the same 2 1/4" deep. Yes seating the fabric pot inside tub but no sewing or blowing a hole in fabric. Going to put pumice in the wicks so its just above the level of the wells in the pot elevator and set the fabric pot onto the pumice/pot elevator. Figured 1 1/4" of water, 1" of air.

The screen with no fabric is a good idea, I can then grow some Amazon's in there it would take soil volume from 10 gal to about 17 gal.

I like the sight glass concept, we do that on hydraulic tanks at work. I agree not keen on blowing a hole in the tubs yet until the bugs are worked out.

are you going to manually water or set something up automatic. my thought is 1.25" water will dry out fast. and the sip guys say holes in the bottom and access for the roots to grow thru the wick is necessary. not sure they will penetrate the fabric even if wet but maybe.

 

[Bignutes]

are you going to manually water or set something up automatic. my thought is 1.25" water will dry out fast. and the sip guys say holes in the bottom and access for the roots to grow thru the wick is necessary. not sure they will penetrate the fabric even if wet but maybe.

Ok I will cut some holes in the fabric pot ones, I'll run a few fabrics and some with no fabric just soil on top of mesh on top of pot lifters. The water use is unknown to me this method but from what I understand is they drink more in a sip. The volume of water in the bottom 1.25" is 4.4 litres or 1.15 gal. Is that going to be too little to be effective as a sip? How many days would that go you think?

 

[raggyb]

Ok I will cut some holes in the fabric pot ones, I'll run a few fabrics and some with no fabric just soil on top of mesh on top of pot lifters. The water use is unknown to me this method but from what I understand is they drink more in a sip. The volume of water in the bottom 1.25" is 4.4 litres or 1.15 gal. Is that going to be too little to be effective as a sip? How many days would that go you think?

I think you said 14" diameter or 10gal so that's a big plant. Mine in 5 gal pots were drinking 1 gal a day at their peak though I let them get too big. If your wicks go to the bottom then maybe they'll last 24 hr. Depends on your light power and how big you let them get too. I suppose you could let them dry out a bit before you refill but I never tried that. I felt the idea was to not have to water a lot and letting them dry out might kill the water roots. I made deep wicks for this reason and I don't know if they work better or worse but they did keep drinking up to 3 gal down I'd say. I hope the screen thing will work, just an idea and I think it will. Suggest a poly screen though so it doesn't rust. Maybe eventually you work out an automatic refilling system. The good thing about yours is you save head room. I loose a lot with my contraptions. Less kneeling though.

 

[Bignutes]

I think you said 14" diameter or 10gal so that's a big plant. Mine in 5 gal pots were drinking 1 gal a day at their peak though I let them get too big. If your wicks go to the bottom then maybe they'll last 24 hr. Depends on your light power and how big you let them get too. I suppose you could let them dry out a bit before you refill but I never tried that. I felt the idea was to not have to water a lot and letting them dry out might kill the water roots. I made deep wicks for this reason and I don't know if they work better or worse but they did keep drinking up to 3 gal down I'd say. I hope the screen thing will work, just an idea and I think it will. Suggest a poly screen though so it doesn't rust. Maybe eventually you work out an automatic refilling system. The good thing about yours is you save head room. I loose a lot with my contraptions. Less kneeling though.

The difference between water consumption by hand versus what the SIPS are is large! For a screen I have aluminum window screen, not a fan of it being aluminum, will probably do poly screen.

I am going to keep the plant to a 2x2 in 10 gal for now without depleting soil nutes too much. I am riding the line right now in 7 gal and the plants just finish before giving up from exhausting the soil.

I did an auto watering system on my second last grow, it wasn't very good because it didnt evenly water the soil. I could resurrect that idea as I just need to refill a reservoir so I am thinking reviving that concept, its threaded pvc pipe attached to tubing dropped into each bucket on a drip system. Drip controlled by tightening the end cap on each pvc pipe. Then a larger reservoir elevated for gravity drain to each bucket. It would save some height. I like your method better, more forgiving, but I need to take that route slow, not into blowing holes into new items until I get one tested and proven. It looks like I am going to have a real mix of methods to speed up the learning curve.

 

[RevRico]

So I have read through this whole thread. And the probiotics thread, and a few people whose names I don't remember but linked grows through this thread in sips. I've seen the ridiculous growth rates, the debates and openendedness of wick size, the customizations, the cons of using hydro nutes, the space considerations.

Before I actually start buying things, how about we go over my potential setup, so I can make changes or weigh options with my down time?

I'm going back and forth between running 2 48x24x60" tents or 2 48x48x78-80" tents. It's just cheaper and easier to buy tents from Amazon than build rooms, even with the material I have on hand. Am I wrong in thinning I could fit 2 inntainers inside a 48x48, but only one in a 48x24?

I'll be running 600 watt HPS, and possibly a "1000 watt" (320 at the wall) blurple, 4 inch exhaust fan to charcoal filter.

I keep going around about a nursery too. In all honesty, I'd like to stop my perpetual grow. Switching to SIPS sounds like it will make it easier work wise, but I'd really like to get down to just 2-3 harvest per year. I've seen it mentioned a few times about having some trouble transplanting into the sips, and I did ask about it already, but I have a tendency to cut to many clones and can't bring myself to kill them, so I wind up with plants vegging 4-6 months, sometimes longer. What's a better way to go about maintaining a supply of plants ready to flip? Or maybe a better question is what are veg times like, and could a plant veg 2-3 months in this setup and still have the nutes to flower in the soil?

I'm not ready to jump into the living soil thing. I might start it later this year once I figure out the veggie garden too, but there's just too much going on to be able to spend the time learning it now.

I'm not gonna lie, my main concern, initially, is weight. I know how to scrog, and I've seen a lot of your grows looking impressive, but haven't seen many numbers after the harvest. In my current drain to waste sunshine#4 and jacks citrus, I'm averaging a little over an ounce per gallon of pot size, whether I run 3s or 10s. Can I expect similar our better yields coming over to this side of the fence? That would help me determine tent size and plant count a bit better.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm bored and over thinking things waiting on this house to close so I can setup the new grow.

 

[Bignutes]

If you've got an over cloning complex and end up with too many like I do, get your clones rooted and drop the light intensity so they are just above a dormancy state. They can exist like this perpetually until your ready to put them on the dance floor. They wouldn't take a whole lot of nutrients out of the soil either.

 

[raggyb]

I did an auto watering system on my second last grow, it wasn't very good because it didnt evenly water the soil. I could resurrect that idea as I just need to refill a reservoir so I am thinking reviving that concept, its threaded pvc pipe attached to tubing dropped into each bucket on a drip system. Drip controlled by tightening the end cap on each pvc pipe. Then a larger reservoir elevated for gravity drain to each bucket. It would save some height. I like your method better, more forgiving, but I need to take that route slow, not into blowing holes into new items until I get one tested and proven. It looks like I am going to have a real mix of methods to speed up the learning curve.

I'm using gravity fed too and there are several challenges. I have different sized homemade SIPs and getting them all so that the water level is the same is a challenge. A float valve keeps one height. But it's tough to move them, disconnects and other weird stuff happens.

 

[Bignutes]

Has anyone used wick cord to build a sip? Nothing comes up in search. Take a wick cord put it in a reservoir that sits beside your plants and run the other end of the wick into the pot. It would alleviate having tub in tub type of build, stacking components, fluid level markers and construction of sip. If one cord isn't enough then multiply.

Second concept is to build a 18"x44" flood table with poly liner for two 10 gal pots. Flood table will be 4 inches deep to hold 13.7 gal so at 1 gal per day use it would roughly be 7 days of water supply for both plants.

 

[Bignutes]

Found an answer on the wick cord, only good for small plants, but assuming that's using one wick.

 

[Polyuro]

Found an answer on the wick cord, only good for small plants, but assuming that's using one wick.

From what I’ve gathered you want your compacted medium in direct contact with the water reservoir to make sure the soil gets saturated enough. A artificial wick or even landscape fabric in between the rez and medium can hinder natural soil wicking.

 

[Bignutes]

From what I’ve gathered you want your compacted medium in direct contact with the water reservoir to make sure the soil gets saturated enough. A artificial wick or even landscape fabric in between the rez and medium can hinder natural soil wicking.

Ok that is what it looks like I must do. So no to pumice? Or go with peat or my soil mix?

 

[Polyuro]

whatever holds together the best for the wick part of the medium . Too much pumic, perlite etc will make the medium ‘crumbly’ and wash away your soil wick in the Rez

 

[Bignutes]

Ok so I have everything ready to go, my only hold up is using a pump and air stones. I have isolated pots and dont want to run a pump and air stones to each one. What are my options? I'm no hydro guy lol.

 

[GreenDave123]

From what I have read
You water like a normal plant from top for about 7-10 days until the plant grows it’s roots down to the moist soil
The idea is to go from moist bottom up to dry topsoil to rid off fungus Nats
The plant will grow roots where it likes the moisture

 

[Bignutes]

It's supposed to grow faster if the water is aerated

 

[Polyuro]

It's supposed to grow faster if the water is aerated

If u add em-1 to your water in the Rez you do not need an air stone. Em-1 keeps your water from going anaerobic.

 

[Bignutes]

I was under the impression that oxygenating the water would increase biomass but after seeing an experiment of dwc vs kratky I am convinced that it doesn't need aeration. Em1 will be added, thank you for that @Polyuro

Super smart guy doing this experiment, he understands how to perform an experiment. The second link at about 40% onwards thru gives you the results.

 

[Bignutes]

I had some 5 l sq pots that fit perfect under the pot elevators. Now I'll have 7.5 inches of clearance under the elevators/fabric pot. With 6.5 inches of water it will give me 7 gal of reservoir. Its coming together!