More THC testing – UVA vs UVB vs near-UV

[Prawn Connery]

I am interested in the ones around the sides....?? - STELTHY

Buddies, side-light and under-canopy LEDs

I got these off LED Teknik a while ago. They are strings of 20x 0.72W fully enclosed LEDs with diffusers. Teknik calls them "Buddies" and I've got 4000K and phosphor-coated red. Each string is about 15W, so I have a 60W Osram driver driving four strings of Buddies which are simply stuck to the...

www.rollitup.org

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

I agree, but in nature, few plants have EVERYTHING 100% perfect... no one comes around to make sure that the soil has just the right nutrients or that some tree doesn't grow where it steals a few hours of daylight. What you are aiming for is noble, but hopefully, the actual cost of what you say isn't doubling the cost per foot light up a place..

My 550 uses 5 x 288 LM561C on an HLG480 and sells for well under$500, this leaves shitload of money for people to get their own dedicated standalone supplementary strips and stuff....

Paying double for the HLG version does not net you double yields. In fact, I still insist because my unit spreads the diodes more evenly over the canopy and uses 25% more diodes, while costing half, it is a better light hands down.

As we design and assemble our boards here in Australia it's hard to compete with the knock-offs out of China so we don't. We simply try to offer a better product with better customer service. You get what you pay for with us, as there is no bullshit about "top bins" and the workmanship is second-to-none (and according to our distributors and customers, better quality than pretty much every other board out there, even those made by bigger-name companies). We use quality LEDs, 2mm PCBs, 2oz copper and our assembly line is one of the most advanced in Australia. I don't think our High Light prices are too bad, but I can tell you we do sell possibly the cheapest heatsinks you will find anywhere to help offset the cost of the boards. You only have to compare what's on offer to see.

With cheap heatsinks we can at least offer a cost-effective solution that is easy to assemble and mount. Strips are very labour-intensive to mount and wire (we know, because that's how we started, by building strips) and by the time you've sourced, cut and drilled the aluminium extrusion, built the frames and wired all the strips together, the heatsink-mounted LED boards are so much easier to manage.

But we also recognise that different growers have different requirements and so we know there is room for everyone. The Chinese knock-offs will always have a market, and user experience will vary – some will have good experiences dealing with the knock-off companies, some will have bad experiences (just try getting a warranty claim out of them!) – but we will keep making the best boards we can for those who appreciate quality and results. And as Prawn pointed out, locally our prices are very competitive so we would argue that at least in Australia we have one of the better-price products available. And in my opinion one of the best too. We understand we are expected to say these things (as Prawn has also pointed out) but a reflection of our products is in return customers, and we are starting to get a lot of those now that the first adapters have seen the results

 

[Airwalker16]

As we design and assemble our boards here in Australia it's hard to compete with the knock-offs out of China so we don't. We simply try to offer a better product with better customer service. You get what you pay for with us, as there is no bullshit about "top bins" and the workmanship is second-to-none (and according to our distributors and customers, better quality than pretty much every other board out there, even those made by bigger-name companies). We use quality LEDs, 2mm PCBs, 2oz copper and our assembly line is one of the most advanced in Australia. I don't think our High Light prices are too bad, but I can tell you we do sell possibly the cheapest heatsinks you will find anywhere to help offset the cost of the boards. You only have to compare what's on offer to see.

With cheap heatsinks we can at least offer a cost-effective solution that is easy to assemble and mount. Strips are very labour-intensive to mount and wire (we know, because that's how we started, by building strips) and by the time you've sourced, cut and drilled the aluminium extrusion, built the frames and wired all the strips together, the heatsink-mounted LED boards are so much easier to manage.

But we also recognise that different growers have different requirements and so we know there is room for everyone. The Chinese knock-offs will always have a market, and user experience will vary – some will have good experiences dealing with the knock-off companies, some will have bad experiences (just try getting a warranty claim out of them!) – but we will keep making the best boards we can for those who appreciate quality and results. And as Prawn pointed out, locally our prices are very competitive so we would argue that at least in Australia we have one of the better-price products available. And in my opinion one of the best too. We understand we are expected to say these things (as Prawn has also pointed out) but a reflection of our products is in return customers, and we are starting to get a lot of those now that the first adapters have seen the results

Do you ever plan on putting some real deal UV diodes like 285-310nm onto your boards? Like on a separate channel perhaps?

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

Do you ever plan on putting some real deal UV diodes like 285-310nm onto your boards? Like on a separate channel perhaps?

No. UVB diodes are expensive, have short lives (which would reduce the life of the entire LED board) and add unneeded complexity and cost (separate drivers timers etc). Fluorescent bulbs are still the most cost-effective way to get UVB into a grow room that we know of (maybe mercury vapour lamps), as the hardware is cheap and readily available, and so are the bulbs (you can buy them from any pet store). There's also debate as to how beneficial UVB is compared to near-UV – which is why we are running these tests. If growers want to add UVB to their grows, there are already other avenues for them to do so.

 

[Airwalker16]

No. UVB diodes are expensive, have short lives (which would reduce the life of the entire LED board) and add unneeded complexity and cost (separate drivers timers etc). Fluorescent bulbs are still the most cost-effective way to get UVB into a grow room that we know of (maybe mercury vapour lamps), as the hardware is cheap and readily available, and so are the bulbs (you can buy them from any pet store). There's also debate as to how beneficial UVB is compared to near-UV – which is why we are running these tests. If growers want to add UVB to their grows, there are already other avenues for them to do so.

You make it sound so easy. Using 4' flouros is not ideal when they need to be a separate height than your main LEDs. Bot to mention needing to be directly over the canopy creating a huge hinderence for your LEDs photons to get to the canopy.

 

[Airwalker16]

You make it sound so easy. Using 4' flouros is not ideal when they need to be a separate height than your main LEDs. Bot to mention needing to be directly over the canopy creating a huge hinderence for your LEDs photons to get to the canopy.

And from what I've seen, there's some cheap enough diodes out there. Might not be top quality, but why spend big bucks on something with a short life span anyways. If not ON your board, maybe their own board/strip as cutter is doing? Just a thought

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

If Cutter is already doing it, then I guess there's no need for us to do it.

How do you add UVB to your current grow? I'm always interested in seeing people's grows.

 

[Airwalker16]

If Cutter is already doing it, then I guess there's no need for us to do it.

How do you add UVB to your current grow? I'm always interested in seeing people's grows.

I don't

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

OK, so can I ask why you would want us to put UVB LEDs on our boards? I'm just curious. We're always trying to learn what people want and the reasons for it. It's OK if it was just random question. We all ask those

 

[Airwalker16]

OK, so can I ask why you would want us to put UVB LEDs on our boards? I'm just curious. We're always trying to learn what people want and the reasons for it. It's OK if it was just random question. We all ask those

Because I think it's the next logical advancement. I would love a strip that is like cutters being offered by more competitors.

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

Fair enough. I don't know if it's logical from our point of view (which is from a purely business perspective) but at least you have Cutter to satisfy your needs. I do note that Solacure recommend only using UVB for about an hour a day (12-hour cycle) for some of their products. This is a 2' tube, BTW, which would be easier to mount than a 4' tube: https://www.solacure.com/f20kitx2.html

 

[Bignutes]

Do you ever plan on putting some real deal UV diodes like 285-310nm onto your boards? Like on a separate channel perhaps?

If you look back at post #26 there is no appreciable uv below 340ish. At this point in the game it makes more sense to look at what's most important and relevant to what the plants have in nature, 350 to 430 since they have active receptors to accept these wavelengths. Most people to run the lower uv chips only run them for short durations, like an hour or two a day or risk burning their plants, this leads me to believe running at below 350 is unnecessary, unwarranted and possibly detrimental even for short periods. At an hour or two each day this may cause damage that cant be seen but the plant has to repair it thereby creating less resiliency in your grow.

Once the mainstream is caught up to 350 to 430 then that may be the time to get testing on anything below 350. Prove the concept of 350 to 430 before getting ahead of ourselves and overstepping with 285 and end up creating nonsense noise created in the community by claiming that uv is bullshit when in fact it's not. One step at a time. Don't mean to sound condescending if it comes across that way, just my experience when doing product development.

 

[Rocket Soul]

No. UVB diodes are expensive, have short lives (which would reduce the life of the entire LED board) and add unneeded complexity and cost (separate drivers timers etc). Fluorescent bulbs are still the most cost-effective way to get UVB into a grow room that we know of (maybe mercury vapour lamps), as the hardware is cheap and readily available, and so are the bulbs (you can buy them from any pet store). There's also debate as to how beneficial UVB is compared to near-UV – which is why we are running these tests. If growers want to add UVB to their grows, there are already other avenues for them to do so.

Uvb diodes need as low temps as possible for longevity. To me it makes much more sense to keep them them on a separate heatsink so it only needs to deal with its own heat instead of the heat of all diodes.

Flouros might work fine for some but if you want to run low hanging heights for your light for a grow which dont have reflective walls (ie open space) you need a lot of them on low output or just on for short time to make it work. Im not sure if im right but i believe turning it on and off may cause them to crap out prematurely. So i do believe theres a place for uvb diodes for some of us.

 

[Kassiopeija]

You make it sound so easy. Using 4' flouros is not ideal when they need to be a separate height than your main LEDs. Bot to mention needing to be directly over the canopy creating a huge hinderence for your LEDs photons to get to the canopy.

yes, and fluroescent bulbs are only worthwhile in terms of output or even a somewhat acceptable power-intake for what you get - when you have a decent reflektor close to these bulbs. And then it's even more a creator of shades. But without reflection - these e27 spiral bulbs hanging free down from the wire - I wonder if some of the UVB backward light will destroy make Cree Chips?

I've looked now for maybe a half a dozen time into what's on the market concerning UVB but, as of now, there's just too many disadvantages by using whatever form of fluroescent blacklight. And then, they are not cheap and consume quite some electricity. And most likely, you can't have it equally distributed over the plants because centered may be your light (mines are...). But if you stuff it to the side, in the opposite the plants wont be affected but the close ones roasted...

So an LED solution would come in handy. I've ordered some cheap most likely completely crappy 3w 365 385 and will simply try them out. Still not arrived after 2 months most likely due to the virus.....

have short lives (which would reduce the life of the entire LED board) and add unneeded complexity and cost (separate drivers timers etc).

tbh I don't think UVB should be thrown at plants like the rest of the light. Isn't it that short burst do suffice in order to do some cellular damage, and then further UVA may stimulate the increased repair processes. I'm pretty sure such a stimulating light does as well create food, vegetables or fruit, that is more healthy for human consumption. And if recall correctly, UVB in nature is also quite spikey...

So a board could automate UVB chips to run in a daily or hourly intervall - e.g. every 4 hours for 30mins... - that could have a great impact on their lifespan. But it would require quite some more material to build as well as place for these diodes.... it may just be too luxurious to be economically viable at all...

 

[Morbid Angel]

.02$ testamonial here:

I grew rock star clones for > a year. Same cuts, same mothers, same source.
I was using 1600w hps, 600w mh.

after about 6 months I added 4’ reptile uv floro.

hydroponic nutrients the same as always. Flood and drain. Automated system. Sterile res. No changes at all to anything environmental except the uv addition. I use a 300x digital scope to gage harvest.

** the uv was auto timed to come on 15m before the the other lights every day for 30 min and again 15m before lights out for 30min. This was a few years ago and no need to complain or criticize the light schedule it’s beside the point.
Since UV addition as stated above I consistently viewed the tricombs cloud up approximately 7 days earlier every harvest.
Mind you the flower wasn’t in the same stage of swell but the resin had matured about a week faster. This bumped my harvest by a week.

Rock star was already a diamond mine and I did not notice an increase in resin production but a decrease in flower cycle time.

/end .02$

 

[Prawn Connery]

.02$ testamonial here:

I grew rock star clones for > a year. Same cuts, same mothers, same source.
I was using 1600w hps, 600w mh.

after about 6 months I added 4’ reptile uv floro.

hydroponic nutrients the same as always. Flood and drain. Automated system. Sterile res. No changes at all to anything environmental except the uv addition. I use a 300x digital scope to gage harvest.

** the uv was auto timed to come on 15m before the the other lights every day for 30 min and again 15m before lights out for 30min. This was a few years ago and no need to complain or criticize the light schedule it’s beside the point.
Since UV addition as stated above I consistently viewed the tricombs cloud up approximately 7 days earlier every harvest.
Mind you the flower wasn’t in the same stage of swell but the resin had matured about a week faster. This bumped my harvest by a week.

Rock star was already a diamond mine and I did not notice an increase in resin production but a decrease in flower cycle time.

/end .02$

I've grown out a lot of Sensi Star over the years. Some good oldskool genetics there. Thanks for the input. Did you notice any effect on yields by harvesting earlier? And what did those who smoke it think?

 

[Morbid Angel]

I've grown out a lot of Sensi Star over the years. Some good oldskool genetics there. Thanks for the input. Did you notice any effect on yields by harvesting earlier? And what did those who smoke it think?

So tbh. My grows where all very predictable. I didn’t usually have a bunch of different strains at the same time and all user error variables where out. Not like the majority of these failed side by sides I have seen on the net. I’ve dabbled in side projects with seeds and different strains but my actual grow was always automated, one strain of clones from the bm network at a time, predictable results, sterile environment and res, etc. So when it comes to the UV addition this was an easy one for me to actually relate what I have witnessed and experienced within defined and controlled perimeters.

So for sure, did I notice an effect on yields by harvesting early. Very slight cured weight deficit. But that’s to be expected. I did opt to continue to harvest early because the thc was mature and th 7 day difference made the difference financially in a perpetual grow.

people who smoked enjoyed just as much. It was such a resin heavy strain though back when the rosin tech was just breaking out my shit or rather the rock star I was growing was the preferred squish among the people I was envolved with. RS is not a heavy yielder but the quality is top shelf.

for the record I noticed the difference at the first supplemented harvest but I didn’t really believe my eyes so it wasn’t until the second and third harvests that I was able to trust what I was seeing. Initially I had expected to maybe see a little heavier resin production by adding the uv but that never really happened that I can tell and I was surprised and did not expect it to mature the trics earlier.
I was able to then do another harvest with no uv and compare results. It was in fact speeding up the finish time of that particular cut.

I stopped growing after this for a few years because *reasons* and I can’t say whether this was true for other cuts or what effects the uv might have on different strains.
I have just gotten back into growing but it’s not going to be the same as before. I am extremely limited in what I can currently do. No more hydro. No more hps/mh. I’m building LED and going the hobby route. Everything’s legal in Canada now and the market is saturated. But when I get set up again I will definitely be supplementing UV.

Is it worth it? I guess you really need to see what it does yourself. You need to grow cuts repeatedly from the same mother in the same controlled environment for a period of time where your results are predictable and you know exactly how your plants behave. Then supplement and see what it does if anything.

this is what I’ve seen. Be nice to see someone actually side by side proper not from seed and not botch it. Is there a grow on this forum that has actually done such a thing and documented it on anything? Led vs HPS,Uv vs no uv, this vs that... not that I’ve seen.

 

[Morbid Angel]

Every side by side I’ve seen on a forum has been botched or fucked up and then they just keep going and expect their results to be taken as fact.
You can’t do test with seeds. You can’t finish tests when you fuck something up and pretend it’s all good.
Mind you I haven’t been paying attention for a few years. So maybe someone has pulled one off about something or other that can be taken seriously.
Seems like GLA is doing some good work here though which is why I thought I’d dump my experience here. Obviously can’t be taken as fact but I think it contains pertinent information.

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

Our tests were as close as we could get under the circumstances. None were failed grows, they all used the same clones in the same medium and mostly same nutes. The Or_Grow test was also about as close as you will get to a true side-by-side as he had four tents going, all with the same clones, nutrients and DWC, and his were all harvested at the same time. Unfortunately his grow was documented on another site, but it was very professional.

 

[Morbid Angel]

*quick note:
The time I spent using uv in the above example was only during flower (start of 12/12). I did not run Uv during veg.

I would also say that for me based only on my experience, if I was trying to grow massive weight as my goal with say big bud or something I probably wouldn’t use it if i found it was making my plants mature early. Because of potentially loosing some fattening time.

But I would use it if I was growing something like GG4 and quality / speed and harvest turn over was my goal.