Getting rid of chloramine

[TreeFarmerCharlie]

I'm not saying its bad. I'm saying when searching for science based briefs, consideration should given that the studies are generally done on outdoor living soil and the effects the reactions between HOCl and NH4+ will have can be vastly different in containers.
I'm surprised I have to explain that but if I'm wrong, point me in right direction and I'll check it out.



I did read it but I don't put a lot of stock into GardenMyths. There have too many of their "Op Eds" debunked. Some right here on this forum.

All I can tell you is that I brew compost teas using my tap water, which has chloramine in it, and I have zero issues with microbial growth in those teas. The last batch I mixed up took less than 12 hour to be loaded with microbial life.

 

[2Hearts]

Tap water is full of life, that chlorine does very little and soil is a dense web of billions and billions it aint going to do any harm what so ever.

LOL

 

[spek9]

I have a 20 gallon drum i keep my water in with a fish take bubbler in it. After a day the chlorine smell is gone. That's the easiest way i found.

Many locales now use Chloramine as opposed to or in combination with Chlorine. Chloramine does not evaporate like Chlorine does, so it's prudent to find out what your municipality uses to treat its water if you're concerned enough to want to remove it.

I live on a lake and I Chlorinate my own water. In late spring/early summer, I go up to 7ppm due to contaminants from the winter runoff. Otherwise I try to maintain 4-5ppm. I do both free and total Chlorine tests weekly, and adjust the injector pump of the Cl/H2O mixture accordingly if needed.

I use this Chlorinated water in both my indoor and outdoor plants and have never had issues.

 

[Tangerine_]

All I can tell you is that I brew compost teas using my tap water, which has chloramine in it, and I have zero issues with microbial growth in those teas. The last batch I mixed up took less than 12 hour to be loaded with microbial life.

Tap water is full of life, that chlorine does very little and soil is a dense web of billions and billions it aint going to do any harm what so ever.

Can either of you show me where in my OP I made any claims other than "to give consideration"?

So much for useful dialogue. *shrugs*

 

[TreeFarmerCharlie]

Can either of you show me where in my OP I made any claims other than "to give consideration"?

So much for useful dialogue. *shrugs*

Are you saying you want us to provide peer reviewed studies to back up what we are saying? If so, then where are yours? If chlorine or chloramine is so detrimental to plants, at the dosages normally seen in tap water, then why would so many people who use tap water not be having the issues you are claiming to be caused by it? For the record, I grew exclusively with RO water for over a year. I switched to tap, a year ago when I got tired of all the waste, and I've seen zero difference in how my plants grow.

Edited to add: Oh, I see what you are saying now...you are bowing out of the conversation and saying you only were mentioning what you said to "give consideration"? What's the point in discussing something when you can't back up the claims you are making?

 

[Tangerine_]

@bk78 you got something add?
Should I give you a minute to google?

Are you saying you want us to provide peer reviewed studies to back up what we are saying? If so, then where are yours? If chlorine or chloramine is so detrimental to plants, at the dosages normally seen in tap water, then why would so many people who use tap water not be having the issues you are claiming to be caused by it? For the record, I grew exclusively with RO water for over a year. I switched to tap, a year ago when I got tired of all the waste, and I've seen zero difference in how my plants grow.

If you're going to make a claim, yes, even one ref. for further reading would be nice. There's a reason broscience floods these type of forums.

I use straight tap in living soil too, but that's not the point. Soil food webs in raised beds or containers do not have the same ability to repopulate and balance out as an outdoor soil does. At least not in the time frame needed for the type of plants we grow. Would you agree with that?

Edited to add - first link saved in my garden notes.

Induction of Root Browning by Chloramine in Lactuca sativa L. Grown in Hydroponics

Access full-text academic articles: J-STAGE is an online platform for Japanese academic journals.

www.jstage.jst.go.jp

Krone, W. J. and F. F. Weinard. 1931. Experiments with solutions of chlorine and sodium chloride on pot plants. Proc. Amer. Soc. Hort. Sci. 27: 444- 448.

I have a few others but I'll have to check to make sure they're still active.

 

[TreeFarmerCharlie]

If you're going to make a claim, yes, even one ref. for further reading would be nice. There's a reason broscience floods these type of forums.

I did provide a link earlier in the thread, and that provides links to the research that was done.

I use straight tap in living soil too, but that's not the point. Soil food webs in raised beds or containers do not have the same ability to repopulate and balance out as an outdoor soil does. At least not in the time frame needed for the type of plants we grow. Would you agree with that?

I don't agree with that, unless you are talking about watering your potted plants with water that has 10x - 20x the typically permitted levels of chlorine/chloramine in tap water.

 

[2Hearts]

The considerations was the point and most give none and do fine indoors and out.

Thats what were saying as a site because of discussion and trying it.

Chlorine does very little, prevents a few bad guys in your pipes thats all. Fish are ultrasensitive though, these hobby people worry about chlorine but we do not.

Can either of you show me where in my OP I made any claims other than "to give consideration"?

So much for useful dialogue. *shrugs*

 

[TreeFarmerCharlie]

@bk78 Edited to add - first link saved in my garden notes.

Induction of Root Browning by Chloramine in Lactuca sativa L. Grown in Hydroponics

Access full-text academic articles: J-STAGE is an online platform for Japanese academic journals.

www.jstage.jst.go.jp

Krone, W. J. and F. F. Weinard. 1931. Experiments with solutions of chlorine and sodium chloride on pot plants. Proc. Amer. Soc. Hort. Sci. 27: 444- 448.

I have a few others but I'll have to check to make sure they're still active.

That is in hydroponics, which is completely different than what we are talking about. It's still not a huge issue in hydro at low doses, based on what I've read, but soil itself takes a part in breaking down chloramine.

 

[natureboygrower]

All I can tell you is that I brew compost teas using my tap water, which has chloramine in it, and I have zero issues with microbial growth in those teas. The last batch I mixed up took less than 12 hour to be loaded with microbial life.

Do you use a microscope to check for microbial life?

 

[TreeFarmerCharlie]

Do you use a microscope to check for microbial life?

I did when I brewed my first batch, just to see how much life there was in there, but I don't do it with every batch. You honestly don't even need to use one to know if the tea is populating, though, because it will be very apparent by the bacterial slime that grows if you let it go too long.

 

[natureboygrower]

I did when I brewed my first batch, just to see how much life there was in there, but I don't do it with every batch. You honestly don't even need to use one to know if the tea is populating, though, because it will be very apparent by the bacterial slime that grows if you let it go too long.

I just went with the standard 36-42hr timeframe. I dont fuck with teas anymore, the cleanup is a pia, and topdressing dry ferts and fresh compost and ewc is easy. Just curious on how you were checking for life.

 

[xtsho]

A couple points to remember.

Concentration levels in tap can vary widely. Same with well water.

Most of these studies are done on living soil in outdoor crops with a much wider buffering capability. Those studies don't really apply to indoor growers using small containers.


RO units do create a lot of waste water so if you're not comfortable with that, a Boogie Blue filter is a great alternative.

In the United States at least the levels are capped a 4 - 6 ppm. Those levels are still low enough that even in containers of soil it's not enough to kill off all the microbes. As the water passes through the soil the chloramine reacts with organic material. The chloramine is neutralized as it passes through the soil. It does kill some microbes but enough remain to repopulate in a day or so. They're pretty rapid breeders.

I water outdoor planters all summer long with tap water. And I even feed with synthetic fertilizer. The planters are full of healthy worms and even though I have never tested I'm sure a healthy microbial population. Well at least the flowers think so.

 

[Tangerine_]

Do you use a microscope to check for microbial life?

Not just scope but a DO meter is also required or we're just shooting in the dark. Some of the seasoned organic guys here have provided a ton of info on this. I cant recall the user, but he had posted shots of his slides. Foam =/= prolific bacterial life as we had once believed.

That is in hydroponics, which is completely different than what we are talking about. It's still not a huge issue in hydro at low doses, based on what I've read, but soil itself takes a part in breaking down chloramine.

Bacteria can actually create chlorine but that's another rabbit hole.

My only point is chloramines do kill off millions of spores and there are disadvantages not being considered for container gardening, which include problems with controlling the extra ammonia and/or the inability to avoid nitrification. This all plays a massive roll in pH efficacy which is unaffected in outdoor crops or possibly for gardens using well chelated elements.

Once again, if I'm incorrect, point me in the right direction and I'll check out.

In the United States at least the levels are capped a 4 - 6 ppm. Those levels are still low enough that even in containers of soil it's not enough to kill off all the microbes. As the water passes through the soil the chloramine reacts with organic material. The chloramine is neutralized as it passes through the soil. It does kill some microbes but enough remain to repopulate in a day or so. They're pretty rapid breeders.

I water outdoor planters all summer long with tap water. And I even feed with synthetic fertilizer. The planters are full of healthy worms and even though I have never tested I'm sure a healthy microbial population. Well at least the flowers think so.

Beautiful flowers xtsho

 

[spek9]

In the United States at least the levels are capped a 4 - 6 ppm. Those levels are still low enough that even in containers of soil it's not enough to kill off all the microbes. As the water passes through the soil the chloramine reacts with organic material. The chloramine is neutralized as it passes through the soil. It does kill some microbes but enough remain to repopulate in a day or so. They're pretty rapid breeders.

I water outdoor planters all summer long with tap water. And I even feed with synthetic fertilizer. The planters are full of healthy worms and even though I have never tested I'm sure a healthy microbial population. Well at least the flowers think so.

Aside from the whole Chlorine debacle, I just want to say that those are some beautiful specimens you've got there! I love flowers, both growing them and appreciating them.

 

[xtsho]

Aside from the whole Chlorine debacle, I just want to say that those are some beautiful specimens you've got there! I love flowers, both growing them and appreciating them.

Just thought I'd try and brighten up the day with something nice.

I have a really nice camera. I don't know how to use it but every now and then I get the settings right.

 

[Tangerine_]

Aside from the whole Chlorine debacle, I just want to say that those are some beautiful specimens you've got there! I love flowers, both growing them and appreciating them.

Just thought I'd try and brighten up the day with something nice.

Y'all know you're my growmies
No matter how nerdy the shop talk gets.

 

[spek9]

Just thought I'd try and brighten up the day with something nice.

Well, this grower appreciated it for certain.

 

[natureboygrower]

In the United States at least the levels are capped a 4 - 6 ppm. Those levels are still low enough that even in containers of soil it's not enough to kill off all the microbes. As the water passes through the soil the chloramine reacts with organic material. The chloramine is neutralized as it passes through the soil. It does kill some microbes but enough remain to repopulate in a day or so. They're pretty rapid breeders.

I water outdoor planters all summer long with tap water. And I even feed with synthetic fertilizer. The planters are full of healthy worms and even though I have never tested I'm sure a healthy microbial population. Well at least the flowers think so.

Maintenance doesnt get much easier going with zinnias. Great cutting flowers easy to deadhead that keep producing all summer long. Lots of height variations and colors. Very nice shots

Not just scope but a DO meter is also required or we're just shooting in the dark. Some of the seasoned organic guys here have provided a ton of info on this. I cant recall the user, but he had posted shots of his slides. Foam =/= prolific bacterial life as we had once believed.

I used to pfff at RastaRoy for claiming that not looking at your teas smart enough could start the next pandemic. Not so much now
He got away from that, stopped recommending it and went to dry topdressing.
I did too. Im not schooled enough to be able to discern the good from bad brewing up teas. Plus the cleanup is tedious

 

[TreeFarmerCharlie]

I just went with the standard 36-42hr timeframe. I dont fuck with teas anymore, the cleanup is a pia, and topdressing dry ferts and fresh compost and ewc is easy. Just curious on how you were checking for life.

I don't do a whole lot of teas, either, because of the fact that you can inadvertently grow harmful bacteria. Once I figured out how quickly the microbes grew, I cut my brweing time down, substantially, and use the process more as a way to add nutrients to plants that look hungry.