Is this plant ready to flush?

[Doug Dawson]

Hello,

I hope I have put this in the correct place, if not my apologies. I have never posted on one of these sites before but have read many threads. have just recently started to try growing and need some advise from some experienced folks. I am trying to figure out if I am ready to start flushing. This plant is my first plant and the first time I have ever grown anything from a seed. This was a free seed from Crop King seeds and is a Northern Lights Autoflower. I attached a couple pictures of the trichomes as of yesterday and wondering if I can start the final flush? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Observe & Report]

"final flush" is one of the many myths in Cannabis growing perpetuated by broscientists. It makes no sense at all and there is no good evidence that it does anything but stunt your plants growth. Just keep providing ideal conditions and keep them as healthy as possible until you chop.

 

[pulpoinspace]

add some pictures of the buds too.

the closeups are great but more useful if u can see the big picture as well.

 

[Doug Dawson]

Thanks for your responses, much appreciated. This is all quite new to me. Here are a couple pics of the plant.

 

[pulpoinspace]

looks good. personally id try to keep it going another week or two till those last white pistils recede but you're getting close.

 

[Doug Dawson]

looks good. personally id try to keep it going another week or two till those last white pistils recede but you're getting close.

Thanks very much, I will keep them going a while, I am in no hurry. As I say this is new to me and my first plant. I have a couple more going now but am limited to 4 plants here in Canada so it will be a bit of a process getting some actual practical experience. I started 2 White Widow and 1 Early Miss after this one. The Widows are a few weeks into budding and the Early Miss is still vegging. The one in the pics is in a 3 gallon fabric pot but feels root bound, I moved up to a 5 gallon by time I started Early Miss and she is getting bigger than this Northern Lights. I am using coco with 20% perlite and using General Hydroponics advanced series nutes and feeding at half what they suggest in the feeding schedule. I am also using RO water PH balanced to 5.8 for feeding. Looks like a got a bit of nute burn so will need to be looking at that going forward. I am really looking forward getting this first plant dried and cured, it's been a fun start to to a new hobby. Thank you again for your reply.

 

[pulpoinspace]

Thanks very much, I will keep them going a while, I am in no hurry. As I say this is new to me and my first plant. I have a couple more going now but am limited to 4 plants here in Canada so it will be a bit of a process getting some actual practical experience. I started 2 White Widow and 1 Early Miss after this one. The Widows are a few weeks into budding and the Early Miss is still vegging. The one in the pics is in a 3 gallon fabric pot but feels root bound, I moved up to a 5 gallon by time I started Early Miss and she is getting bigger than this Northern Lights. I am using coco with 20% perlite and using General Hydroponics advanced series nutes and feeding at half what they suggest in the feeding schedule. I am also using RO water PH balanced to 5.8 for feeding. Looks like a got a bit of nute burn so will need to be looking at that going forward. I am really looking forward getting this first plant dried and cured, it's been a fun start to to a new hobby. Thank you again for your reply.

no problem. looks really great for your first plant. you've already waited longer than most people wait to harvest their first plant so you should be proud and you will be rewarded for your patience. welcome to the hobby and RIU.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

Looking good. What @Observe & Report said is largely true, but there’s also a big fat holy war about it and there is some nuance to the discussion. Tread lightly with the word “flush” it can cause weird eruptions. Anyway, looks really good. Great job. Harvest any time in the next zero to ten days and you are probably good to go. Use your overall senses of the ripening of the plant as well as trichome checks in different places. Glad to have another new grower in the tribe, and you grew a very nice plant your first time out!

 

[Michael Huntherz]

Hey @Doug Dawson - I keep soft water Amazon cichlid fish and run RO for breedeing them, but I no longer use RO for my grow. You may have better results with tap water, honestly. RO is slippery, pH-wise (no ppm means no buffer so any changes to the solution will cause sweeping changes in the pH) and it will be easier to get stable solutions with tap water. Measure and study your local water supply, and depending on your nutes you may be able to run your solution anywhere between 5.5-8.0pH and have perfectly healthy plants. If your local water is below 150ppm and around 7.0 pH (and depending on your nutrient system) you can probably just skip the RO hassle. Don’t chase pH unless you absolutely have to, that’s a lesson I learned from the aquarium world, and it serves me with the grow.

Iron uptake can be a problem for some forms of iron at higher pH, learn everything that is in your nutrients in specific detail if you can.

5.8 is a little low as a target, consider using 6.0 or 6.2 as optimal in Coco. (pH is a logarithmic scale that curves away from 7.0) - I generally end up at 6.5 for initial solution, for every medium, but have seen my system swing from 4.4-8.0 during a healthy grow. (4.4 is like coca cola pH, don’t do that, lol)

Anyway, RO is sort of a trap due to its lack of buffer. I would almost consider it a commercial level optimization. And though I can, I do not use it.

Sorry if I mansplained pH too hard.

Cheers!

 

[Doug Dawson]

Hey @Doug Dawson - I keep soft water Amazon cichlid fish and run RO for breedeing them, but I no longer use RO for my grow. You may have better results with tap water, honestly. RO is slippery, pH-wise (no ppm means no buffer so any changes to the solution will cause sweeping changes in the pH) and it will be easier to get stable solutions with tap water. Measure and study your local water supply, and depending on your nutes you may be able to run your solution anywhere between 5.5-8.0pH and have perfectly healthy plants. If your local water is below 150ppm and around 7.0 pH (and depending on your nutrient system) you can probably just skip the RO hassle. Don’t chase pH unless you absolutely have to, that’s a lesson I learned from the aquarium world, and it serves me with the grow.

Iron uptake can be a problem for some forms of iron at higher pH, learn everything that is in your nutrients in specific detail if you can.

5.8 is a little low as a target, consider using 6.0 or 6.2 as optimal in Coco. (pH is a logarithmic scale that curves away from 7.0) - I generally end up at 6.5 for initial solution, for every medium, but have seen my system swing from 4.4-8.0 during a healthy grow. (4.4 is like coca cola pH, don’t do that, lol)

Anyway, RO is sort of a trap due to its lack of buffer. I would almost consider it a commercial level optimization. And though I can, I do not use it.

Sorry if I mansplained pH too hard.

Cheers!

Hello @Michael Huntherz, thanks for your reply. I have seen what you mean regarding the argument between the flush/don't flush folks. This has been one of my biggest problems with starting this. There seems to be a huge debate between certain things in the grow community and both sides tend to make reasonable arguments to support their side. I decided in the end to go with a flush since one side states it will make no difference except hurt yields but the other side says you will get smoother and tastier product in the end. To me it seemed like a good idea to err on the side of smoother and tastier bud. I would rather risk a smaller return than harsher bud.

My biggest problem is the limitation of the number of plants I can have. It is very hard to get reliable data with so many factors at play without the ability to grow a number of plants. I ended up going with autoflowers so I could start new plants in the same grow tent as those already growing, just thought it made sense not worrying about the light change for now and once I get a handle on things can worry more about photo plants that I can train more. Really needed to make sure I could keep these ladies alive through their life cycle as a first step. I also went with coco instead of soil figuring it is a blank medium and allows me to be specific as to what the plants get for nutes. That is also why I started with RO water as it seemed more a blank slate.

As for RO water it is a bit of a pain to get. My tap water here has chloramine in it so I was concerned about using it as unlike chlorine I cannot just allow it to evaporate. I just recently ordered some Nutrafin A7930 Aqua Plus Water Conditioner that is supposed to remove chloramine from my tap water. Have you heard of this product and if so do you have any idea how it may effect the plants? It would be a great a cheap treatment for my tap water.

I also think I am using too small a pot. It is in a 3 gallon fabric pot. The next 2 I started are in 2.5 gallon plastic pots (White Widow). When I feel the pot of the Northern Lights in the picture it feels very solid. I get the feeling it is root bound but won't know exactly what is going on until I chop it and pull the roots out of the pot. When it came time to start my 4th plant I ended up transplanting it (Early Miss) into a 5 gallon fabric pot and now it has exploded. I get the feeling the 5 gallon pot is were I need to be, what do you think about the size of pot needed?

Now for the PH stuff. You did not over explain at all, as I a matter of fact I am a bit of a glutton for data so I appreciate you taking the time. I have been adjusting the ph to 5.8 after adding the nutes as I was under the impression at was the best for maximum nutirent uptake in coco? I have also been using Armor SI and CaliMagic. A range of 5.5 to 6.4 in coco or 6.3 to 6.8 in soil is what I read was optimal. Am I misinformed? All I have been able to draw on are forums so speaking to someone with actual practical experience is just fantastic.

Here are a couple pics of my latest plant Early Miss, she is still vegging after going into the 5 gallon pot but from what I can tell is a nice looking plant. I trimmed off the couple yellowing leaves on the bottom after I took the pic

 

[Doug Dawson]

no problem. looks really great for your first plant. you've already waited longer than most people wait to harvest their first plant so you should be proud and you will be rewarded for your patience. welcome to the hobby and RIU.

Thanks very much @pulpoinspace, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

 

[Doug Dawson]

"final flush" is one of the many myths in Cannabis growing perpetuated by broscientists. It makes no sense at all and there is no good evidence that it does anything but stunt your plants growth. Just keep providing ideal conditions and keep them as healthy as possible until you chop.

@Observe & Report, I just realized I did not say thanks for your reply. I appreciate the information. It is fantastic to find a place where I can go and just throw out a question and have folks take the time to respond. People like you taking time out of your day to help a stranger are rare. Here I am a total nobody to you and the other guys who responded but you all took the time to provide input. I am grateful, thanks.

 

[pulpoinspace]

Thanks very much @pulpoinspace, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

no problem. i think you made a good choice choosing coco. coco/peat/perlite are the best medium to learn in so you can really develop understanding of when and how much nutrients to use. i'd also add that i support what Mr. Mike Hunt is saying up there. RO/distilled water and pH adjusters can really cause more problems than they fix. if your tap water is under 200 ppm i would consider giving it a try. the chloromine is no problem at all. the amounts in tap water are so small they wont hurt your plants.

as for actual pH levels i'm sure you've seen this chart below or something similar. 5.8pH wont hurt, but if you always do 5.8 you lock out calcium and magnesium. so the important thing here is drift. sometimes you want 5.8 so the plant can uptake Mn, B,a nd P but other times you want 6.3 so the plant can uptake calcium and magnesium. thats why mike was saying 5.8 is too low of a target. its okay if its 5.8 sometimes but shoot for 6-6.3 as a target. i personally grow in peat/perlite (promix) and i use tap water that comes out ~200ppm 8.5 pH and it smells of chlorine, i just bring it down to around 6.5 with a couple mL of down per gallon and its good to go!

 

[newbplantgrower420]

"final flush" is one of the many myths in Cannabis growing perpetuated by broscientists. It makes no sense at all and there is no good evidence that it does anything but stunt your plants growth. Just keep providing ideal conditions and keep them as healthy as possible until you chop.

thats what i told somebody i know.

he said when he smokes a joint with his stuff...it doesnt burn white when he doesnt flush the last week. but when he does flush....it does burn white.

why is that?

he's told me he uses like 7-8 bottles of nutrients and water changes 3-4x over the course of an 9 week flowering period.

hes also in rockwool....that medium holds more salt than coco and soil right? maybe thats why?

i told him to cut down on the nutrients this isnt early 2000s anymore u dont need that many nutes. thats my guess as to why his stuff doesnt burn white unless he flushes the last week

 

[Michael Huntherz]

thats what i told somebody i know.

he said when he smokes a joint with his stuff...it doesnt burn white when he doesnt flush the last week. but when he does flush....it does burn white.

why is that?

Insufficient curing. Curing is the key to the mythical white ash, any other perceived difference is due to a formal cognitive bias known as confirmation bias.

I will respond at more length soon.

One cannot flush nutrient salts from plants, plant roots do not ingest salts, they ingest elements. Salts are not elements by the chemical definition of the word salt. The entire pre-harvest flush argument is based in half-fact and misapplied notions of causation.

 

[Doug Dawson]

no problem. i think you made a good choice choosing coco. coco/peat/perlite are the best medium to learn in so you can really develop understanding of when and how much nutrients to use. i'd also add that i support what Mr. Mike Hunt is saying up there. RO/distilled water and pH adjusters can really cause more problems than they fix. if your tap water is under 200 ppm i would consider giving it a try. the chloromine is no problem at all. the amounts in tap water are so small they wont hurt your plants.

as for actual pH levels i'm sure you've seen this chart below or something similar. 5.8pH wont hurt, but if you always do 5.8 you lock out calcium and magnesium. so the important thing here is drift. sometimes you want 5.8 so the plant can uptake Mn, B,a nd P but other times you want 6.3 so the plant can uptake calcium and magnesium. thats why mike was saying 5.8 is too low of a target. its okay if its 5.8 sometimes but shoot for 6-6.3 as a target. i personally grow in peat/perlite (promix) and i use tap water that comes out ~200ppm 8.5 pH and it smells of chlorine, i just bring it down to around 6.5 with a couple mL of down per gallon and its good to go!

View attachment 4561430

That chart is very helpful, thanks. This is what I meant by practical knowledge, the chart I have been looking at is different. I was basing my decision of 5.8 using that chart but your chart says I have been likely blocking Mg and Ca which defeats my use of CaliMagic. I saw a couple orange spots on some leaves that seemed like a Calcium defitiency but could not figure it out since I was adding Calcium so your chart make much more sense. I just tested my tap water and it comes through at 134ppm. It does smell like chlorine. Do you think I would be better adding the neutralizer or just leaving it the way it is? If the plants are fine with it I would just leave it but don't want to create damage? I would be very happy to be able to use tap water instead of RO but if I do should I still be adding CaliMagic?

 

[Gentlemencorpse]

Hello @Michael Huntherz, thanks for your reply. I have seen what you mean regarding the argument between the flush/don't flush folks. This has been one of my biggest problems with starting this. There seems to be a huge debate between certain things in the grow community and both sides tend to make reasonable arguments to support their side. I decided in the end to go with a flush since one side states it will make no difference except hurt yields but the other side says you will get smoother and tastier product in the end. To me it seemed like a good idea to err on the side of smoother and tastier bud. I would rather risk a smaller return than harsher bud.

My biggest problem is the limitation of the number of plants I can have. It is very hard to get reliable data with so many factors at play without the ability to grow a number of plants. I ended up going with autoflowers so I could start new plants in the same grow tent as those already growing, just thought it made sense not worrying about the light change for now and once I get a handle on things can worry more about photo plants that I can train more. Really needed to make sure I could keep these ladies alive through their life cycle as a first step. I also went with coco instead of soil figuring it is a blank medium and allows me to be specific as to what the plants get for nutes. That is also why I started with RO water as it seemed more a blank slate.

As for RO water it is a bit of a pain to get. My tap water here has chloramine in it so I was concerned about using it as unlike chlorine I cannot just allow it to evaporate. I just recently ordered some Nutrafin A7930 Aqua Plus Water Conditioner that is supposed to remove chloramine from my tap water. Have you heard of this product and if so do you have any idea how it may effect the plants? It would be a great a cheap treatment for my tap water.

I also think I am using too small a pot. It is in a 3 gallon fabric pot. The next 2 I started are in 2.5 gallon plastic pots (White Widow). When I feel the pot of the Northern Lights in the picture it feels very solid. I get the feeling it is root bound but won't know exactly what is going on until I chop it and pull the roots out of the pot. When it came time to start my 4th plant I ended up transplanting it (Early Miss) into a 5 gallon fabric pot and now it has exploded. I get the feeling the 5 gallon pot is were I need to be, what do you think about the size of pot needed?

Now for the PH stuff. You did not over explain at all, as I a matter of fact I am a bit of a glutton for data so I appreciate you taking the time. I have been adjusting the ph to 5.8 after adding the nutes as I was under the impression at was the best for maximum nutirent uptake in coco? I have also been using Armor SI and CaliMagic. A range of 5.5 to 6.4 in coco or 6.3 to 6.8 in soil is what I read was optimal. Am I misinformed? All I have been able to draw on are forums so speaking to someone with actual practical experience is just fantastic.

Here are a couple pics of my latest plant Early Miss, she is still vegging after going into the 5 gallon pot but from what I can tell is a nice looking plant. I trimmed off the couple yellowing leaves on the bottom after I took the pic

The problem with the idea that both sides have reasonable arguments is that the don't flush side references science and the flush side has nothing but unreliable anecdotal evidence. As far as I'm concerned your erring on the side of nothing. The no flush crowd is actually saying you'll get better yield AND it will taste better. Someday I hope someone smarter than I figured out how to test the buds for residual nutrients so we can just put this argument to bed.

 

[Doug Dawson]

thats what i told somebody i know.

he said when he smokes a joint with his stuff...it doesnt burn white when he doesnt flush the last week. but when he does flush....it does burn white.

why is that?

he's told me he uses like 7-8 bottles of nutrients and water changes 3-4x over the course of an 9 week flowering period.

hes also in rockwool....that medium holds more salt than coco and soil right? maybe thats why?

i told him to cut down on the nutrients this isnt early 2000s anymore u dont need that many nutes. thats my guess as to why his stuff doesnt burn white unless he flushes the last week

Thanks for your reply. I am likely also guilty of using too many nutrients. This is something I will have to correct as I go. I have always believed in too much is better than not enough but have quickly discovered when it comes to plants that is not the case. Too much can do a ton of damage so there is going to be a learning curve there for me. My first plant feels like it is looking pretty good but there is some tip burn that is clearly my fault. The big key for me is identifying why and correcting. Just going to a 5 gallon pot instead of a 3 for the last plant I started seems to be having a positive effect. I don't have any issue with being wrong, they could fill entire libaries, and have, with things I don't know. I am confident that in time with practice, study and some guidence from more experienced folks that in the end I will be able to speak plant. I look forward to that day but am really enjoying the journey. Many thanks.

 

[Doug Dawson]

Insufficient curing. Curing is the key to the mythical white ash, any other perceived difference is due to a formal cognitive bias known as confirmation bias.

I will respond at more length soon.

One cannot flush nutrient salts from plants, plant roots do not ingest salts, they ingest elements. The entire pre-harvest flush argument is based in half-fact and misapplied notions of causation.

That is great, I look forward to reading your reply. You folks are awesome.

 

[Doug Dawson]

The problem with the idea that both sides have reasonable arguments is that the don't flush side references science and the flush side has nothing but unreliable anecdotal evidence. As far as I'm concerned your erring on the side of nothing. The no flush crowd is actually saying you'll get better yield AND it will taste better. Someday I hope someone smarter than I figured out how to test the buds for residual nutrients so we can just put this argument to bed.

Thanks for your response. As a newbie with no experience I can really have no input on the debate between flush/don't flush. I wish I did but just have not got any practical experiece to back it up so anyting I say would just be guess work or extrapolated from someone else's data. I would love to set up half a dozen plants and do a test with half flushing and the other half not but unfortunatly that is not an option with our current laws here. Judging by the response from actual growers like yourself and the others who have responded I think I many just skip the flush and see how things turn out. In the end I just want what is best for my ladies since the better I treat them, the better they should treat me. I really appreciate your input, thanks again for your reply.