Is this plant ready to flush?

Doug Dawson said:

That chart is very helpful, thanks. This is what I meant by practical knowledge, the chart I have been looking at is different. I was basing my decision of 5.8 using that chart but your chart says I have been likely blocking Mg and Ca which defeats my use of CaliMagic. I saw a couple orange spots on some leaves that seemed like a Calcium defitiency but could not figure it out since I was adding Calcium so your chart make much more sense. I just tested my tap water and it comes through at 134ppm. It does smell like chlorine. Do you think I would be better adding the neutralizer or just leaving it the way it is? If the plants are fine with it I would just leave it but don't want to create damage? I would be very happy to be able to use tap water instead of RO but if I do should I still be adding CaliMagic?
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Yeah its a really common problem to have calcium and magnesium lockouts from pH down or acidic medium in general. personally i wouldnt bother with the chloramine treatment, just because i know that the chlorine/chloromine won't hurt the plants and i'm not 100% sure about the treatment, but it would probably be fine as well.

as for the calimagic, you would probably find if you did go the tap water route that you wouldn't need it. the main parts of any nutrient line (usually A and B) should be all you need. be warned though most of the 150 ppms in your tap water is probably calcium with little to no magnesium, and a lot of strains these days are magnesium hungry especially under powerful lights, so many growers supplement with epsom salt if you end up seeing a magnesium deficiency. all i use is the A and B parts of a mainstream nutrient system (house and garden) and the only thing i supplement with is ~100ppm of epsom salt every other feeding or else i start to see mag def. good thing is epsom salt is really cheap at the pharmacy just make sure to get unscented kind, pure magnesium sulfate. i used to use silica (which is great actually so use it since you have it) and roots excelurator and a bunch of other additives but over the years i've found for myself and heard from countless others that all you need is the main nutes and possibly a little epsom salt.

Gentlemencorpse said:

The problem with the idea that both sides have reasonable arguments is that the don't flush side references science and the flush side has nothing but unreliable anecdotal evidence. As far as I'm concerned your erring on the side of nothing. The no flush crowd is actually saying you'll get better yield AND it will taste better. Someday I hope someone smarter than I figured out how to test the buds for residual nutrients so we can just put this argument to bed.

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Yeah, this, succinctly put. Cheers.

pulpoinspace said:

Yeah its a really common problem to have calcium and magnesium lockouts from pH down or acidic medium in general. personally i wouldnt bother with the chloramine treatment, just because i know that the chlorine/chloromine won't hurt the plants and i'm not 100% sure about the treatment, but it would probably be fine as well.

as for the calimagic, you would probably find if you did go the tap water route that you wouldn't need it. the main parts of any nutrient line (usually A and B) should be all you need. be warned though most of the 150 ppms in your tap water is probably calcium with little to no magnesium, and a lot of strains these days are magnesium hungry especially under powerful lights, so many growers supplement with epsom salt if you end up seeing a magnesium deficiency. all i use is the A and B parts of a mainstream nutrient system (house and garden) and the only thing i supplement with is ~100ppm of epsom salt every other feeding or else i start to see mag def. good thing is epsom salt is really cheap at the pharmacy just make sure to get unscented kind, pure magnesium sulfate. i used to use silica (which is great actually so use it since you have it) and roots excelurator and a bunch of other additives but over the years i've found for myself and heard from countless others that all you need is the main nutes and possibly a little epsom salt.

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Thank you so much for your advice. I love the idea of only needing a simple A and B nutrient system with possibly needing to add magnesium. As a first timer I knew I was going overboard but I wanted to do all I could so I bought the General Hydroponics expert program nutes which consists of 13 products. Every batch I have mixed has been like a science experiment. I read about things like the Lucas Formula which only uses FloraMicro and FloraBloom and I kept thinking how that sounded so much simpler. It is great to know that I have an option that will keep the plants happy without having to go through the mixing of so many products. I will give it a go. I am guessing with the few plants I am able to grow the bottles I got will last quite some time but it is good to know I won't have to replace them all. Many thanks.

Doug Dawson said:

Thanks very much, I will keep them going a while, I am in no hurry. As I say this is new to me and my first plant. I have a couple more going now but am limited to 4 plants here in Canada so it will be a bit of a process getting some actual practical experience. I started 2 White Widow and 1 Early Miss after this one. The Widows are a few weeks into budding and the Early Miss is still vegging. The one in the pics is in a 3 gallon fabric pot but feels root bound, I moved up to a 5 gallon by time I started Early Miss and she is getting bigger than this Northern Lights. I am using coco with 20% perlite and using General Hydroponics advanced series nutes and feeding at half what they suggest in the feeding schedule. I am also using RO water PH balanced to 5.8 for feeding. Looks like a got a bit of nute burn so will need to be looking at that going forward. I am really looking forward getting this first plant dried and cured, it's been a fun start to to a new hobby. Thank you again for your reply.

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G’day new poster here from down under you mentioned nite burn you should defiantly have decreased nutes by about half by now Essorcaialy if using any booster product. They are looking great but really want those leaves to yellow in last 10 days hope it helps

Here ya go...I posted this a few days ago. I'd like to think this'll put an end to the debate about soil flushing but somehow I think it will outlive us all.

Well done bud, is this your first grow? Keep up the good work.

Doug Dawson said:

Thank you so much for your advice. I love the idea of only needing a simple A and B nutrient system with possibly needing to add magnesium. As a first timer I knew I was going overboard but I wanted to do all I could so I bought the General Hydroponics expert program nutes which consists of 13 products. Every batch I have mixed has been like a science experiment. I read about things like the Lucas Formula which only uses FloraMicro and FloraBloom and I kept thinking how that sounded so much simpler. It is great to know that I have an option that will keep the plants happy without having to go through the mixing of so many products. I will give it a go. I am guessing with the few plants I am able to grow the bottles I got will last quite some time but it is good to know I won't have to replace them all. Many thanks.

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Most of the things I wanted to say have already been said, and I agree with posts I liked in here.
The rest are in The HT article, haha. Great link!

The amount of chloramine in your water is over 2-4 ppm then consider using some Seachem Prime to neutralize it. It is an aquarium product, it works as claimed in the bottle, it takes a tiny amount and it will add a bit of sulfur which is often a great idea.

I make my own nutes, simple AB formula, pennies on the dollar compared to many canna-specific products, works great. When you’re ready to go that route just dive in on. There’s a thread or two on riu about how to do it. I like weights and measures and caustic potions, so I find it relaxing. I mix a batch of nutes twice a year, it takes an hour.

For me the growing hobby is a game of learning, iterative learning.

Doug if you have a specific question I glazed over because I am tired and high as a motherfucker, please don’t hesitate to ask.

I caught a snake today, derp.

newbplantgrower420 said:

thats what i told somebody i know.

he said when he smokes a joint with his stuff...it doesnt burn white when he doesnt flush the last week. but when he does flush....it does burn white.

why is that?

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I don't know because there are a bunch of reasons why your friend could be saying that. That is why scientists do a lot of hard work carrying out experiments where they control variables, take careful measurements, and use sound statistical methods to find out the truth.

What if unflushed plants are healthier, live longer after being chopped, and take longer to dry? The explanation could be as simple as moister buds don't burn as easily, but without measuring and controlling moisture levels in the buds then there is no way to know. It is a confounding variable.

What if there wasn't really any difference in ash production but your friend just has that impression? There is no way to know without measuring the weight and color of the ash and logging the results. If you're a believer in flushing then you might not notice when a bowl of flushed buds burns incompletely but when it happens with an unflushed crop it stands out like a sore thumb. Scientists call that "confirmation bias."

On the other hand, some of the objections to flushing are based an actual science. It is a fact that some elements are immobile and can't be translocated once deposited in plant tissue. So if the parts of the plant that need them can't get them from the xylem because they have been flushed out of the root zone or it is simply depleted then the processes that depend on them won't be able to proceed. That is part of why flushing makes no sense. How the elements get "flushed" out of the plant is also a complete mystery because it doesn't make sense. Where do they go?

Ultimately, the proponents of flushing carry the burden of proving their claims. Plant nutrition is a well studied topic so a conventional approach of ensuring all elements are available in proportions that keep the plant healthy would be the null hypothesis.

I'm only aware of one attempt to do something like a controlled experiment on flushing. The results were not positive but the experiment also wasn't very high quality. Needs More Research™️

Observe & Report said:

"final flush" is one of the many myths in Cannabis growing perpetuated by broscientists. It makes no sense at all and there is no good evidence that it does anything but stunt your plants growth. Just keep providing ideal conditions and keep them as healthy as possible until you chop.

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twentyeight.threefive said:

Plant Flushing: The Importance of Flushing Your Plants Before Harvest

We're exploring the truth about plant flushing: what it is, why it’s so important, and the best way to go about flushing for maximum benefit.

cannacon.org

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That article says nothing. Just repeats a bunch of unsubstantiated claims then links to some flushing product they want to sell you at the end. They claim they have a bunch of scientists backing up their claims, but provide no research or real scientific papers to support their claims. If they have actual evidence I'd love to see it. In fact, I'm emailing them right now to ask for it.

JDDank said:

G’day new poster here from down under you mentioned nite burn you should defiantly have decreased nutes by about half by now Essorcaialy if using any booster product. They are looking great but really want those leaves to yellow in last 10 days hope it helps

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Many thanks.

dannyboy602 said:

Here ya go...I posted this a few days ago. I'd like to think this'll put an end to the debate about soil flushing but somehow I think it will outlive us all.

New Research Shows Flushing Plants Before Harvest May Be Unnecessary

In a blind taste test, researchers have found that many prefer cannabis that has not been flushed before harvest.

hightimes.com

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Great read, thanks for posting it.

Mariosehr said:

Well done bud, is this your first grow? Keep up the good work.

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Hello, yes that is my first plant ever. It has been fun, I have another on the grow I posted some pics of still in veg. Thanks, it's nice to hear other opinions, especially since I have no practical experience at all. My bud has always come in a bag until now. The more I learn the more I understand I have allot to learn but I am thoroughly enjoying the start of what should be a long journey.

Michael Huntherz said:

Most of the things I wanted to say have already been said, and I agree with posts I liked in here.
The rest are in The HT article, haha. Great link!

The amount of chloramine in your water is over 2-4 ppm then consider using some Seachem Prime to neutralize it. It is an aquarium product, it works as claimed in the bottle, it takes a tiny amount and it will add a bit of sulfur which is often a great idea.

I make my own nutes, simple AB formula, pennies on the dollar compared to many canna-specific products, works great. When you’re ready to go that route just dive in on. There’s a thread or two on riu about how to do it. I like weights and measures and caustic potions, so I find it relaxing. I mix a batch of nutes twice a year, it takes an hour.

For me the growing hobby is a game of learning, iterative learning.

Doug if you have a specific question I glazed over because I am tired and high as a motherfucker, please don’t hesitate to ask.

I caught a snake today, derp.

Click to expand...

Many thanks. I ordered up some Seachem Prime. For the price I don't think I can really go wrong and I would much rather get the chloramine out of my water. One day I will probably try making my own nutes but for now I have a box of all the GH products which I will likely use up so as not to waste the money invested. From what I have read they are good nutes but many are redundant and unnecessary. Thanks for the advice on the chloramine remover, I look forward to getting off RO water.

Gentlemencorpse said:

The problem with the idea that both sides have reasonable arguments is that the don't flush side references science and the flush side has nothing but unreliable anecdotal evidence. As far as I'm concerned your erring on the side of nothing. The no flush crowd is actually saying you'll get better yield AND it will taste better. Someday I hope someone smarter than I figured out how to test the buds for residual nutrients so we can just put this argument to bed.

Click to expand...

twentyeight.threefive said:

Plant Flushing: The Importance of Flushing Your Plants Before Harvest

We're exploring the truth about plant flushing: what it is, why it’s so important, and the best way to go about flushing for maximum benefit.

cannacon.org

Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. I just read through that article and that is defiantly defending one side of this argument however I would be hesitant to pay too much attention to an article by a nutrient line producer who is boasting about their flushing product. Just feels to me that they would be biased and would not benefit from saying flushing is a waste of time since they are trying to make money on flushing products. I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond though so thank you.

Your largely not botanists farmers or ag tech so when you here of methods like flushing, darkness before harvesting, boveda, cal/mag you have a tendancy to pull up the bandwagon and make a big song and dance about it trying to convince everyone else that its the way or you get shitty tasting bud.

Were just trying to steer you clear of a whole world of un-needed broscience bullcrud and the monster you will become here trying to convince excellent growers that they are wrong and you are right.

Its not just a flush, its a gateway method to a lot of rubbish others produce better product without.

Doug Dawson said:

Hello, yes that is my first plant ever. It has been fun, I have another on the grow I posted some pics of still in veg. Thanks, it's nice to hear other opinions, especially since I have no practical experience at all. My bud has always come in a bag until now. The more I learn the more I understand I have allot to learn but I am thoroughly enjoying the start of what should be a long journey.

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you'll never stop learning , thats the great part! mother nature is a bitch to replicate so we'll always be learning.

"Flushing" The word itself needs changed in the grow world. The proof is here, there everywhere. Common flushing where you dump a shiton of water through the pot to leach out nutes is completely impossible an makes zero sense. 99.5% of the time , that would never be needed in ANY plant.

Real flushing is to just water only till your soil runs out of food. its not called flushing, its just called taking care of the girls.
NOW, letting them go yellow and start to die is up for debate. I say keep them green an others say yellow tastes better.
From my experience , the healthier the plant , the higher it tests, period.
Then you have the actual test numbers. Green plant tests at 18% thc and yellow plant tests at 17.2% thc. IF the yellow tastes better then its worth it to let them go yellow but i dont agree with this.

Observe & Report said:

What if there wasn't really any difference in ash production but your friend just has that impression? There is no way to know without measuring the weight and color of the ash and logging the results. If you're a believer in flushing then you might not notice when a bowl of flushed buds burns incompletely but when it happens with an unflushed crop it stands out like a sore thumb. Scientists call that "confirmation bias."
...
Plant nutrition is a well studied topic so a conventional approach of ensuring all elements are available in proportions that keep the plant healthy would be the null hypothesis.

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Thanks for your great post, I agree so hard with the possibility of confirmation bias in this context.
Thanks for being a science nerd, and for typing what I was too busy to say yesterday.

coreywebster said:

Cannabis Flushing Study on Grow Nutrients I Rx Green

Rx Green’s research study on cannabis flushing explores the truth behind this urban myth in growing nutrients.

www.rxgreentechnologies.com

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That shows some great data, thanks very much. It was a great read.