Not Locking down doesn't work

[Fogdog]

The much touted Swedish experiment where they didn't lock down, kept social gathering places open, told people to "be careful" and otherwise just let the epidemic have its way, left the country with thousands more dead than if they had locked down. Swedish leadership justified the swift deaths of their elderly population and others by claiming it would save lives in the long run by keeping the economy strong. If true, this is morally questionable. But then again, is it even true? Analysts of European economies are saying they see even that flabby excuse as false.

Sweden unlikely to feel economic benefit of no-lockdown approach
Analysts forecast that growth will contract at a similar rate to rest of Europe

Sweden unlikely to feel economic benefit of no-lockdown approach | Free to read

Analysts forecast that growth will contract at a similar rate to rest of Europe

www.ft.com

Sweden refused to follow other European countries in closing its primary schools and kindergartens or banning people from leaving their homes, arguing that taking such “draconian measures” was not sustainable and could unnecessarily harm the economy. Swedish business leaders such as Jacob Wallenberg have urged authorities to take the economy into consideration when thinking of imposing restrictions, or risk social unrest.

Sweden, with a population of 10m, has had 3,220 deaths so far from coronavirus — more than triple the number in neighbouring Denmark, Finland and Norway, which have a combined population of 15m. Relative to population 311 people have died per million in Sweden, while in neighbouring Norway the toll so far is 40 per million.

 

[Kassiopeija]

First lol

 

[srh88]

I vote cheezyburger lol I'm hungry

 

[captainmorgan]

Scandinavian people are some of the healthiest people on the planet as a whole, I can see why they decided to go this route. They also have higher vitamin D levels.

 

[Kassiopeija]

I vote cheezyburger lol I'm hungry

yes that cheeseburger got me too btw what again is the topic here...?

 

[Dr.Amber Trichome]

Lockdown is over! It worked!!
We are trained and ready for the next
Lockdown.

 

[Fogdog]

Scandinavian people are some of the healthiest people on the planet as a whole, I can see why they decided to go this route. They also have higher vitamin D levels.

Top six "healthiest countries"

1 Spain,
2 Italy,
3 Iceland
4 Japan,
5 Switzerland
6 Sweden

The healthiest countries in the world have been revealed

The UK was placed 19th on the list of 169 countries

www.independent.co.uk

But, yeah, do take the vit. D.

 

[Kassiopeija]

Lockdown is over! It worked!!
We are trained and ready for the next
Lockdown.

1000 Years Lockdown!
Lockdown is Hell!
But its score is awesome...

 

[captainmorgan]

Top six "healthiest countries"

1 Spain,
2 Italy,
3 Iceland
4 Japan,
5 Switzerland
6 Sweden

The healthiest countries in the world have been revealed

The UK was placed 19th on the list of 169 countries

www.independent.co.uk

But, yeah, do take the vit. D.

Yeah, Iceland,Sweden and Norway are in the top ten, Finland just outside the top ten and they have higher vitiman D levels than southern Europe because of their diet.

 

[Fogdog]

Yeah, Iceland,Sweden and Norway are in the top ten, Finland just outside the top ten and they have higher vitiman D levels than southern Europe because of their diet.

Spain and Italy were clobbered by coronavirus. Being healthy and having high vit D is good for other reasons. It's just that having a healthy population is still a poor reason to just let coronavirus visit and stay for dinner.

 

[captainmorgan]

Spain and Italy were clobbered by coronavirus. Being healthy and having high vit D is good for other reasons. It's just that having a healthy population is still a poor reason to just let coronavirus visit and stay for dinner.

They aren't ignoring it,they are taking the usual precautions but are not locked down,they actually listen to their government and scientists. It's a gamble but they are doing much better than we are. It's also a gamble to count on a vaccine in the near future,many scientists are skeptical we can develop one anytime soon. If recovering from it gives you immunity and they reach herd immunity the gamble will pay off. If you don't get immunity from getting it then we are all fucked and a vaccine is our only hope and that's a long shot for the near future.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Scandinavian people are some of the healthiest people on the planet as a whole, I can see why they decided to go this route. They also have higher vitamin D levels.

Vitamin D Insufficiency is Prevalent in Severe COVID-19
Background: COVID-19 is a major pandemic that has killed more than 196,000 people. The COVID-19 disease course is strikingly divergent. Approximately 80-85% of patients experience mild or no symptoms, while the remainder develop severe disease. The mechanisms underlying these divergent outcomes...

www.medrxiv.org

Vitamin D Insufficiency is Prevalent in Severe COVID-19

Abstract
Background: COVID-19 is a major pandemic that has killed more than 196,000 people. The COVID-19 disease course is strikingly divergent. Approximately 80-85% of patients experience mild or no symptoms, while the remainder develop severe disease. The mechanisms underlying these divergent outcomes are unclear. Emerging health disparities data regarding African American and homeless populations suggest that vitamin D insufficiency (VDI) may be an underlying driver of COVID-19 severity. To better define the VDI-COVID-19 link, we determined the prevalence of VDI among our COVID-19 intensive care unit (ICU) patients. Methods: In an Institutional Review Board approved study performed at a single, tertiary care academic medical center, the medical records of COVID-19 patients were retrospectively reviewed. Subjects were included for whom serum 25-hydroxycholecalcifoerol (25OHD) levels were determined. COVID-19-relevant data were compiled and analyzed. We determined the frequency of VDI among COVID-19 patients to evaluate the likelihood of a VDI-COVID-19 relationship. Results: Twenty COVID-19 patients with serum 25OHD levels were identified; 65.0% required ICU admission.The VDI prevalence in ICU patients was 84.6%, vs. 57.1% in floor patients. Strikingly, 100% of ICU patients less than 75 years old had VDI. Coagulopathy was present in 62.5% of ICU COVID-19 patients, and 92.3% were lymphocytopenic. Conclusions: VDI is highly prevalent in severe COVID-19 patients. VDI and severe COVID-19 share numerous associations including hypertension, obesity, male sex, advanced age, concentration in northern climates, coagulopathy, and immune dysfunction. Thus, we suggest that prospective, randomized controlled studies of VDI in COVID-19 patients are warranted.

 

[Rob Roy]

The kid across the street is skipping school and failing. Your response is to spank your kids and send them to bed.

Brilliant!

 

[UncleBuck]

Oh look

 

[dabby duck]

Dude very pathetic and faux liberal too!

Im in oregon as well, my neighbor is breaking quarantine right now...guess what they do?
Teach electric vehicle repair at Portland Community College, you know Pcc....fake ass liberal virtue signalers like you. All drive and commute with Ford v8s, comical.....do they have an anymous user profile here? Probably.....lockdown in Oregon especially PDX has been in theory only, not practiced.

 

[Fogdog]

They aren't ignoring it,they are taking the usual precautions but are not locked down,they actually listen to their government and scientists. It's a gamble but they are doing much better than we are. It's also a gamble to count on a vaccine in the near future,many scientists are skeptical we can develop one anytime soon. If recovering from it gives you immunity and they reach herd immunity the gamble will pay off. If you don't get immunity from getting it then we are all fucked and a vaccine is our only hope and that's a long shot for the near future.

My earlier post to you was in response to the assumption that a healthy population is less likely to have high death rates due to covid-19. I was observing that Spain and Italy both rate highly on the "healthy population" list, 1st and 2nd according to World Health Organization data, yet they are among the worst for death rates due to CV. Those countries locked down late. Sweden rated high on that list too and they were clobbered. They didn't lock down at all. On the worldometer tracker for CV, deaths per 1M population, Italy rated 4th highest, Spain 5th and Sweden 9th. Denmark and Norway, which did lock down early are way down in the list.

Agree that a vaccine is the only long term answer to this problem. A year is an optimistic (translation: improbable) earliest release date and "never" is more likely, with "years before one is available" being more realistic. There is so much that we don't know about this virus, including, as you say, whether immunity can be achieved and how resistant a person is after they recover.

Sweden went through the pain of exposing everybody to the virus, had very high mortality compared to its lock-down neighbors and it doesn't seem that their bet for the economy paid off. Personally, I think that sacrificing peoples lives for consumerism is immoral and is an unhealthy choice for a society. Morality aside, it doesn't even have an economic benefit. A double whammy to the people of Sweden would be if we find that recovery from infection doesn't provide much immunity.

This thing will be with us for a while. It landed on the world stage with an unknown but very high cost and not just financial costs. What we do can't drive the cost down but can make costs go up, as Sweden is showing us. Countries that have focused their resources on widespread testing, contact tracing and isolation protocols seem to be doing better in terms of saving lives, saving their economy and communicating humane social values than those that took a less proactive approach.

Not locking down doesn't work.

 

[Fogdog]

Dude very pathetic and faux liberal too!

Im in oregon as well, my neighbor is breaking quarantine right now...guess what they do?
Teach electric vehicle repair at Portland Community College, you know Pcc....fake ass liberal virtue signalers like you. All drive and commute with Ford v8s, comical.....do they have an anymous user profile here? Probably.....lockdown in Oregon especially PDX has been in theory only, not practiced.

Oregon's lockdown is working quite well. I can't help your ignorance on this subject. As you say, we are not a police state and some people are being idiots about this. So, yeah it's not perfect but good enough to drive the daily count of new infections and deaths due to the virus to the single digits.

Compare our experience to Alabama's and you'll see that not locking down doesn't work.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

They aren't ignoring it,they are taking the usual precautions but are not locked down,they actually listen to their government and scientists. It's a gamble but they are doing much better than we are. It's also a gamble to count on a vaccine in the near future,many scientists are skeptical we can develop one anytime soon. If recovering from it gives you immunity and they reach herd immunity the gamble will pay off. If you don't get immunity from getting it then we are all fucked and a vaccine is our only hope and that's a long shot for the near future.

There are 10 million swedes and with a mortality rate of 1% that would be 100,000 dead people, that's a helluva hit to take over a year let's say. Mortality rates range from .4% to 3.5% depending on demographics and the quality of care, assuming no effective treatments. The healthiest countries have the highest percentage of older people, since they tend to live longer. Sweden is gonna clean out it's nursing homes and also wipe out a large number of the vulnerable.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I was looking for some swedish model projections when I ran across this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Grim Truth About the “Swedish Model” | by Hans Bergstrom - Project Syndicate

Hans Bergstrom explains why the country adopted a lethally misguided approach to COVID-19, resulting in a high death toll.

www.project-syndicate.org

The Grim Truth About the “Swedish Model”
Apr 17, 2020HANS BERGSTROM
As the coronavirus pandemic has swept the planet, Sweden has stood out among Western democracies by pursuing a "low-scale" lockdown. Whether this approach speaks to a unique strength of Swedish society, as opposed to bad judgment, can be determined by comparing Sweden's COVID-19 rate with its neighbors'.
more...

 

[UncleBuck]

Dude very pathetic and faux liberal too!

Im in oregon as well, my neighbor is breaking quarantine right now...guess what they do?
Teach electric vehicle repair at Portland Community College, you know Pcc....fake ass liberal virtue signalers like you. All drive and commute with Ford v8s, comical.....do they have an anymous user profile here? Probably.....lockdown in Oregon especially PDX has been in theory only, not practiced.

Oh hey