Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Damn 8 tracks!
Lockdowns work.
- Thread starter rkymtnman
- Start date
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
Have you also observed the trend that the more advanced societies get in general the more the people loose their individual rights due to an never-ending increasingly amount of laws, regulations & rules one must follow? Politicans are always very fast to empower their own cause but seldomly do we see that things are simplified or less ordered.
The thing is that politicans do this to increase the efficiency of their society, next thing will be only digital cash because coins & paper can be infectious. As a side-effect, the state knows all money transfer which gives them yet another level of control. And so on... ofc the people have to agree to this so the actual job of a politican is actually to "inform" you in such a way that the majority agrees. By "free will" and ofc not influenced by mass media manipulation....
Nevertheless, states can offer alot of statistical proof that their measurements are effective & appropriate. If you don't agree go dare challenge them with equal proof.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
I've never like the nihilistic -almost satanistic- aspects of buddhism with all their inversion of reality. How much freedom of thought or movement of muscle does one have in the grave?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Some problems with reopening, even in those blue states doing it safely, I think more discipline is required to get some people to tow the line. There are an awful lot of idiots out there these days, getting some people to wear a mask is gonna be impossible without prosecution and even then some won't. As well as electing Trump, wearing a mask is kinda a national IQ test too, it seems many more Trumpers eschew mask wearing than democrats. I imagine many of these crowded places are filled with self deluded or ignorant people, so there should be lots of Trumpers among them.
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CO Gov.: I Told Trump About People's 'Fear And Pain' | Hallie Jackson | MSNBC
Colorado Governor Jared Polis (D) joins Ayman Mohyeldin after he traveled to the White House to speak with the President about how his state could work with the Federal government in combating the COVID-19 crisis. Polis says that his state, which is facing a $3B budget deficit, badly needs funding that could be allocated in the Congress' next support bill. Aired on 5/15/2020.
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CO Gov.: I Told Trump About People's 'Fear And Pain' | Hallie Jackson | MSNBC
Colorado Governor Jared Polis (D) joins Ayman Mohyeldin after he traveled to the White House to speak with the President about how his state could work with the Federal government in combating the COVID-19 crisis. Polis says that his state, which is facing a $3B budget deficit, badly needs funding that could be allocated in the Congress' next support bill. Aired on 5/15/2020.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Natural selection
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately far too many innocent people will be harmed and die. Even if you don't die, this bug gives most older adults one Helluva shit kicking and the possibility of being fucked for life. Staying as safe as we can until a vaccine is developed is the best way, I believe treatment options will become available to dramatically lower the mortality rate in developed countries over the summer, an added incentive to stay safe. These treatments include supportive therapies like blood thinners and anti inflammatories, antiviral treatments like plasma transfusion and drugs. It won't be a cure, but it will ease the suffering and death until we get to one, social distancing, testing, case isolation and contact tracing are part of the mix too, as are bans on mass events and other measures like mask wearing in public..
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
This should be a dire warning to those eager to reopen without adequate testing and other public health measures. Herd immunity would be painful in deed.
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www.vox.com
The results of a Spanish study on Covid-19 immunity have a scary takeaway
One of the worst coronavirus outbreaks in the world isn’t anything close to a worst-case scenario.
Spain has had one of the worst Covid-19 outbreaks in the world, which makes a recently completed antibody-testing study of the Spanish population so significant — and so scary.
Preliminary results from a well-designed survey of antibody presence among Spaniards suggest that even as the Spanish outbreak exploded and then was brought under control, only 5 percent of the country’s population has been infected with the coronavirus so far. This means that the vast majority of the Spanish population remains susceptible to infection if the lifting of restrictions there leads to a new spike in cases.
The message to the rest of the world is that as awful as the pandemic has been in Spain — where more than 27,000 people have died, a far higher per-capita death rate than in the US or even Italy — it’s not even close to an upper limit on how bad things can get.
more...
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The results of a Spanish study on Covid-19 immunity have a scary takeaway
One of the worst coronavirus outbreaks in the world isn’t anything close to a worst-case scenario.
The results of a Spanish study on Covid-19 immunity have a scary takeaway
One of the worst coronavirus outbreaks in the world isn’t anything close to a worst-case scenario.
Spain has had one of the worst Covid-19 outbreaks in the world, which makes a recently completed antibody-testing study of the Spanish population so significant — and so scary.
Preliminary results from a well-designed survey of antibody presence among Spaniards suggest that even as the Spanish outbreak exploded and then was brought under control, only 5 percent of the country’s population has been infected with the coronavirus so far. This means that the vast majority of the Spanish population remains susceptible to infection if the lifting of restrictions there leads to a new spike in cases.
The message to the rest of the world is that as awful as the pandemic has been in Spain — where more than 27,000 people have died, a far higher per-capita death rate than in the US or even Italy — it’s not even close to an upper limit on how bad things can get.
more...
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I'm not even sure that is a Buddha quote, since there are lots of fake ones, especially used with memes. I think the reference is to liberation which in religious Buddhism can be experienced in this life, with assiduous training, as well as being the end goal for a Buddhist practice in a religious context. Nirvana (sanskrit) means to snuff out of existence, to terminate the endless cycle of rebirth, death and samsaric wandering too painful to imagine. Buddhism along with Hinduism and jainism is a vedic religion and this world view of existence was prevalent among them.
The advice in the meme is solid however, if you meditate regularly as a novice, your conscience will bother you, practice is exercise and it grows out your brain in the prefrontal cortex. It is also a process of sensitisation and makes you more aware of the nuances of consciousness itself, we become more aware of our bodies and the "feelings" that drive emotion and rational thought that occur there first, regular practice helps us to become conscious of these things as they arise and thus gain insight. Deep concentration requires a clean conscience and living, but there are many ways up the mountain besides concentrative absorption and jhana states.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Now if Bloomberg wanted to spend a few bucks he could print up 50 or 100 million of those lawn signs and pass them out across the country. Think many folks would put a sign like that on their front lawn? Some would even wait for Trumpers to take it down with a baseball bat or a shotgun!
Trumper bait, along with sticking Clorox labels on Trump lawn signs!
I'd bet taking a sign like that down from @UncleBuck s lawn would be a challenge!
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
This should be a dire warning to those eager to reopen without adequate testing and other public health measures. Herd immunity would be painful in deed.
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The results of a Spanish study on Covid-19 immunity have a scary takeaway
One of the worst coronavirus outbreaks in the world isn’t anything close to a worst-case scenario.
The results of a Spanish study on Covid-19 immunity have a scary takeaway
One of the worst coronavirus outbreaks in the world isn’t anything close to a worst-case scenario.
Spain has had one of the worst Covid-19 outbreaks in the world, which makes a recently completed antibody-testing study of the Spanish population so significant — and so scary.
Preliminary results from a well-designed survey of antibody presence among Spaniards suggest that even as the Spanish outbreak exploded and then was brought under control, only 5 percent of the country’s population has been infected with the coronavirus so far. This means that the vast majority of the Spanish population remains susceptible to infection if the lifting of restrictions there leads to a new spike in cases.
The message to the rest of the world is that as awful as the pandemic has been in Spain — where more than 27,000 people have died, a far higher per-capita death rate than in the US or even Italy — it’s not even close to an upper limit on how bad things can get.
more...
Apparently, Spain has 5% exposed in the population compared to Sweden with about 25% now exposed.
Earlier this year, it was horrendous in Spain, seemingly less so in Sweden, yet the picture that is emerging shows disturbing trends for our friends in the Scandanavia. People there are now dying at double the rate Spain is currently experiencing with no signs of decline in rates.
This has become one massive horrible experiment. A big hypothesis test is coming. The one that says coronavirus may be seasonal and the next big wave will come beginning in late August with the peak in fall and winter.
As your article indicates, populations that locked down might see an even worse wave of infections and deaths come fall. Still, though, the Sweden experiment doesn't look like a great alternative.
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DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I believe it is an unethical " experiment" to go against the consensus of the field on such a dire matter, it is only because of the particular political arrangement that insulates public health officials that allowed it to persist. Also I believe that the 25% number was for Stockholm the less dense areas of the country are a fraction of that, though testing levels are low. Population density appears to be a major factor in the rate of contagion. I wonder if they have done any quality sentinel serological testing, like Spain? Why not? Aren't they interested in the "experiment" and want to monitor it closely? They are a rich country.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
America's experience might be dire in the next couple of months, particularly in the red states, it takes a month for the deaths to stack up. Donald might send them a ton of resources and ventilators, but what of the tens of thousands of medical personal that will be required? The governors of these states will have no choice but to pull back as the local hospitals are overwhelmed and the populace starts to panic along with the politicians. This is Donald's home turf for the most part, so it should light a fire under somebody, the congressional delegations from these states will be freaking bigly. How bad it gets depends on how much they open, how much they test and how quickly the react to those test results. All this shit should be happening in the middle of oversight hearings with a ton of scientist whistleblowers, a demand for documents, intense public interest & involvement (by becoming ill and dying)! The senior citizens will be taking a particular interest in the proceedings and even more of them will walk away from Trump, the republicans and even fox news, than have already. They will be sitting home under lock down, missing their kids and grandkids too, so watching the news is a popular pastime and they are interested in health issues that could kill them.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Like it or not, Europe is conducting uncontrolled experiments. Sweden's State Epidemiologist, Tegnell, called the shots and stands by his country's actions while other countries are taking very different measures by locking down. Thus far, Sweden seems to have gotten much of the pain without any gain. I'd say the experiment going on in Europe shows that lockdowns work. However, we are only in the middle of this experiment. Time will tell. Stay tuned.
I don't know if you are citing a news story or just another of your beliefs. I cited a Bloomberg article posted on May 13 that said:
Tegnell argues that the scales will tip: the better the job countries did suppressing the first wave of infection, the greater their risk of a second wave. He estimates that roughly 25% of Swedes have been exposed.
I'm not making anything up, I'm just reading and that's what the article said. It's consistent with other news stories. Believe what you want, it's clear to me that nothing I say affects you.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
The republicans are underwater by 20% with seniors 65 and over in Wisconsin, how much more do you think it will drop with the republican fiasco there now? Wisconsin is headed for a disaster from what I've seen in pictures and videos and about a month from now that disaster should arrive.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I posted an article that went into it in some detail, by Swedes who disagree! Malmo was lower and the smaller towns, I'll have a look for it. I'm beginning to suspect the data coming out of Sweden, this guy has too much at stake and too much control, the low rate of testing considering what they are doing is kind of telling. No testing = I don't want to know in a rich country. You would think they would be doing a lot of virus and serological testing, if they really wanted to protect the population with their "novel" approach.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Given their needless high death rates, if I lived there, I'd be furious over Sweden's government's decisions on this matter. That said, their decisions could be validated by future developments but right now it seems they lost their bet on which way to go with locking down. Because -- their experience at this time shows lockdowns work.
The article I responded to was about Spain, not Sweden. You've been on ignore for some time with me, so maybe I missed the other one. What I cited was a quotation from Sweden's expert on the subject dated May 13. 3 1/2 weeks ago, "Tegnell said sampling and modeling data indicated that 20% of Stockholm’s population is already immune to the virus, and that “in a few weeks’ time we might reach herd immunity" . Is that what you are citing?
BTW, these herd immunity types keep projecting "we'll be at herd immunity in a few weeks" every few weeks. They say it with such conviction but nobody really knows when herd immunity will ever be established. Remember AC's 'back of the envelope' calculations that said we'd be well past that date by now? We are still waiting.
This is a dynamic story. New data arrives each day, so we have to be clear when somebody said something. Just saying, because Tegnell said one thing a month ago doesn't mean the story can't change later. We simply don't know enough yet.