Public Water & Chlorine Question...

[dknob]

You guys ever wonder about drinking this water when its toxic to plants and fish? The chlorine kills beneficial bacteria in your stomach and intestines. But thats the least of your worries, if they add Sodium fluoride in your area.

Not organic.

 

[Seamaiden]

I bet you'll see more deficiencies if you use distilled water.

The other two aquarists who've posted, yippee! Glad to see more fish geeks here.

To the best of my knowledge, sodium thiosulfate removes free chlorine, but not chloramines. Chloramines are a byproduct of free chlorine and ammonia, and need to be oxidized from the water. A high concentrate (about 33%) hydrogen peroxide is what is normally used to remove chloramines in swimming pools.

Sodium thiosulfate alone will remove the chlorine, but leave behind the ammonia. I do not know how harmful ammonia is to plants, but I wouldn't think it's good for them. Sodium thiosulfate solutions meant for the aquarium industry may have an additive to remove the ammonia as well, but I'm really not familiar with any of those type products.

I think the easiest thing to do would be let the water sit out for a couple days before using it for your plants. It's free, and you don't have to add any chemicals that way. If you buy a cheap pool test kit you can check it yourself. Just get a basic OTO test kit, and you'll be able to test for chlorine/chloramines as well as check the pH of your water. It will probably only cost $5-$7 and you'll know your plants are getting good water.

Hi, Howard. My understanding of the chemistry is also that sodium thiosulfate breaks the chlorine/ammonia bond, thus allowing chlorine removal, but does not deal with ammonia. However, many commercial fertilizers derive their nitrogen directly from "ammoniacal sources" (i.e. animal urine and the like). I doubt that the remaining ammonia would be of much concern for terrestrial plants, because it seems to add little measurable ammonia in aquatic systems, in my experience (in mine, none measurable at all, measuring down to thousandths). Sodium thiosulfate actually has many applications, including some medical if I recollect, and.. photography. Try The Chemistry Store for dry, in pounds. Unless you're a public aquarium or the like it'll last you a lifetime.

But, IF you are concerned with remaining ammonia, you can filter through zeolite (best with freshwater only, as sea water binds up bonding sites on the zeolite), and we use this at times, including in shipping fish, to help control ammonia for any that are going to be in transit for more than 24 hours. The stuff works!

 

[HowardWCampbell]

Seamaiden,
What you say makes a lot of sense. I tend to think of water chemistry as it applies to swimming pools, but I think aquarium knowledge translates more directly than pool knowledge in this case. It's good to know that a little ammonia isn't a problem, I'll be picking up some s. thiosulfate soon.

Should I not use distilled water at all? I just bought a gallon because it's taking too long for the chlorine to evaporate out of the tap water. I was going to mix up an organic tea with it, but if you don't think I should, I won't. Thanks for the input.

BTW, +rep for your sig. I love it.

 

[Seamaiden]

Thank you.

With fish you don't want to use distilled water because it's incomplete, fish don't "only" need water, they need a whole bunch of the other stuff that's dissolved in it. I just figure that with aquariums and growing we're kind of trying to do the same thing, i.e. mimic natural conditions well enough that an organism will thrive and do something for us. I do also know, based on the fish-ee stuff, that the more closed a system the more difficulties you're going to have keeping it balanced.

That being said, I don't think a few waterings with distilled water would be all that bad. Personally, I'd mix it with the tap water, to find a happy right place.

 

[Busmike]

SeaMaiden:

I used a product called "Ammocarb" in my rearing tanks. Never researched it, But I was told by the people I sold to that it was simply charcoal, made from Willow, and that it took ammonia AND chloramine out of the water. Looks like carbon, but is grey in color. For me, it was advantagous to have as many young per tank as could live and grow, My tanks had no filtration, just 2 airstones and a nylon sack of ammocarb.

I bred Angelfish of MANY varieties and I bashfully admit that I know everything there is to know about raising and breeding them

It's a shame I wasn't growing then... The fish tank water would be GREAT for growing plants!


.

 

[Seamaiden]

Yes, aquarium water (from freshies) rawx. AmmoCarb can be used, for fresh, and I know that there are some newer products that are supposed to remove ammonia even from saltwater. Those products are (to me) recent additions to the repertoire, didn't exist when I was working the trade. But that NH3 is more a problem for fish than I think it is for terrestrial plants, though I can't say declaratively that this is true.

How do you feel about discus, Mike?

 

[Busmike]

Yes, aquarium water (from freshies) rawx. AmmoCarb can be used, for fresh, and I know that there are some newer products that are supposed to remove ammonia even from saltwater. Those products are (to me) recent additions to the repertoire, didn't exist when I was working the trade. But that NH3 is more a problem for fish than I think it is for terrestrial plants, though I can't say declaratively that this is true.

How do you feel about discus, Mike?

I tried a tankful of discus once, Never got a pair out of 10 in a 30 tall. That happened just as I was getting out of breeding and, while I still have all of the equipment, I just haven't been motivated to set up a fish room.

As I mentioned. I raised freshwater angelfish. While I know them inside and out, I really don't know much about other species, and I have no experience with Salt. I did 25 % changes twice a day with an automated system, and used just airstones and sacks of AmmoCarb in the tanks. That system worked fine for almost 10 years and I never experimented with new stuff.


.

 

[bicycle racer]

the grey stuff in ammocarb is zeolite(mixed with carbon) a natural ammonia remover used in aquariums cat litter etc.. useless in saltwater though. ive not used it on chloramine it should work in large amounts at long contact times any carbon will remove chloramine but much more is needed than with chlorine. i highly suggest bio-chem zorb(aquarium pharmaceuticals) or dick boyds chemi-pure best water filtration small particle carbon on the market and ive used them all when i worked at a aquarium store for a number of years. these products also contain ion exchange resins for added filtration and effectiveness. great for any application in water. there is much chloramine in los angeles's water but using these products ive had no problems with that.

 

[Seamaiden]

I tried a tankful of discus once, Never got a pair out of 10 in a 30 tall. That happened just as I was getting out of breeding and, while I still have all of the equipment, I just haven't been motivated to set up a fish room.

As I mentioned. I raised freshwater angelfish. While I know them inside and out, I really don't know much about other species, and I have no experience with Salt. I did 25 % changes twice a day with an automated system, and used just airstones and sacks of AmmoCarb in the tanks. That system worked fine for almost 10 years and I never experimented with new stuff.


.

Wanna know what the biggest lesson I had to learn with regard to fishkeeping was? If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT!

My husband and I (we met on a reefkeeping site several years ago) have discussed setting up a discus tank, as it's the only set-up I haven't done for myself. Problem IS, I know we'd argue like hell. He's got his ways, I've got mine, and we have firm ideas about what we'd want from a discus set-up.

For me, I want a biotope. Give me cardinals and other little tetras and cats, etcetera, that'll act like dither fish and "complete" the biotope. Plant it thickly, just as they're found in nature, and so on. Dave? He wants a species tank. JUST discus. Ok, they're pretty, but all by themselves? If we're gonna do that I'd just as soon set-up a tank of goldies, lots easier. Thusly, I don't think I'll ever have my own aquarium, let alone a fishroom, again.

 

[Busmike]

I was in it for the money. I had 90 20 gallon longs and all that was in each tank was water, AmmoCarb, a piece of slate,airstones and fish. I learned early on that for breeding salable young, you need to keep the water as clean as possible, no bacterial filters for me!

I anways wanted to set up a reef tank. I think they're beautiful. But even with everything automated, I was still spending 4 hours a day in the fish room. Couldn't justify setting up a 100 gal salt tank ALSO. Too much work
What's tyhe url of your hubby's reef forum? Might motivate me to give it a shot.

Bicycle racer,

Thanks for that info. I bought Ammocarb in 25 Lb boxes, and it was ALL grey. I asked the owner of one of the wholsalers I used to buy from and sellto what is was and he told me it was just charcoal, but all made from Willow trees.

Whatever it was, it worked!

Ya know... I think we've kinda hijacked this thread...
Sorry Howard.

 

[john do]

aquasense filtration live in so cal works fine for me

 

[bicycle racer]

i feel that discus and wild scalare angels are more of a pain than salt water fish only systems. discus are pretty but saltwater fish are so beautiful particularly saltwater angels(blue face.a) (emperror.a) etc.. i also love the personalitys of puffers groupers and triggers there like water dogs at feeding time. i reccomend wet/dry filtration with p.skimming some live rock live sand and carbon with big water changes 2 times monthly nitrate is not a huge concern in fish only systems if kept under 20 or 40ppm you can use tap water for fish only systems reefs need r.o. thats nitrate free. i think reef tanks are very easy to maintain when set up properly use very much live rock alot of live sand much flow and heavy carbon and protein skimming with 2 monthly large water changes. keep it simple and its a breeze i maintained a large salt section for years with little problems. people tend to complicate sytems when they dont have to

 

[Seamaiden]

Bicycle, you ever been dinged by a puffer or trigger? My FAVORITES, for hardiness, color, intelligence and activity, are African lake cichlids.

Reef tanks are easy IF people have the knowledge. It's the knowledge that's the tough part, in my experience.

Curious, you ever get to go to 104th when you were working the trade?

 

[ISmokePotBecauseItsCool]

I use a chemical to remove chlorine, chloramines, ammonia, and heavy metals. Its call Stress Coat, by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc, I use it to top off my aquarium, and then take water from my aquarium to water my plants.
I have used it just straight into tap water and into my plants and have had no problems so far, and my tap water really sucks.
And I know its effective for removing chlorine/chloramine/ammonia as even small ammounts of this chemical being left behind would certainly kill off my fish

 

[bigdog]

ive used the stuf you can buy at the pet store that takes Sodium Hypochlorite or bleach/clorine out of water. but if your water company it puting an acid in your water that is treeted with clorine you should tell them not to beacuse it will produse clorine gass like in musterd gass bombs. it will not only kill plants it can kill humans to.

 

[bicycle racer]

oh yeah ive had blood drawn by many creatures puffers triggers moray eels stung by various venomous catfish 4 times by volitan lionfish(painfull). ive even had a 18 inch cichalasoma managuense (jaguar cichlid) attack me very mean and they do have teeth at that size. also urchins corals bristle worms etc etc.... almost anything venomous that doesnt kill you oh yeah and electric cats have lit me up a bit to im sure there were more instances but i forget. morays do the most damage and there teeth break off in you covered in bacteria it sucks and the lionfish hurts the most. luckily i never got bit by the blue ring octopuses we kept or i would be dead lol.

 

[bicycle racer]

what is the 104th im not familiar with that is it a wholesaler. if so ive been to the wholesalers near lax airport there are a few down there if your into this hobby try to go if you can huge costco like fish stores. everything you can possibly imagine from the pacific is there i think the most expensive fish we ever had was a conspiculum angel fish $1000 dollars was our cost so it sold for like $2000 those and japanese dragon morays very cool. then sometimes you would see clarion angels those were worth thousands more than the conspic angel they only come from one small island there illegal but the wholsalers always have illegal livestock. sumner redstone (he ownes viacom) use to buy all those expensive fish from us all the time quite a prick though. sadly i have no aquariums up at this time of my own.

 

[Seamaiden]

You got nailed by a managuense? LMAO! Those are gorgeous fish, but.. hee! I've never been nailed by anything electric (my shop used to have a 6' electric eel, and the fun trick was to get the newbies to feed it, we'd tell 'em it had to be hand-fed) except when lights fell into a tank, a heater broke, all that kind of stuff. Got to liking it in a really weird way, then I got nailed by warehouse voltage that made me momentarily blind. HOO WHEE did I go on a tear after that! Chewed out one of the Petschmo veeps. Just marched my ass upstairs and went OFF.

Yeah, 104th is the wholesalers' area. Sea Dwelling Creatures, Walt Smith (that dude brings so much trouble and rumor with him, MAN!), Quality Marine, all those places. There are others nearby, too. If you're familiar with the name Bob Fenner, that's a friend of mine, worked with him at Petschmo after moving to San Diego many years ago. Old timer I worked for before him is long gone out of the business, but he was one of the folks who helped get Dolphin Int'l going.

What many folks don't realize is that L.A. is the aquatic/exotic importation capitol of the country. Sure, Miami, San Fran, NOLA, and Seattle can get in shipments, but most of what's bred or captured for the hobby is coming from Oceania, Asia, South America. (With some of the posts on a reefing board I see, I think more marine life is coming out of Africa than when I was working trade, but to me this is a little new, used to only be rift lake cichlids and cats most of the time.)

Been nailed by plenty, fortunately not coral cats (Bob got stung by a coral cat once, I freaked because I believed what I'd seen on tv ), have been stuck by a foxface. That definitely rivals Scorpaenidae for pain. Shop I was at also had a 1,500 display tank, we had to snorkel to clean it. A trigger, a dogface puffer, zebra moray who LOVED his scritches, all had to be respected. But do you wanna know who the biggest fucking prick in that tank was? An Emperor snapper. GAD he was a sonofabitch!

Fish geeks, unite. (holds up a wet fist)

 

[ISmokePotBecauseItsCool]

I got stung by a lionfish before, that was a good time
Had my 1' Irridescent Shark jump out of my tank, and in the process of trying to put him back I ended up with one of his fin spines buried pretty deep in my wrist. Thats was fun too
My Chameleon tries to bite me any time I go near him, but it doesnt hurt too bad, usually doesnt even break skin. My Red Ear Slider Turtles are a different story though, ive lost chunks of my hands to those guys. I used to have a Mali Uromastyx that bit me once also, and I lost a chunk of my hand the size of a quarter. Those guys have some strong-ass jaws

 

[Seamaiden]

Neat lizard! I've never handled one of those. So, I betcha there are some of us who have been into different exotics along with fish, yeah?

I'm a member of the hinged fang club.