A Libertarian speaks out on Obama and the possibilities ....

ViRedd

New Member
Wednesday, November 5, 2008
Libertarian Possibilities under Obama
by Jacob G. Hornberger


Not surprisingly, conservatives are depressed and despondent over the election of Barack Obama to the presidency. But as I wrote yesterday, the Republicans deserved to lose. For the last 7 years, they have plunged our country into darkness, oppression, injustice, and tyranny, seizing on the 9/11 attacks to centralize federal power, suspend the civil liberties of the American people, and embark on one of the most shocking Big Spending sprees in history.

The election-eve argument that conservatives employed to get people to vote for McCain reflected how corrupted they have become with the unrestrained power they have wielded for the past 7 years. Their argument involved no apologies and no repentance for the damage and destruction they have brought to our nation or to the world. It instead boiled down to this: They said people should vote for McCain because he would not be as big a Big Spender as Obama. What better evidence of the moral bankruptcy of the conservative movement than that?

It’s true that as a liberal, Obama is likely to continue President Bush’s out-of-control federal spending habit. But there is no doubt that McCain would have done the same. In fact, the only time that conservatives rail against Big Spending is when they’re not the ones doing the spending. I’ll bet that with Obama’s election, conservatives begin railing against Big Spending almost immediately, with the promise to rein it in if they’re ever returned to power.

In other words, when it comes to domestic welfare-state policies, Americans were going to get badly squeezed whether Obama or McCain was elected.

If McCain had been elected, there is no doubt that we would also have had a continuation of Bush’s warfare-state policies: the war on terrorism, military attacks and wars of aggression on other countries, torture and sex abuse of detainees, the Patriot Act, the enemy-combatant doctrine, signing statements, denial of due process, Guantanamo, military tribunals, indefinite incarceration, kidnapping and rendition, warrantless searches and seizures, the continued occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, and so forth.

While it’s possible that Obama will continue these warfare-state policies as well, that is not as certain as it would have been under McCain. As a liberal, a lawyer, and a former law professor, Obama has taken a vocal stand against some of these “dark side” policies. For example, he has spoken out against arbitrary arrests, in favor of habeas corpus, against the invasion of Iraq, against torture, and in favor of closing the Pentagon’s prison at Guantanamo Bay.

That’s not to say that Obama is a non-interventionist or even a consistent defender of civil liberties. For example, he ended up voting for telecom immunity (after opposing it), he has praised the “success” of “the surge” in Iraq, and he has promised to beef up U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
But with Obama’s election, libertarians will at least have a chance to make some significant headway toward restoring civil liberties and the procedural protections of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to our land, along with moving our country in a more positive direction with respect to foreign policy. That possibility would not have existed under a McCain administration.

There is another area in which we libertarians should redouble our efforts under an Obama administration — the war on drugs. As a liberal, a lawyer, and a law professor, Obama must be aware of the devastating effects of this failed federal policy, especially on people in the black community.

While ridding our nation of the drug-war scourge will be difficult, there is at least a chance of achieving that goal in the next four years. That possibility would have been nonexistent under a McCain administration.
If we were able to get rid of the drug war and the war on terrorism, bring all the troops home, and restore civil liberties and the Bill of Rights to our land, it’s true that we would still be saddled with the welfare state, to which both conservatives and liberals remain committed. But once our fellow Americans saw how much better they were without the oppressive and tyrannical warfare-state policies, they would undoubtedly be more receptive to considering libertarian arguments for ridding our nation of the welfare-state scourge and for restoring economic liberty to our land.

Jacob Hornberger is founder and president of The Future of Freedom Foundation.
 

medicineman

New Member
Sounds like he isn't that upset with an Obama presidency. In fact he favors it over a McCain presidency. Why didn't you listen and side with him. Seems like you actually voted against the libertarian general mantra by voting McCain/Palin. IE in your mind they were both bad, but actually McCain was worse, just like I premised.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Sounds like he isn't that upset with an Obama presidency. In fact he favors it over a McCain presidency. Why didn't you listen and side with him. Seems like you actually voted against the libertarian general mantra by voting McCain/Palin. IE in your mind they were both bad, but actually McCain was worse, just like I premised.
Yes, I came very close to putting my mark next to the Libertarian candidate, Bob Barr. I would have too, if not for Sarah Palin. Knock her all you want, Med ... but she will be back and represent a new, much more conservative, Republican majority in the future. This is why the Left fears her. This is why the MSM is quoting unnamed sources to disparage her.


If it weren't for Sarah Palin, McCain's candidacy would have been toast months ago.


Here's my prediction: The Alaskan Senator (his name escapes me at the moment) elect has been convicted on seven felony charges and will be placed in prison. He will have to resign his senate seat. In that event, Governor Palin will have to select his replacement. Sarah Palin will nominate herself to the senate seat and come back to Washington to serve four of the six years in the in the U.S. Senate, then run for president or again as the VP candidate

Take that one to the bank. :blsmoke:

Vi
 

NorthwestBuds

Well-Known Member
Yes, I came very close to putting my mark next to the Libertarian candidate, Bob Barr. I would have too, if not for Sarah Palin. Knock her all you want, Med ... but she will be back and represent a new, much more conservative, Republican majority in the future. This is why the Left fears her. This is why the MSM is quoting unnamed sources to disparage her.


If it weren't for Sarah Palin, McCain's candidacy would have been toast months ago.


Here's my prediction: The Alaskan Senator (his name escapes me at the moment) elect has been convicted on seven felony charges and will be placed in prison. He will have to resign his senate seat. In that event, Governor Palin will have to select his replacement. Sarah Palin will nominate herself to the senate seat and come back to Washington to serve four of the six years in the in the U.S. Senate, then run for president or again as the VP candidate

Take that one to the bank. :blsmoke:

Vi
Vi,

That is so last week. Where have you been? Last night on TV she said she WILL NOT do that.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
I almost held my nose and voted for Senator McCain. Governor Palin was a breath of fresh air.

It was the bailout that finally made up my mind. It reminded me of why I left the party in the first place.
 

ViRedd

New Member
I almost held my nose and voted for Senator McCain. Governor Palin was a breath of fresh air.

It was the bailout that finally made up my mind. It reminded me of why I left the party in the first place.
I hear you, Johnny. Honest, I had my pen on Bob Barr for the same reason you did ... the bailout. But, in the long run, Palin won out. Sorry. :-(

If she runs again, with a true conservative like Bobby Jindal, I'll vote for her again.

Vi
 

ViRedd

New Member
Vi,

That is so last week. Where have you been? Last night on TV she said she WILL NOT do that.
She may have said that, but realize how much pressure she's under to do it. Look, she is the most popular conservative to come down the pike since Ronald Reagan. Do you honestly think the Republican Party wants her to continue to man that northern outpost known as Alaska while Rome is burning? :lol:

Vi
 

NorthwestBuds

Well-Known Member
She may have said that, but realize how much pressure she's under to do it. Look, she is the most popular conservative to come down the pike since Ronald Reagan. Do you honestly think the Republican Party wants her to continue to man that northern outpost known as Alaska while Rome is burning? :lol:

Vi
I think Reagan was a MUCH more skillful liar than Palin is.
 

ViRedd

New Member
I walked right into the booth and wrote in Ron Paul without hesitation. No regrets.
A friend of mine did exactly the same thing. I would have done it myself if Palin wasn't running. Well, it would have been between Ron Paul and the Libertarian Party. Pretty much the same protest vote, IMO. Much better that than Obama for sure.

Vi
 

Dfunk

Well-Known Member
Obama, Biden, McCain, & Palin are just puppets people...you guys need to wake up. Not one of them is going to do what YOU want, but I assure you Obama is here to change some things although those things may not be for the better of our nation.....think more in a WORLD view.
 

puffdamagikdragon

Well-Known Member
She may have said that, but realize how much pressure she's under to do it. Look, she is the most popular conservative to come down the pike since Ronald Reagan. Do you honestly think the Republican Party wants her to continue to man that northern outpost known as Alaska while Rome is burning? :lol:

Vi
It was the republican party that set the fire in the first place.....:rolleyes:
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
It was the republican party that set the fire in the first place.....:rolleyes:
Yeah those pesky Republican have been running amok since 2006. The Democrats have run Congress since then, but those fucking Republicans keep screwing things up.

George Bush has will go down in history as the most diabolical lame duck in history creating all that havoc and the Democratic majority in both houses has been POWERLESS to stop him. All the bad shit that has happened since 2006 is Dubya's doing.

LOL!
 

medicineman

New Member
Thump thump thump, thump thump thump, keep those Bibles thumping. It's a fact we are going to need Divine intervention if Palin were to be elected to POTUS.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Thump thump thump, thump thump thump, keep those Bibles thumping. It's a fact we are going to need Divine intervention if Palin were to be elected to POTUS.
Come to the party, Med. Palin wasn't running for the position of president, nor was she elected. :lol:

If anything, its all of you left-wing-nutz who should be praying at the moment. You should be praying for your president elect. He's going to need it.

Vi
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Thump thump thump, thump thump thump, keep those Bibles thumping. It's a fact we are going to need Divine intervention if Palin were to be elected to POTUS.
Let's hope Jeremiah Wright will keep his distance. Louis Farrakhan, too.

You know the election is over, right?

You are also aware SP was not running for President, right?
 

chuckbane

New Member
Obama, Biden, McCain, & Palin are just puppets people...you guys need to wake up. Not one of them is going to do what YOU want, but I assure you Obama is here to change some things although those things may not be for the better of our nation.....think more in a WORLD view.
bingo

glad to know i'm not the only one seeing it
 
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