Is the Keystone cancelation a good thing?

[printer]

That would be: "10% IF we have some technical break-throughs".

How Geothermal Energy Works

Learn how heat from the Earth is converted into electricity in this comprehensive overview, including a discussion of the geothermal resource, its environmental and societal impacts, and its potential for future expansion.

www.ucsusa.org

An MIT study estimated that the United States has the potential to develop 44,000 MWs of geothermal capacity by 2050 by coproducing geothermal electricity at oil and gas fields—primarily in the Southeast and southern Plains states. The study projected that such advanced geothermal systems could supply 10 percent of U.S. baseload electricity by 2050, given R&D and deployment over the next 10 years

Hydro-power has too large of a footprint on the environment of sensitive areas. I'm no fan of it for that reason. Also, I don't want that pipeline for the same reason. If rail is unsafe then make it safer. I oppose nuclear energy too. To me, oil and all fossil fuels are just stop gap energy sources until we get our act together on a combination of sources, that would include solar, wind, tidal, ocean waves, geothermal. . Energy supply is only one part of the solution. Carbon neutral society means changing how we live, work and play. Also changes in how we deliver and manage energy delivery. I'd rather we invest in that than the effing pipeline.

The following may be dated but I think it does a pretty good job of breaking down the potential for different energy solutions:

Sustainable Energy — without the hot air David JC MacKay

http://www.withouthotair.com/cft.pdf

I want fusion energy. Not holding my breath for it though. I doubt that abandonded oil wells would get 10% of our energy mix. Maybe the US, I was thinking the world. With how much energy we use now and where it seems to be going I think every 'green' source will have to be used, hydro and all. We are that carbon powered. Oh yeah, I spent the last ten years moving around air and water to heat and cool 3 million square feet of building space.

 

[printer]

Yes everything has a cost your right? So keep digging up the land and injecting chemicals into the ground because everything has a cost? I just think that a bigger effort could be made to reduce and eventually end the need for oil, I know, it’ll probably never happen but I can hope . A start would, as I’ve said before, make it available but at its true cost and that includes remediation costs and no subsidies and tax breaks. Offer those to carbon neutral sources. But I digress, this is about a pipeline and sadly I doubt eliminating that will have any effect on the issue at hand and that is global warming.

And you are going to convince all the tailgaters at the Super Bowl to sit at home and watch the game (these big events really bother me)?

 

[mysunnyboy]

I say no pipeline.

 

[Sir Napsalot]

The Scandinavian countries have done some really good work on wood pellet stoves. They have forced air burn chambers to increase efficiency. There is a pellet mill in the Florida Panhandle, and if Port Panama City had not been closed after Micheal, that is were I could have sold my broken pine trees, as they use scrap wood to make the pellets.

I've actually been thinking of changing it out for a pellet stove for insurance reasons

Some insurers in the past have balked at purported clearance issues with my now illegal to install but grandfathered-in non-certified woodstove which was made locally and is awesome

 

[Kdoggy]

Yup thats it keystone pipeline 2 months ago i drove past it thinking wtf is everybody up in arms about lol.

 

[Kdoggy]

View attachment 4806286
Yup thats it keystone pipeline 2 months ago i drove past it thinking wtf is everybody up in arms about lol.

Mind u i said dam there using pallets to hold it up seems a little shotty.

 

[Khyber420]

Canada; build your own fucking refineries. Oil is a has-been, and this is just a grab for temporary profit. Electric cars will dominate before I die. Just wait for China and India to mass produce them, and they will.

Yeah stop fracking then. This is just the typical American flip flop depending on which way the wind is blowing for the current administration. Iran, Paris, Keystone, Nafta etc. The lesson for the world is, if you're doing business with the US make sure the deals done in less than 4 years. Nothing new though. As for the environment cop out is BS, its just an easy win for the new admin.

Breaking an agreement with Canada, is of little consequence, keep the shale extraction going until its done and pump the domestic supply. Little difference in terms of net emissions and pollution, but it plays wells with naive millennial and environmentalists, they probably believe something significant was achieved.

Regardless, this was always going to happen.

 

[Budley Doright]

I've actually been thinking of changing it out for a pellet stove for insurance reasons

Some insurers in the past have balked at purported clearance issues with my now illegal to install but grandfathered-in non-certified woodstove which was made locally and is awesome

Unless certified the clearance to combustibles is crazy, they basically have to sit in the middle of the room . I’m on my second pellet stove and love it but pellets are getting crazy expensive compared to propane right now . I just put a wifi stat on the pellet stove, how cool is that lol.

 

[Budley Doright]

Canada; build your own fucking refineries. Oil is a has-been, and this is just a grab for temporary profit. Electric cars will dominate before I die. Just wait for China and India to mass produce them, and they will.

Yes you would think with all the issues with transportation the ideal of a refinery would be a no brainer. Maybe Alberta should have built one instead of no sales tax. Just sayin

 

[Budley Doright]

I want fusion energy. Not holding my breath for it though. I doubt that abandonded oil wells would get 10% of our energy mix. Maybe the US, I was thinking the world. With how much energy we use now and where it seems to be going I think every 'green' source will have to be used, hydro and all. We are that carbon powered. Oh yeah, I spent the last ten years moving around air and water to heat and cool 3 million square feet of building space.

Stationary Engineer?

 

[hanimmal]

Yeah stop fracking then. This is just the typical American flip flop depending on which way the wind is blowing for the current administration. Iran, Paris, Keystone, Nafta etc. The lesson for the world is, if you're doing business with the US make sure the deals done in less than 4 years. Nothing new though. As for the environment cop out is BS, its just an easy win for the new admin.

Breaking an agreement with Canada, is of little consequence, keep the shale extraction going until its done and pump the domestic supply. Little difference in terms of net emissions and pollution, but it plays wells with naive millennial and environmentalists, they probably believe something significant was achieved.

Regardless, this was always going to happen.

You missed the real lesson that the world should have learned.

If you want to do business with the largest economy on the planet, do the work to get the senate/house to sign it into law so that a troll POTUS is not able to wipe a good start away.

 

[Offmymeds]

America must shift resources & the pipeline already leaked 400,000 gallons of oil in ND. China saw the need & is taking bold action for renewables. A part of our problem are companies such as Koch Ind. spending huge sums to provide misinformation, to control a narrative in order to keep their profits as high as possible & damn the environmental consequences. E.g., the Trump admin gave Koch Ind. permission to dump waste directly into St. John's River here in FL.

I trust the EPA far more than the likes of Koch.

 

[topcat]

Electric will most definitely not dominate before you die, unless you live another hundred or more years. Even if all cars are electric, they’ve already used more oil than a gas car would in its lifetime. The electric car also uses what to charge it, again? Oh, yeah electricity from either coal, oil, or nuclear powered generators. Green technology is a farce, it all uses fossil fuel to make and run it all. It’s propaganda for the uninformed.

Pay attention to the auto industry.

 

[topcat]

Yeah stop fracking then. This is just the typical American flip flop depending on which way the wind is blowing for the current administration. Iran, Paris, Keystone, Nafta etc. The lesson for the world is, if you're doing business with the US make sure the deals done in less than 4 years. Nothing new though. As for the environment cop out is BS, its just an easy win for the new admin.

Breaking an agreement with Canada, is of little consequence, keep the shale extraction going until its done and pump the domestic supply. Little difference in terms of net emissions and pollution, but it plays wells with naive millennial and environmentalists, they probably believe something significant was achieved.

Regardless, this was always going to happen.

Agreed. Stop fracking.

 

[Justin-case]

Pay attention to the auto industry.

His poor micro mind can't fathom the thought of driving something that doesn't go vrrooom!

Notice how the trumptards suddenly become environmentalists when it comes to electric vehicle production, lol.

 

[injinji]

if we quit subsidizing the fossil fuel industry and invest in green energy we can cut the pipeline....time to move on from oil/coal.

I heard this last night on the BBC. Electric cars now make up 54% of new cars sold in Norway. How did they do it? 100% tax on all ICE powered vehicles.

Electric cars rise to record 54% market share in Norway in 2020

The sale of electric cars in Norway overtook those powered by petrol, diesel and hybrid engines last year, with German auto-maker Volkswagen replacing Tesla as the top battery-vehicle producer, new data showed on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

OSLO (Reuters) - The sale of electric cars in Norway overtook those powered by petrol, diesel and hybrid engines last year, with German auto-maker Volkswagen replacing Tesla as the top battery-vehicle producer, new data showed on Tuesday. So-called battery electric vehicles (BEV) made up 54.3% of all new cars sold in the Nordic country in 2020, a global record, up from 42.4% in 2019 and from a mere 1% of the overall market a decade ago, the Norwegian Road Federation (OFV) said.
Seeking to become the first nation to end the sale of petrol and diesel cars by 2025, oil-producing Norway exempts fully electric vehicles from taxes imposed on those relying on fossil fuels.
The policy has turned the country’s car market into a laboratory for automakers seeking a path to a future without internal combustion engines, vaulting new brands and models to the top of bestseller lists in recent years.

 

[printer]

Yes you would think with all the issues with transportation the ideal of a refinery would be a no brainer. Maybe Alberta should have built one instead of no sales tax. Just sayin

A 10 billion dollar 80,000 barrel a day refinery was built in Alberta two years ago. 3.8 million barrels of oil move to the US from Canada a day. So there is no way the refining capacity of the Gulf Coast can be built, just too expensive. And then the refined oil then needs to get to the coast. Going to need a pipeline for that. On top of that the Gulf Coast oil companies own part of the oil sands to supply their plants. That would be even more billions the new plant owners would have to shell out. Then the US plants would still have to get oil for the plants, remember they are not built to take fracking oil but heavy oil. And what will happen to the price of oil if the world gets an extra 5% (world demand of 90 million barrels a day) online?

So we are talking trillions of dollars. And it is not (often) the Alberta Government or the Canadian government that builds to compete with private industry. So normally investors would pony up the trillions of dollars. But why would they do it if we want to be weened off of oil in 25 years? No way they will be able to recoup the cost. It costs $10 a barrel to get the oil from Alberta to the Gulf. A pipeline is economical.

The problem with the pipeline is that it crosses the border. If it was just a US pipeline it would have been built already. So the obvious thing that should have been done instead is to build a pipeline to the border, lay multiple train tracks looping to the other side, load up cars of oil on the Canada side and empty them into the pipeline on the US side.

Already said all I can on the topic, see you guys in the other threads.

 

[Khyber420]

Agreed. Stop fracking.

I mean if you guys had cut keystone and made a commitment to cut back the equivalent 800,000 bpd from domestic extraction I'd have applauded. But the way it was handled is just breaking a deal plain and simple. If Trump had done the exact same thing the left would be up in arms, Biden does it and they spread their cheeks. At least offer to setup some kind of green joint venture to replace those jobs, but nope...

 

[Fogdog]

I want fusion energy. Not holding my breath for it though. I doubt that abandonded oil wells would get 10% of our energy mix. Maybe the US, I was thinking the world. With how much energy we use now and where it seems to be going I think every 'green' source will have to be used, hydro and all. We are that carbon powered. Oh yeah, I spent the last ten years moving around air and water to heat and cool 3 million square feet of building space.

A green energy solution can be arrived at without inventing a completely new source of energy. Some say nuclear should be part of the solution and some say not. We can work a spreadsheet however we like. If one looks at the range of technology available right now, photo voltaic solar energy looks to be the dominant source of energy with wind, tidal and geothermal sources making up the balance. Whether or not nuclear is included seems to be a matter of the bias held by the author of the energy budget.

I'm all for investing in research for new sources. Fusion, hydrogen fuel cells, thorium reactors and so forth. None of which are ready for commercial use at this time or even the next ten years.

 

[Fogdog]

I mean if you guys had cut keystone and made a commitment to cut back the equivalent 800,000 bpd from domestic extraction I'd have applauded. But the way it was handled is just breaking a deal plain and simple. If Trump had done the exact same thing the left would be up in arms, Biden does it and they spread their cheeks. At least offer to setup some kind of green joint venture to replace those jobs, but nope...

US don't want Keystone pipes.

Get over it.