Waiting for the next shoe to fall.

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Do you think the US has better chance against China than last time if they have another military encounter?
Are you a nihilist? I don't think China or the US are interested in a hot war.

If you are talking about another Vietnam or Afghanistan, a political war through a country that borders with China, then I probably lean toward China.

A nuclear war, US vs China, nobody wins.
 

bernie344

Well-Known Member
Are you a nihilist? I don't think China or the US are interested in a hot war.

If you are talking about another Vietnam or Afghanistan, a political war through a country that borders with China, then I probably lean toward China.

A nuclear war, US vs China, nobody wins.
Nobody wants war, except the arms dealers
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Republicans rally to keep Cheney in power
The establishment wing of the GOP won a rare and dramatic victory Wednesday night, when Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) beat back an attempt by Donald Trump’s staunchest allies to knock her from power as retribution for voting to impeach the former president just three weeks earlier.

The 145-61 vote in favor of keeping Cheney in leadership, conducted by secret ballot, followed a marathon, closed-door “family discussion” in the basement of the Capitol Visitors Center, where dozens of House Republicans lined up to voice their frustrations with the Wyoming Republican, the most powerful GOP woman in Congress, and called for her removal as conference chair, a role that entails leading the party’s messaging efforts.

Maybe all the republican votes should be private so they would not have to feel like scared little rabbits and vote how they should.
 

Rottedroots

Well-Known Member
It's a rare individual or politician who can utter the words "I WAS WRONG" which is why hx is doomed to repeat itself. There were lots of good people who voted for Trump in 2016 but they just thought he was something different. No one knew what his politics were because there was no history of them. Face it, the idea of draining the swamp is not really a bad one but once the Trump supporters on the street and in the Senate recognized that he had the Midas Touch of evil no one spoke up. Jesus freaking Christ! I can't think of a single time that a fellow republican came out and confronted Chump. Even after four of the worst years in our history individuals intelligent by any measure still support the clown. In order to give our elected officials some balls I'm thinking TERM LIMITS!!
For the latest in bizarre conspiracy theories check out the Quora digest's Pro Trump zone. You won't be able to say or ask anything with even a hint of reality or the banning will be swift. Intelligent Trump Supporters? WTF
 

printer

Well-Known Member
It's a rare individual or politician who can utter the words "I WAS WRONG" which is why hx is doomed to repeat itself. There were lots of good people who voted for Trump in 2016 but they just thought he was something different. No one knew what his politics were because there was no history of them. Face it, the idea of draining the swamp is not really a bad one but once the Trump supporters on the street and in the Senate recognized that he had the Midas Touch of evil no one spoke up. Jesus freaking Christ! I can't think of a single time that a fellow republican came out and confronted Chump. Even after four of the worst years in our history individuals intelligent by any measure still support the clown. In order to give our elected officials some balls I'm thinking TERM LIMITS!!
For the latest in bizarre conspiracy theories check out the Quora digest's Pro Trump zone. You won't be able to say or ask anything with even a hint of reality or the banning will be swift. Intelligent Trump Supporters? WTF
There were ones that challenged him(few), they were branded as RINO's. Jeff Flake, McCain, a few others, mind you a slim few.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
It's a rare individual or politician who can utter the words "I WAS WRONG" which is why hx is doomed to repeat itself. There were lots of good people who voted for Trump in 2016 but they just thought he was something different. No one knew what his politics were because there was no history of them. Face it, the idea of draining the swamp is not really a bad one but once the Trump supporters on the street and in the Senate recognized that he had the Midas Touch of evil no one spoke up. Jesus freaking Christ! I can't think of a single time that a fellow republican came out and confronted Chump. Even after four of the worst years in our history individuals intelligent by any measure still support the clown. In order to give our elected officials some balls I'm thinking TERM LIMITS!!
For the latest in bizarre conspiracy theories check out the Quora digest's Pro Trump zone. You won't be able to say or ask anything with even a hint of reality or the banning will be swift. Intelligent Trump Supporters? WTF
It wasn't all that hard for me or for the majority of the US to see what kind of person Trump was. All most needed to hear was that bit about how Mexico was sending rapists, terrorists, drug smugglers and a few good people into the US, That was in 2015. It wasn't hard to hear "dictator" in his words. He did not get a majority vote. Ever. We saw. We knew. We resisted. We voted that fucker out.
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Plain truth is, many who voted for him wouldn’t KNOW a con-man would make a terrible president...and A *LOT* of the people who voted for him did it because they WANTED him to fuck us up - because they KNEW he’d be a disaster and THAT’s what they wanted; because he was the Asshole God their empty souls demanded....

kinda the human dilemma right there: most of us want the assholes to stay away, mind their own business, not play tormentor/bully games; too many of the rest want the assholes to win, want to grow up to be assholes just like them, be bigger assholes than them, make the world safe for assholes. Much of Trump’s “success” and “accomplishment” in office was simply DJT being in “full dick mode” for his entire term. Not much of an accomplishment, tho: it’s his default setting - his only setting beyond cowering (“DJT meets Eagle” comes to mind) and whining (“king-sized” martyr complex).

They STILL love and admire and obey him...because his short temper, his lack of judgment, his general ignorance, his self-importance, his insecure need to BE IN THE SPOTLIGHT - IN CONTROL, his willingness to strike out violently without thought, his inability to think before speaking - these are the things his supporters IDENTIFY WITH. They see themselves in him, and feel him in themselves: Trump is the monster of their collective id, and the Krell - the rest of us - deserve to die...even if they die, too.

They are his puppets...but he is theirs, too
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Plain truth is, many who voted for him wouldn’t KNOW a con-man would make a terrible president...and A *LOT* of the people who voted for him did it because they WANTED him to fuck us up - because they KNEW he’d be a disaster and THAT’s what they wanted; because he was the Asshole God their empty souls demanded....

kinda the human dilemma right there: most of us want the assholes to stay away, mind their own business, not play tormentor/bully games; too many of the rest want the assholes to win, want to grow up to be assholes just like them, be bigger assholes than them, make the world safe for assholes. Much of Trump’s “success” and “accomplishment” in office was simply DJT being in “full dick mode” for his entire term. Not much of an accomplishment, tho: it’s his default setting - his only setting beyond cowering (“DJT meets Eagle” comes to mind) and whining (“king-sized” martyr complex).

They STILL love and admire and obey him...because his short temper, his lack of judgment, his general ignorance, his self-importance, his insecure need to BE IN THE SPOTLIGHT - IN CONTROL, his willingness to strike out violently without thought, his inability to think before speaking - these are the things his supporters IDENTIFY WITH. They see themselves in him, and feel him in themselves: Trump is the monster of their collective id, and the Krell - the rest of us - deserve to die...even if they die, too.

They are his puppets...but he is theirs, too
Trump is an extreme authoritarian leader who would not be anything but an amusing side show if it weren't for his followers. I can't understand them but there is research available about them.


There is clearly a relationship between innate authoritarian tendencies and a willingness to reject democratic norms. It becomes dangerous to society when those views are given standing by some political leaders. When other leaders stand idly, the potential increases for these views to become acceptable to less authoritarian partisans who initially may have rejected such views. Indeed, scholars such as Mann and Ornstein trace this transformation among Republican leaders in Congress back to Newt Gingrich’s rise to power a generation ago. The findings in the Monmouth project show how readily these views can pervade the party’s voter base when they are left unchecked by leadership,” said Murray.

According to the Monmouth researchers, Republican leadership failed to counter Trump's white nationalist rhetoric and the Republican base followed him into an attempt to overturn our democracy. It wasn't a sudden shift for the GOP. The article lays the change toward radical authoritarianism in the Republican Party at Gingrich's feet while I've heard others say it all started with Barry Goldwater.

Everything I've read about high right wing authoritarian types says they are going to double down even more and become more deeply entrenched in Trumpism. It will continue until Republican leadership gives up on their attack on democracy. Their tactics are voter suppression, gerrymandering and barriers to voting for people who don't look like them. This all says that they haven't given up just yet.
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
Trump is an extreme authoritarian leader who would not be anything but an amusing side show if it weren't for his followers. I can't understand them but there is research available about them.


There is clearly a relationship between innate authoritarian tendencies and a willingness to reject democratic norms. It becomes dangerous to society when those views are given standing by some political leaders. When other leaders stand idly, the potential increases for these views to become acceptable to less authoritarian partisans who initially may have rejected such views. Indeed, scholars such as Mann and Ornstein trace this transformation among Republican leaders in Congress back to Newt Gingrich’s rise to power a generation ago. The findings in the Monmouth project show how readily these views can pervade the party’s voter base when they are left unchecked by leadership,” said Murray.

According to the Monmouth researchers, Republican leadership failed to counter Trump's white nationalist rhetoric and the Republican base followed him into an attempt to overturn our democracy. It wasn't a sudden shift for the GOP. The article lays the change toward radical authoritarianism in the Republican Party at Gingrich's feet while I've heard others say it all started with Barry Goldwater.

Everything I've read about high right wing authoritarian types says they are going to double down even more and become more deeply entrenched in Trumpism. It will continue until Republican leadership gives up on their attack on democracy. Their tactics are voter suppression, gerrymandering and barriers to voting for people who don't look like them. This all says that they haven't given up just yet.
I haven’t read the Monmouth but it doesn’t contradict other research or my own observations; the Reagan-Bush years, the overthrow cadre absorbed the bulk of the Republican and libertarian parties; in the Clinton-Gingrich years, they overhauled the House to serve as their tool and began work on the Senate; in the Shrub years, we got the “Patriot” Act, the Dept. of Homeland Security, and a permanent state of war - all of which greatly strengthened the GOP grip on the federal government - and thereby increased the control the overthrow cadre could exercise over the details of “conservatism”, “conservative policies”, and could push more “tea party” types and AynRand fanboys into public office.

By the time Obama took office, conversion of the Senate was complete, and McConnell has kept it under tight control ever since; the number of anti-government, anti-federal ideologues holding federal office - or employed by those holding federal office - reached a critical point in 2010. The GOP Senate has been openly mutinous, in sweeping violation of our laws, our traditions, and their oaths, continuously ever since; not just individual senators have supported the treasonous acts: the Senate itself has aided and abetted the anti-governmental breakdown of political order, and the openly criminal violations of #Mar-A-Loser at every step.

As a means to their ends, they have programmed authoritarian attitudes and responses in their bases once the late 70s. It’s certainly true that even those who *aren’t* being carpet-bombed by brainwashing are vulnerable to it; those who are, who have been continuously subjected to it daily, lose the ability to think about what they believe outside of the boundaries of that belief. They become captured by the frame that’s been imposed on their (mis)understanding of the world: they identify with their beliefs and are incapable of evaluating any of it.

I sincerely hope you’re right about them giving up eventually...but the emotional core of it all is that if GOP denounces Trump and Trumpism convincingly, his thralls will consider themselves betrayed and organize themselves into a Take Down the USA party. Their support may erode over time, but the grievances of the slaver south were kept alive and burning for enough years to allow them to find each other on the internet; I have no doubt they will remain aflame for the foreseeable future.

The best possible outcome of the current snarl IMO is that the GOP splitting into a traitors’ party and a lunatic party will lead to increasing dominance of policy making and lawmaking by the Dems. Only a good outcome, though, if we stay awake, stay activate, keep the pressure on.
 

Rottedroots

Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ again! Talk about vindictive, even the third most powerful republican leader is getting pounded by her not towing the party line. The sad part is Marjorie Taylor Greene who is a woman so beyond vile (and plagued with some sort of mental illness) but the publicants see her as the future of their party. Does the party as a whole REALLY buy her putrified message or are they terrified of Trump the sackless wonders.
Good people don't vote for Racists, Females don't vote for a man who admitted to sexually assaulting numerous women. The religious right wouldn't vote for a man who had been divorced more than once and who doesn't know what side of the Bible is up. Environmentalist don't vote for a man who you know is going to exploit every resource we have and bring back coal fired generators. (They were planning on cleaning the coal so much no problems would exist). People receiving money from the government would never vote for Trump either. I asked a woman I know who is a Trump supporter. She has THREE special needs kids that get one on one teacher aids. They receive a pretty healthy sized EBT card. They get their housing paid thru section 8 as well as utilities. She gets Masshealth medical insurance which is pretty damn good. She liked Trump because he was going to stop the wet backs from coming in and getting welfare toot sweet. She had no idea of which side of the bread her butter was one. How can so many people NOT recognize their mistake and vote for him the 2nd time. He did such a good job at reviving The coal industry in rural Virginia that they voted for in the second time. We do have to remember the only person those Trump supporters knew was Trump. He was their TV friend.
Your right fogdog. The entrenched right wing authoritarian types are going to follow Trump like dogs. I hope your right Dog that the right/republicans will give up their attack on Democracy. It proves intelligent people can be ignorant at the same time.
It worries me that long term change will be too late coming to stop the immediate threats to ourselves as well as the world.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm being optimistic in thinking give them time and eventually they will be forced to change or their party will die. Ten years of being out of power in DC and erosion in the number of states where they hold a death grip they hold on state government will force a reckoning. Eventually they will have to change or the US will become a 1-party system where the Democratic primary decides who holds the seats. I'd prefer that they start trying to win over voters rather than exclude Democrats from the polls.

Agree with Bag and Roots that for now there is no sign of change in Trump's hold on the GOP. The only course of action for now is to oppose Trump/his followers in each and every election for as long as anybody can foresee.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm being optimistic in thinking give them time and eventually they will be forced to change or their party will die. Ten years of being out of power in DC and erosion in the number of states where they hold a death grip they hold on state government will force a reckoning. Eventually they will have to change or the US will become a 1-party system where the Democratic primary decides who holds the seats. I'd prefer that they start trying to win over voters rather than exclude Democrats from the polls.

Agree with Bag and Roots that for now there is no sign of change in Trump's hold on the GOP. The only course of action for now is to oppose Trump/his followers in each and every election for as long as anybody can foresee.
The Democrats had to change with the times.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
OAN Declares War on Newsmax for ‘Censoring’ MyPillow Guy
In a cynical attempt to hamstring one of its main competitors, fringe cable channel One America News this week accused fellow pro-Trump outlet Newsmax of “being swept up by leftist censorship” after Newsmax anchor Bob Sellers stormed out of an interview when Lindell wouldn’t stop peddling voter fraud conspiracies.

The Right is such a fun place to be right now. Flopping around like a fish out of water.
 
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