Will You Take The Vaccine?

[captainmorgan]

Karen doesn't believe either.

Woman who intentionally coughed on cancer patient gets 30 days in jail

A Florida woman who pled guilty to misdemeanor assault after she was caught on video deliberately coughing on a cancer patient in a Jacksonville store last year has been sentenced to 30 days in jail. the Associated Press reports. The incident took place on June 25 at Pier 1 at the St. Johns Town...

deadstate.org

 

[mooray]

Okay, so...what you're laughing at is the same with the billions of flu vaccines that have been given. You can still catch it and spread it, but your symptoms are greatly reduced. All you're doing is reinforcing what I'm saying, which is that there's nothing exciting or new going on here, but because it's new to the uninformed, the informed people have to repeat this shit over and over and over with each new generation of uneducated people.

 

[captainmorgan]

It takes time for the immune system to build the protection, it's not a light switch jenius.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

but you can?


look your argument for the shot is really no different than the other side's argument for not getting the shot

i mean @mooray just used the same opposing logic

No my arguments are based on facts and data, the other side's are based on fear and disinformation, nothing more. I have the experts from around the world on my side too, but appealing to authority is a weak argument and rhetorical trick.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

you don't know that

why do you have to wear a mask still after you get the shot? why do you still have to social distance?

Variants

 

[HaroldRocks]

how about this:

a friend of mine, his daughter caught it, brought it home, his wife caught it, but him and his son never caught it

Okay, so...what you're laughing at is the same with the billions of flu vaccines that have been given. You can still catch it and spread it, but your symptoms are greatly reduced. All you're doing is reinforcing what I'm saying, which is that there's nothing exciting or new going on here, but because it's new to the uninformed, the informed people have to repeat this shit over and over and over with each new generation of uneducated people.

but listen man - you still don't really know that

ppl are still catching it, ending up in the hospital, and still dying - after getting the shot

how do you know whether that same amount of ppl would've reacted the same way with or without the shot?

you don't know

you're only taking in what you're reading and watching and then repeating it

 

[HaroldRocks]

thats not true either with the flu shot

i know plenty of ppl who've caught some nasty flu's after getting those shots

me? i don't get the flu shot and i still don't catch the flu

 

[HaroldRocks]

do we exclude anybody from anything because they didnt get the flu shot?

no

why not?

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

how about this:

a friend of mine, his daughter caught it, brought it home, his wife caught it, but him and his son never caught it




but listen man - you still don't really know that

ppl are still catching it, ending up in the hospital, and still dying - after getting the shot

how do you know whether that same amount of ppl would've reacted the same way with or without the shot?

you don't know

you're only taking in what you're reading and watching and then repeating it

Just because you don't have a firm grip on reality doesn't mean the rest of us suffer from the same state of mind. Intelligent people asses what they read and make judgments about it using logic and independent facts. I haven't seen a Trumper do that, they just believe what the orange fool tells them, no matter how stupid, cruel and nonsensical it is.

 

[HaroldRocks]

Variants

oh ok

so then maybe it's not even worth getting the shot and taking that risk

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

do we exclude anybody from anything because they didnt get the flu shot?

no

why not?

Very low mortality rate (tens of thousands of old folks a year though) and vaccines that have a low efficacy compared to mRNA covid vaccines. Also the flu has been with us forever, though this season it was almost non existent, public health measures stopped it too.

 

[hanimmal]

So, don't join. Their mission is to be ready to fight a war, not soothe the brows of people who are bad at reasoning.

Most companies are going in that direction too. Antivaxxers threaten our economy. If you don't want a vaccine, don't take it but an employer has every right to exclude antivaxxers when they threaten the health of other employees or customers. They don't want a plague ridden anachronism to ruin their business. It's also an indication of low intelligence, so, they will find ways to legally let them go. No loss.

This is a very interesting point.

By being 'anti-vaxxer' I could see them actively separating themselves into a specific class of job that minimizes their contact with the public that business is in contact with.

If there is not a book written about this kind of thing (taken to the extreme), there should be.

Kind of the underground people in Stallone's Judge Dredd/ Demolition man who are 'shit on by society' because they don't take vaccines. Then at the end the Hero who is fighting the system for the little guy decides to get vaccinated to blow something up, and realizes that everyone is just normal people and he is given every opportunity to succeed and the real delusion was from the people who choose to separate.

 

[hanimmal]

it is not - it's a viral vector


Viral vector-based vaccines differ from most conventional vaccines in that they don’t actually contain antigens, but rather use the body’s own cells to produce them. They do this by using a modified virus (the vector) to deliver genetic code for antigen, in the case of COVID-19 spike proteins found on the surface of the virus, into human cells. By infecting cells and instructing them to make large amounts of antigen, which then trigger an immune response, the vaccine mimics what happens during natural infection with certain pathogens - especially viruses. This has the advantage of triggering a strong cellular immune response by T cells as well the production of antibodies by B cells. An example of a viral vector vaccine is the rVSV-ZEBOV vaccine against Ebola.

Is the troll here that the word 'most' means that there can be different vaccines and you are just using as a way to push out a bunch of stuff that most people won't have any clue if it is real or not?

I am not a medical expert are you? If so cool. Was I incorrect about the word 'most' being the thing that makes your doubling down of people calling it a vaccine kind of nonsensical?

 

[HaroldRocks]

Very low mortality rate (tens of thousands of old folks year though) and vaccines that have a low efficacy compared to mRNA covid vaccines. Also the flu has been with us forever, though this season it was almost non existent, public health measures stopped it too.

again - that's not something that you truly know - you don't know how effective an mRNA covid shot is - too to early to tell still - but you're swearing by it because that's what you've been fed

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

oh ok

so then maybe it's not even worth getting the shot and taking that risk

Sure, almost half male trump supporters and a majority of evangelicals feel that way, unfortunately it won't kill enough of the bastards to make a difference. I in 3 covid patients does have mental issues as a result of the illness and an even higher number have physical issues and maiming, then there are the covid long haulers. Death and recovery are not the only options, being fucked for life is the biggest risk of all with covid. Feel free to play the lottery though, but at some point I would expect your health care insurance will be cancelled if you get covid and are unvaccinated. The insurance companies will save a fortune, they own the republicans, and the democrats want everybody vaccinated ASAP, who's gonna stop them?

 

[Fogdog]

yea but it isn't a "vaccine" in the traditional sense of that word

doesn't help you from catching it and spreading it

only person that it "might" help is yourself - so there's really no point in excluding anybody who chooses not to get the shot

What do you mean when you say "doesn't help you from catching" or spreading it"?

This is what the CDC says:

• Based on evidence from clinical trials, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 illness in people without evidence of previous infection.

They say the same about the Moderna and J & J vaccines except with different percentages in effectiveness.

They also say there is still much to know:

What We are Still Learning

• We are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms.
• We’re also still learning how long COVID-19 vaccines protect people.
• We are still learning how many people have to be vaccinated against COVID-19 before most people can be considered protected (population immunity).
• We are still learning how effective the vaccines are against new variants of the virus that causes COVID-19

So, if you are hesitant because we don't have all the information, then it's true, we don't have all the information. What are you waiting to see?

 

[mooray]

how about this:

a friend of mine, his daughter caught it, brought it home, his wife caught it, but him and his son never caught it

but listen man - you still don't really know that

ppl are still catching it, ending up in the hospital, and still dying - after getting the shot

how do you know whether that same amount of ppl would've reacted the same way with or without the shot?

you don't know

you're only taking in what you're reading and watching and then repeating it

It's easy to explain; you simply don't know what 90% means. There's still......that ten percent.

Here's the thing, if you have to come this far dodging so much information from so many people with doctorates that have spent their lives studying this stuff and somehow you're more knowledgeable.....then I beg you to not get any shots, nor seek any type of assistance from these same type of people in any hospital anywhere. And if you have friends or family with severe nut allergies, I think maybe you should all eat peanuts, because your willful ignorance leads to less of you and less of those like you, which can only make the country smarter and stronger.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

again - that's not something that you truly know - you don't know how effective an mRNA covid shot is - too to early to tell still - but you're swearing by it because that's what you've been fed

No, we have phase 3 clinical trials that determine efficacy and now real world data that has clearly established effectiveness. Science is a competitive business too and ya better not try to bullshit the peers in your field, this is science, not politics, different subject with different people involved with different motivations. Science is about facts, politics is about policy.

 

[hanimmal]

you're taking a risk either way

so it depends on what risk you'd rather go with

Exactly. I will choose the one with thousands of medical professionals and scientists behind it checking everybody else work to make the same conclusions that have doubled our lifespan (over the last what hundred years?) over people's 'feels'.

Ok - and it's also totally normal that some ppl might die from covid or end up in the hospital....but at least 90% won't right?

I guess what you might be missing is that the people who are in the hospital from this, would have been what 10% of the people who get Covid in your example, if they were all vaccinated, that 10% would have 95% of them not likely to have ended up in the hospital. 10% hospitalized (unvaccinated), or .5% hospitalized (vaccinated), 9.5% is a lot of sick people and unnecessary strain on our healthcare system.

That is complicated, but important point to understand.

you don't know that

why do you have to wear a mask still after you get the shot? why do you still have to social distance?

1. Because like others have said, you can still get sick (like if your vaccine didn't take) and pass along the virus.

And 2. Because maybe it is time to learn as a society that we cannot safely linger in everyone else's spew range. I find it odd that we haven't figured this out with about 60,000 people dying every year (and untold amount of lost economic output due to people working sick/getting others sick (both people they work with and people they come in contact with throughout the day)), but we now know.

It is crazy that people think that they can just ignore the very real reasons to just get used to wearing a mask when in large groups and are indoors and staying home when they are sick.

 

[Fogdog]

again - that's not something that you truly know - you don't know how effective an mRNA covid shot is - too to early to tell still - but you're swearing by it because that's what you've been fed

The Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective at preventing Covid-19 illness and the Moderna vaccine is 94% effective -- two weeks after both jabs are taken within the appropriate window in time. Is it exactly that number? Probably not but it's close to those numbers. We know this because that's what happened in clinical trials.

Again, we know that the virus can't infect 95% of the people who are vaccinated. If 80% of the population is vaccinated, the virus will not be able to find enough susceptible people in order to replicate itself and will die out.

What part of this do you disagree with?