Russia protest Putin.

[Sativied]

It has been a while since the last world war.

Is that a cryptic way to say the EU brought stability as well? Classic pro-EU point from politicians here but there’s no reason to assume europe would have caused another world war without the EU. It’s bad economics without a union too. Ironically it is Germany that is the main source of stability and they do not want war with Russia either. They need their natural gas to keep warm during winter.

The people must be free to make their choices in a freedom and stability and Russia won't allow that to happen for a reason.

That’s the opposite of reality for most Crimeans.

and they should invite the ethnic tartars back home too.

Well, half of ‘m died when they were deported. Many did come back and guess what, the majority of them in Crimea wants to be part of Russia.

As for China helping against Russia, not in this timeline they won’t. The other way is far more likely, and likely far more necessary too. Afterall it’s China who puts millions in camps to rape and torture, not Russia.

America and the west have a bone to pick with Russia and retribution is long overdue, in a world without justice retribution is the only way to deal with Putin. Also there was that matter of a price on US and NATO troops heads and attacks in western countries with weapons of mass destruction used as weapons of assassination and intimidation.

You’ve been hanging around with americans too much. What happened to good ol’ Canadian conciliatory? We‘ve been sanctioning Russia for a long time without any results and all out war with Russia is recipe for litterally making the planet uninhabitable. This is not a game, not a Hollywood movie. If the US and Russia want to test out their weapons against each other take that shit to the Bering Strait and not our backyard. Want to take out Putin? Expect an even crazier loose canon nationalist to replace him.

 

[mooray]

But are we not civilized enough yet that it's acceptable for however many millions of Ukrainians to be sitting in their homes right now worried about an invasion just because the asshole neighbor gets a hardon for trolling? This aggression will not stand, man.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Is that a cryptic way to say the EU brought stability as well? Classic pro-EU point from politicians here but there’s no reason to assume europe would have caused another world war without the EU. It’s bad economics without a union too. Ironically it is Germany that is the main source of stability and they do not want war with Russia either. They need their natural gas to keep warm during winter.


That’s the opposite of reality for most Crimeans.


Well, half of ‘m died when they were deported. Many did come back and guess what, the majority of them in Crimea wants to be part of Russia.

As for China helping against Russia, not in this timeline they won’t. The other way is far more likely, and likely far more necessary too. Afterall it’s China who puts millions in camps to rape and torture, not Russia.


You’ve been hanging around with americans too much. What happened to good ol’ Canadian conciliatory? We‘ve been sanctioning Russia for a long time without any results and all out war with Russia is recipe for litterally making the planet uninhabitable. This is not a game, not a Hollywood movie. If the US and Russia want to test out their weapons against each other take that shit to the Bering Strait and not our backyard. Want to take out Putin? Expect an even crazier loose canon nationalist to replace him.

Like I said NATO is meeting on it now, you don't know the wishes of the people in the region anymore than I do, they need the freedom to choose and to do that they need freedom. If the situation was as you describe in the Ukraine was true the Russians would be in the majority, the last election proved this not to be the case. One of the reasons we fought the second world war was laid out early in the Atlantic Charter signed in 1940 with in sight of my parents home in Newfoundland that predates the UN charter, it is the right of self determination.

War is the last option for sure, but doing nothing is not one either, but I wanna take Russia back to the stone age anyway until they shit out Vlad and his dream of rebuilding the Soviet empire. Economic sanctions will include killing the German pipeline deal with green energy. Russia is the main player behind the fight against climate change and worked for decades to kill treaties on global warming. This is the main front, cutting off their oil and gas exports and the one I figure we will focus on. You would be surprised at what a little encouragement to China could do, greed will do the rest.

 

[captainmorgan]

@Sativied no it was just a cynical view of the human race. There's always another psycho that wants to run the whole show and takes things too far.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Is that a cryptic way to say the EU brought stability as well? Classic pro-EU point from politicians here but there’s no reason to assume europe would have caused another world war without the EU. It’s bad economics without a union too. Ironically it is Germany that is the main source of stability and they do not want war with Russia either. They need their natural gas to keep warm during winter.

The EU has grown too powerful IMHO, it is difficult to have a common currency without consistent economic policy. Also where exactly are the borders of Europe and who enforces immigration and sets policy? While I'm generally in favor of the EU it appears to over reach and under perform, Vlad doesn't like it much, so it must be doing some good. I'm not suggesting another gulf war style conflict in the Ukraine, it won't come to that, but perhaps it should, tanks and all, we will see. If Vlad believes it will his tail will be between his legs pretty quick, if he believes otherwise he will keep pushing. What if he decides to push against Poland? A favorite Russian whipping boy with a half ass populist democracy these days.

 

[Sativied]

you don't know the wishes of the people in the region anymore than I do

Apparantly I do. It’s over half for Crimean Tagars, much higher for total Crimea. Not everything is edited by Putin. It’s a fact the vast majority of Crimeans want to be with Russia. I realize that kills your argument Canadians should be sent in to give them the freedom to make a different choice, but changing the facts isn’t fruitful.

If the situation was as you describe in the Ukraine was true the Russians would be in the majority

I was referring to Crimea, the part annexed by Russia, where the Russian are in the majority, by far.

Like I said NATO is meeting on it now

I bet they did that with Georgia (the country) too.

but I wanna take Russia back to the stone age anyway until they shit out Vlad and his dream of rebuilding the Soviet empire

A fine sentiment but not very pragmatic.

Economic sanctions will include killing the German pipeline deal with green energy

Sounds nice in theory, but the pipeline in Germany is basically part of their green energy. NL used to be a major supplier of natural gas but we had to cut it down because we were getting earthquakes. That combined with climate targets is forcing dutch homeowners to replace natural gas (which we all need for heating and use for cooking) with other solutions. You can imagine how pissed many are at our German neighbors for embracing natural gas as a cleaner “solution” to replace their dirty coal. Germany isn’t going to budge when it comes to the pipeline.

 

[Sativied]

But are we not civilized enough yet that it's acceptable for however many millions of Ukrainians to be sitting in their homes right now worried about an invasion just because the asshole neighbor gets a hardon for trolling? This aggression will not stand, man.

Sounds like an appeal to emotion. I’d say millions in camps are a bigger priority than people scared by the possibility of invading Russians. If they actually turn agressive and invade than surely someone will be civilized enough to help them. Maybe get everyone vaccinated first...

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Apparantly I do. It’s over half for Crimean Tagars, much higher for total Crimea. Not everything is edited by Putin. It’s a fact the vast majority of Crimeans want to be with Russia. I realize that kills your argument Canadians should be sent in to give them the freedom to make a different choice, but changing the facts isn’t fruitful.


I was referring to Crimea, the part annexed by Russia, where the Russian are in the majority, by far.

I bet they did that with Georgia (the country) too.


A fine sentiment but not very pragmatic.


Sounds nice in theory, but the pipeline in Germany is basically part of their green energy. NL used to be a major supplier of natural gas but we had to cut it down because we were getting earthquakes. That combined with climate targets is forcing dutch homeowners to replace natural gas (which we all need for heating and use for cooking) with other solutions. You can imagine how pissed many are at our German neighbors for embracing natural gas as a cleaner “solution” to replace their dirty coal. Germany isn’t going to budge when it comes to the pipeline.

First I don't trust opinion polls coming out of Russian controlled territory any more than I would trust Stalin. The world needs to cut back on fossil fuel usage and we should start with Russia. I didn't say it would be easy, quick or convenient or even free of acrimony, sacrifices will have to be made whatever course of action is taken. Demark stopped drilling for new gas and is planting windmills off shore and energy storage solutions are coming online.

I don't make the calls on NATO only to my MP, but I support whatever is necessary to deal with Putin and retribution is the way. You need good faith to negotiate and Putin has none, but he does have a dream though and those who dream while awake are the most dangerous. You might as well make a deal with Trump as make one with Putin.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

You can imagine how pissed many are at our German neighbors for embracing natural gas as a cleaner “solution” to replace their dirty coal. Germany isn’t going to budge when it comes to the pipeline.

You can also imagine Vlad cutting off Germany's gas supply in the middle of the winter too, he's done it to others for "political purposes", being dependent on Vlad is a bad idea, it's like being dependent on Trump. He will drive the wedge further into NATO with the pipeline.

 

[captainmorgan]

Things could unravel quickly in Europe with mass migration from the south. The arab spring was the result of bread prices from a Russian drought. Droughts are happening more frequently and lasting longer all over the planet.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

A fine sentiment but not very pragmatic.

A pragmatic solution for North America would be to dissolve NATO and let Europe deal with Vlad on their own, we could save a lot of cash. Germany is strong again and almost every member of the EU has an economy bigger than Russian. If Europe wants to deal with Putin their way I have no real objection, just do it on your own dime.

The economic system of world trade created after the second world war was designed to make future major wars difficult with so much economic interdependence among nations. Russia is holding the shit end of the stick, scarred by decades of Stalin and stupid communist policy, they never really integrated into the world economy when compared to places like China. China is a rival, Russia is an enemy or behaves that way.

 

[captainmorgan]

Brexit was the result of the last pulse.

 

[Sativied]

First I don't trust opinion polls coming out of Russian controlled territory any more than I would trust Stalin

Fair enough when it comes to outcome of the referendum they had but it’s a heavily researched key question by international organizations and there’s no real debate anymore about what most of the crimeans want. Back to Russia. No longer be part or Ukraine, or better said back to sovjet union which doesn’t exist anymore.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Brexit was the result of the last pulse.

It was a contributing factor, so did the Russian operation initiating it and supporting it, anything to divide. The Brits are happy with the vaccine solution, but they will be most unhappy with the trade and travel restrictions. Anybody making anything in the UK for sale in the EU will still have to make them to EU standards. They might also be unhappy about the dissolution of their country if Scotland pulls the pin on the act of union and there are bigtime issues with northern Ireland.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I was referring to Crimea, the part annexed by Russia, where the Russian are in the majority, by far.

Then wouldn't it be wise not to take over Crimea or other parts of Ukraine and allow them to remain in Ukraine? Vlad's proxies would easily win the elections and they would the have a "political" solution.

 

[Sativied]

Then wouldn't it be wise not to take over Crimea or other parts of Ukraine and allow them to remain in Ukraine? Vlad's proxies would easily win the elections and they would the have a "political" solution.

Crimea is... was, less than 5% of the population of Ukraine. The Russians in Crimea made up 3.5% roughly. They and Putin don’t dictate election outcomes in Ukraine, oligarchs do. What other parts?

Things could unravel quickly in Europe with mass migration from the south. The arab spring was the result of bread prices from a Russian drought. Droughts are happening more frequently and lasting longer all over the planet.

As the whole covid situation shows, they’ll suck at handling any crisis and revert to doing their own thing, each country trying to invent the wheel on their own. There are thousands of immigrants on Greek islands in camps that make US detention centers look like holiday resorts. We pay Erdogan billions to keep millions of refugees from crossing the border into the european continent and many people drown trying. It’s a pretty big mess already.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Crimea is... was, less than 5% of the population of Ukraine. The Russians in Crimea made up 3.5% roughly. They and Putin don’t dictate election outcomes in Ukraine, oligarchs do. What other parts?

They are occupying other areas that are ethnic Russian too, I mean if you want to control a country the smart way, that's how you do it, provided you have the majority on your side, which he does not. I haven't heard a good justification for the Crimea invasion yet, except for control of the black sea and Russian naval bases. Like I said Russia signed onto Ukrainian boarders and when I said self determination I meant the country as a whole, not bits and pieces.

You won't deal with Vlad by being afraid of him, but by kicking him in the teeth.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I have confidence that Joe knows how to deal with Putin, so does Justin.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Biden proposes summit with Putin amid Russian military buildup on Ukraine's border - ABC News (go.com)

Biden proposes summit with Putin amid Russian military buildup on Ukraine's border
The U.S. and NATO met with Ukraine's foreign minister Tuesday to signal support.

President Joe Biden spoke with Russian President Vladimir Putin Tuesday and proposed the two hold a summit in a third country "in the coming months to discuss the full range of issues facing the United States and Russia," according to the White House.

The call came days after Biden spoke to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky amid heightened concern about a massive buildup of Russian forces along Ukraine's border and in Crimea, the Ukrainian peninsula that has been occupied by Russia since 2014.

Ukraine's foreign minister traveled to Brussels for meetings with Biden's Secretary of State Antony Blinken and senior NATO officials Tuesday in a strong signal of support for Kiev against any Russian aggression.

During his call with Putin, the White House said, Biden urged him to "de-escalate tensions" with Ukraine - and warned the U.S. would "act firmly" to defend its own interests after Russia's repeated cyber attacks and election interference.

Biden has emphasized a more nuanced approach to Russia than his predecessor, Donald Trump, who sought warmer relations with Putin and was criticized for downplaying Russian aggression, especially its interference in the 2016 presidential election to support him.

"President Biden reaffirmed his goal of building a stable and predictable relationship with Russia consistent with U.S. interests," the White House said Tuesday. U.S. officials have previously pointed to the agreement to extend New START, the last nuclear arms control pact between the U.S. and Russia, as an example of how the two countries can find common ground -- and Biden called for "building on" that during the call.

The Kremlin confirmed interest in that, saying, "Both sides expressed their readiness to continue the dialogue on the most important areas of ensuring global security... Biden expressed interest in normalizing the state of affairs on the bilateral track and establishing stable and predictable cooperation on such pressing issues," like Iran's nuclear program, Afghanistan, and climate change.

But Russia's enormous military buildup on Ukraine's borders may make any cooperation anathema in Washington. Russia has massed 41,000 troops at its border with eastern Ukraine and 42,000 more in Crimea, according to a spokesperson for President Zelensky.

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu confirmed Tuesday that the military has deployed two armies and three airborne formations to the region, but said they were participating in military exercises and in response to increased military activity by the U.S. and NATO.

 

[CikaBika]

Another CIA failed experiment/coup.. You can only kneel in front a CZAR. Slava Russia

 

[schuylaar]

Another CIA failed experiment/coup.. You can only kneel in front a CZAR. Slava Russia

America supports Navalny.