First Grow and Journal

[hilltopbud]

the new growth looks fine to me. i don't worry much about the first true set of leaves.

Really, thanks..... I did manage to kill one, probably drowned it but hey I've still got 3 of em going! Just wish those darned roots would come out so I can move them into my tent.

 

[Billy the Mountain]

I use rapid rooters so I wont be able to help much in the Rockwool. I do recall people saying that the rockwool tends to hold water though, and possible too much water or root rot is a concern. Hopefully some one with more experience in RW chimes in.

Agreed, I use both rockwool cubes and rapid rooters with equal success. The #1 problem people have with rockwool is over-saturation which can be a death knell for a delicate seedling. You don't want the rockwool at 100% saturation, around 75% judging by the weight seems about right. My rockwool cubes have the wrapper so will dry slower than bare cubes but I don't water until the cubes are substantially lighter; usually takes several days before any water is needed.

 

[hilltopbud]

Agreed, I use both rockwool cubes and rapid rooters with equal success. The #1 problem people have with rockwool is over-saturation which can be a death knoll for a delicate seedling. You don't want the rockwool at 100% saturation, around 75% judging by the weight seems about right. My rockwool cubes have the wrapper so will dry slower than bare cubes but I don't water until the cubes are substantially lighter; usually takes several days before any water is needed.

Agreed on that seems to be the biggest failure with them from everything I have read. As you can see in the pictures mine do not have the wrapper. Normally I have been watering them about 7:00 am and they are almost always really as light as a dry one (I keep a new one beside them to compare weight with). Remembering what they felt like when I first soaked them, they were pretty heavy. After I "water" them now, they are nowhere near the soaking weight, maybe 1/3 as much. Maybe I need to give them a bigger drink and not do it nearly as often.... When I feed them later it is generally around 5:00 and they are never as light as they are in the mornings so they get a smaller drink in the evening.

 

[hilltopbud]

Hump Day report...not much change. The two are doing pretty well and my curly girl is still curly. No roots showing. I think they are too wet so I'm going to start letting them totally dry out between drinks instead of twice a day. Soon maybe....

 

[rkymtnman]

are those 2x2 cubes?

 

[hilltopbud]

are those 2x2 cubes?

I believe they are 1"x1"x1 1/2" . The tallest plant is like 3 1/4".

 

[Billy the Mountain]

They're drowning, less is more

 

[hilltopbud]

They're drowning, less is more

I don't doubt you. This is my first rodeo and I'll screw it up probably, but at least I'm in the game now. I had been doing a bit more reading the last few days and agree on the drowning thing...at least over watering. I'm not gonna give them anything tonight and see how they do on once a day. Maybe that will get the roots searching.

 

[Mr. Mohaskey]

Make them stretch for their water. The have to work to make it work. Just like everything else, if you want it, you work for it, in some form or another.

 

[hilltopbud]

Well, one night without a drink looks like it almost did all 3 girls in. Won't do that again. Hopefully they are tough little gals. Gave them a small drink this morning and will check on them in a few hours to see if they need another sip. I only gave them like half of what I had been and the cubes were totally dry this morning.

 

[hilltopbud]

Maybe I only killed off 1 more of em. I believe I'm down to 2. The one that died was the one that had been looking too wet, the base of the stem had been brown for a few days. Looks like it finally bit the dust. I was worried that I had screwed up the other 2 but I think they will come out of this latest screw up. 2 down, 2 still moving along.
Still zero roots coming out but more leaf development. It has been 2 weeks since they sprouted now. I have been giving them the same nutes as above. Originally I had mixed up a small bucket of food and ph'd it. Then in my rookieness (if that is a word) I never checked the ph in it for about 5 days. Well, yesterday I did and it was 7.4 so I dropped that back down before feeding yesterday and will now check it and drop to 6.0-6.2 each day before feeding.
Side shot of all three:

Right one that I believe is a goner. This happened when I didn't water them at all for like 18 hours to let them dry all the way out and it did not make any progress yesterday.

Middle one: This was the first one up and stretched the most but is really looking good now I think. The cot leaves are almost all gone now and the first set of leaves looks like it is gonna fall off but the rest looks pretty good...doesn't it?

Left one: This one is making a pretty good comeback. Same with the cot leaves and first real leaves gonna fall off I believe but the rest looks ok?

 

[ZenWolf]

Think you have several issues going on:

1) They've stretched quite a bit for more light. Might want to just get a cheap fluorescent or a couple of CFLs for starting seedlings that you can keep within inches of them.

2) Agree with others that the rockwool probably cubes shouldn't need to be drenched so frequently unless they are in an extremely low humidity environment for some reason. Are you planning on eventually moving them into a net pot with hydroton or are they staying in rockwool cubes and an ebb and flow type setup? If you are planning on doing DWC or variant that uses net pots: might consider going ahead and placing the cubes into net their net pots with hydroton even if you have them on a tray for now. And instead of drenching the rockwool cubes, drench the hydroton around the cubes a couple of times a day. That'll tend to make the roots start searching outside the rockwool for water and nutrients as well as hold more water around them without drowning them. You can also bury them a bit in the hydroton to help support those stretched stems.

3) Getting the pH right in soilless media is important. And if it tends to rise above neutral (7'ish), don't be afraid of adjusting the pH of your water w/ light nutrients in it down to ~5.5 pH before application as you've already established that with your nutrient mix, it's going to rise with a little time. As the plants get bigger and you are using higher concentrations of nutrients, the pH will become more stable and you won't tend to have to deal with as much adjusting of pH to keep it within the 5.5 to 6.5 range. Or moral of the story, sounds like you have already become aware of pH importance but don't be afraid of starting at ~5.5pH with the light nutrient mix.

Optional consideration: Might want to give them a *very* lightly mixed foliar feeding.

 

[hilltopbud]

Think you have several issues going on:

1) They've stretched quite a bit for more light. Might want to just get a cheap fluorescent or a couple of CFLs for starting seedlings that you can keep within inches of them. Yea, I realized that pretty quickly and got them under some T5s about 2". That happened when I was using the little light that came with my dome. Before the next batch, I'll have a decent seedling light setup. They have not stretched any more since putting them under the current light.

2) Agree with others that the rockwool probably cubes shouldn't need to be drenched so frequently unless they are in an extremely low humidity environment for some reason. Are you planning on eventually moving them into a net pot with hydroton or are they staying in rockwool cubes and an ebb and flow type setup? If you are planning on doing DWC or variant that uses net pots: might consider going ahead and placing the cubes into net their net pots with hydroton even if you have them on a tray for now. And instead of drenching the rockwool cubes, drench the hydroton around the cubes a couple of times a day. That'll tend to make the roots start searching outside the rockwool for water and nutrients as well as hold more water around them without drowning them. You can also bury them a bit in the hydroton to help support those stretched stems. Yes, they are going into my rdwc setup in netpots with hydroton as soon as the roots come out. I do believe that the humidity is a problem at this stage. It is staying about 30% in my room and the cubes have no plastic on them. I watered them at 5:00 last night and this morning at 7:00 they were absolutely totally dry and my 2 good ones were slightly droopy after looking really good last night. With the humidity where it is, I'm at a loss for this seedling watering schedule. I may try the hydroton idea.

3) Getting the pH right in soilless media is important. And if it tends to rise above neutral (7'ish), don't be afraid of adjusting the pH of your water w/ light nutrients in it down to ~5.5 pH before application as you've already established that with your nutrient mix, it's going to rise with a little time. As the plants get bigger and you are using higher concentrations of nutrients, the pH will become more stable and you won't tend to have to deal with as much adjusting of pH to keep it within the 5.5 to 6.5 range. Or moral of the story, sounds like you have already become aware of pH importance but don't be afraid of starting at ~5.5pH with the light nutrient mix. Thanks, I checked it this morning and took it down to 5.8 before giving them their drinks. Now I'm hoping that they bounce back again, they were not drooping too badly but still didn't look like they did last night.

Optional consideration: Might want to give them a *very* lightly mixed foliar feeding.

 

[hilltopbud]

Pretty sure the party is over on these dudes. All 4 of the beans popped so it isn't anybody's fault but my own. Hard to tell, but I would bet on the watering issue, which occurred after I let them get all stretchy due to poor light choice. Humidity is an issue as it is only around 30% so the cubes were drying out really fast...then probably over watered...maybe they will come out of it today but looked like they were toasted this morning.

Rapid rooters are ordered and will be here Wednesday so maybe I will give it another go.

 

[ZenWolf]

Keep at it - 'failure is the best teacher' is as true of a truism as there can be.

 

[hilltopbud]

Keep at it - 'failure is the best teacher' is as true of a truism as there can be.

Thanks and I will. And you are correct about lessons learned in some ways.
Lessons learned or need to be...
1. I can get them the beans to pop, was 4 for 4 so keep doing what I did.
2. I need to not use the little light on the dome again as all that did was stretch them out right off the bat. Problem still is what light do I need to get for the seedling stage. I have my Redwood VS which is 600 watts but can be turned down to 10% and a T5 shop light with 4100K bulbs. Once I put them under the T5 at 2" they appeared to do "ok" until I probably screwed the pooch on over/under watering saga.
3. Going to try Rapid Rooters next time but am still seeing multiple versions of "how to use them". Some say to soak them first, some say don't, some say to water them from the top, some say to leave 1/2" of water in the tray for them.....

It will be what it will be, but I'm determined to make it happen. I just need to get those roots hanging out so I can get them into my rdwc setup this time.

 

[ZenWolf]

Problem still is what light do I need to get for the seedling stage. I have my Redwood VS which is 600 watts but can be turned down to 10% and a T5 shop light with 4100K bulbs. Once I put them under the T5 at 2" they appeared to do "ok"

I have a 200-something watt LED for seedlings and the first couple of weeks of veg. I do dim it for seedlings until their first leaves are out and going - I start it out really low/close when it's dimmed. The 600w should work dimmed down to 10% and close theoretically... just thinking though that if it's like most LEDs out there now, that 60w is going to be spread across a relatively large area which might not be ideal or give them less light than a 60w CFL. Just might find it easier at first to use fluorescents or CFLs since you can both park them within inches so the seedlings don't stretch and also not really worry about burning the seedlings since they grow relatively fast. I used to use CFLs personally until I got the 200w LED... You'll tend to get a feel for it after a couple of starts with your own equipment.

I've used Rapid Rooters as well. I put the Rapid Rooters about 25% down below the lip of the top of the net cups and fill them up with hydroton level with the top of the Rapid Rooter. And keep them in a tray and hand water the hydroton a couple of times a day plus leave a little water in the tray itself that the hydroton will wick up some throughout the day without the Rapid Rooter getting soggy/drowned.