RDWC Possible Root Rot

[iVirus]

Hello everyone, this is my first grow and I have been having some issues with my plant leaves wilting/clawing/spotting and stunted growth. My setup isnt 100% dialed in but im working on moving these plants to the new setup I have that is improved however I need to make sure I fix whatever issue there is now before making any adjustments.


Age of plants: 30 days old
Lights: T5 Fluorescent (was about 3-4" from top of the plant but I have moved them up since then to around 8-10"
Temperature in the room: 70-75f
Humidity: 50 - 60% (past 2-3 days its gotten to 70's but I got it back down to the 50-60 range)
Res Water temp: 70 - 76 f (No chiller yet but new setup will have one moving forward)
Water Level: (Water level looked like it was too high, barely touching the bottom of the net pot but I wanted it to be about an inch lower which I thought it was. This has been adjusted now and its sitting about an inch lower than the net pot.)
Nutes: Im using Botanicare line up... CALMAG / PURE BLEND PRO GROW / LIQUID KARMA / HYDROGUARD. I am using TAP Water and letting it sit in a container with a bubbler for AT LEAST 24 HRS.
PPM 200 * before I started having issues the PPM was around 900 ~ I initially added 75% of the recommended nutes but I thought I was having some signs of nute burn so I did a res change and backed off the PPM to 400. The plants got better after this but in a day or two they started having issues again. I did another res change today and added no nutes or anything else until I get some opinions.*
Ph: 5.8 - 6.5 (After res change I ph to 5.8 and let it drift up. Within 24 hours the PH is usually at 6.1-6.3, I let it sit there for about a day or two and then re-adjust to 5.8 and the PH is stable afterwards, I read that if its root rot the PH is supposed to go down from my understanding so im really confused at this point...)
Air is constantly circulating in the room, plants gently move every few seconds

I initially started with no HYDROGUARD but I read up that its great to add if your temps are on the higher end like mine, I have been adding it to every res change as instructed on the bottle. On this last res change after I added the hydro guard I started seeing an orange buildup on the side of the bucket, I lifted up the plants to check what's going on and as you can see from the picture I do think its root rot on 2 of the plants and the other 2 it seems like it's just starting on them. Before we got to this point when the humidity sky rocketed to high 70's there was a musty smell but I thought it was just from the high humidity and didnt think much of it. The water smell during then was also awful but now its cleared up a little and it doesnt smell as bad. I changed the water today and the water smells like dead plant matter thats going bad. I dont know if this is what hydroguard is supposed to do or whats going on but im trying to describe everything I can.

Here is a link for all the pics I uploaded if you need to view more:

http://imgur.com/a/z0YYqW3

PIC #1 and #2 is the initial issue I started having it was just on this plants leaf and on another both very similar. It got worst (pic #3) and now that specific leaf is dead.

The other pictures show one of the plants, some of the affected areas and the roots. There is another plant that looks worst root wise but I didn't get a picture of that one, if you need that too I can upload it.

If there is any other info that you need to better help identify the problem please let me know...

 

[DaFreak]

You have the right idea to keep an air-gap between the bottom of the net pots and the water, I usually had like a 4 inch gap. Root rot usually starts in the pots and not in the water, by giving them that gap it's an added layer of protection. I know a lot of people swear by products to prevent rot or even reverse it, I personally would not even bother and just start again. If you have problems with temps and are worried about getting root rot again, just ditch the DWC and use your same nutrients and a pot with medium of your choice and just do DTW and put that nonsense behind you.

 

[iVirus]

You have the right idea to keep an air-gap between the bottom of the net pots and the water, I usually had like a 4 inch gap. Root rot usually starts in the pots and not in the water, by giving them that gap it's an added layer of protection. I know a lot of people swear by products to prevent rot or even reverse it, I personally would not even bother and just start again. If you have problems with temps and are worried about getting root rot again, just ditch the DWC and use your same nutrients and a pot with medium of your choice and just do DTW and put that nonsense behind you.

Im hoping to stick with RDWC for now... At least for one full grow

Do you have any idea on whether that is root rot and if it is any suggestions on how to take care of it or another thread thats had similar problems??

 

[Bullet2112]

You want to avoid using organics as it can cause bacteria blooms....drop the liquid karma and cal/mag.

You might want to consider using something else for RDWC like AquaFlakes from house & garden or current culture nutrients as they are made for use in RDWC systems.

Your gonna need to treat your current problem with something like peroxide to stop the root rot.....flush and clean the system/sterilize. After you get the system stable and clean you can resume the use of Hydroguard.

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

Im hoping to stick with RDWC for now... At least for one full grow

Do you have any idea on whether that is root rot and if it is any suggestions on how to take care of it or another thread thats had similar problems??

Yes it's root rot. Usually once you have it that's it, you're done.. If it were me i'd rinse the slime off those roots as best you can and go sterile. Buy a gallon of Hypochlorous Acid 500ppm from amazon for 30$ (stronger version of clear res) and use 10ml a gallon along with enzymes. You could use bleach too but the Hypochlorous Acid is better. If you go the bleach route don't use 10ml/gal lol, you'll have to research a little bit to see how much to add.

 

[Billy the Mountain]

Reservoir looks awfully cloudy. Mine are crystal clear using salt nutes. Not familiar with your nutes but if organic, not the best choice for dwc.

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

Res Water temp: 70 - 76 f (No chiller yet but new setup will have one moving forward)

Getting the chiller and keeping it under 70f will help a bunch

Nutes: Im using Botanicare line up... CALMAG / PURE BLEND PRO GROW / LIQUID KARMA / HYDROGUARD. I am using TAP Water and letting it sit in a container with a bubbler for AT LEAST 24 HRS.

Ditch that, you aren't in soil.. If you want to stick with liquids go with GH 3-part flora, no additives (cal-mg) needed. If you wanna save money go with jacks 3-2-1. And like I said in the previous post go sterile, so you also won't need to let the tap water sit any more.

 

[iVirus]

You want to avoid using organics as it can cause bacteria blooms....drop the liquid karma and cal/mag.

You might want to consider using something else for RDWC like AquaFlakes from house & garden or current culture nutrients as they are made for use in RDWC systems.

Your gonna need to treat your current problem with something like peroxide to stop the root rot.....flush and clean the system/sterilize. After you get the system stable and clean you can resume the use of Hydroguard.

I see, I have been reading quite a lot about people saying to avoid organics in DWC/RDWC I thought it wouldnt be a problem but here we are...
I will be looking into that and I do have 35% peroxide so I will be using that to clean the system for now till new stuff comes.

Yes it's root rot. Usually once you have it that's it, you're done.. If it were me i'd rinse the slime off those roots as best you can and go sterile. Buy a gallon of Hypochlorous Acid 500ppm from amazon for 30$ (stronger version of clear res) and use 10ml a gallon along with enzymes. You could use bleach too but the Hypochlorous Acid is better. If you go the bleach route don't use 10ml/gal lol, you'll have to research a little bit to see how much to add.

I have 35% peroxide for the time being to use until I can look into that aswell..

Reservoir looks awfully cloudy. Mine are crystal clear using salt nutes. Not familiar with your nutes but if organic, not the best choice for dwc.

Yea its very cloudy now, it wasnt before I believe its from the rot...

Getting the chiller and keeping it under 70f will help a bunch

Ditch that, you aren't in soil.. If you want to stick with liquids go with GH 3-part flora, no additives (cal-mg) needed. If you wanna save money go with jacks 3-2-1. And like I said in the previous post go sterile, so you also won't need to let the tap water sit any more.

Yes cooler will be added soon as I can either solve this issue or start over.

Also I will look into other nutes, if you or anyone else knows anything else I can look into or improve please let me know.

I appreciate all the help thanks again!!!!

 

[yummy fur]

This is 100% a root problem, better to solve the problem first then start again, the whole point of hydro is the super root structure, so if that's borked from the beginning it sort of defeats the purpose. However this is exactly why I developed my Shallow Water Culture to solve the many problems that can so easily ruin a DWC. There's an explanation of it here.

All you need is Micro Grow Bloom, either GHE or GP3. you don't really need to worry about air temps or water temps or air stones you don't need additives, you don't need all that stuff if it's done correctly as per above link.

 

[DaFreak]

Dude, you’re going to spend $250 on a chiller, the electricity to run it so you don’t have problems in dwc. That’s insanity.

 

[Wastei]

Yes it's root rot. Usually once you have it that's it, you're done.. If it were me i'd rinse the slime off those roots as best you can and go sterile. Buy a gallon of Hypochlorous Acid 500ppm from amazon for 30$ (stronger version of clear res) and use 10ml a gallon along with enzymes. You could use bleach too but the Hypochlorous Acid is better. If you go the bleach route don't use 10ml/gal lol, you'll have to research a little bit to see how much to add.

I would argue bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is more stable and easier to use than hypochlorous acid. Sodium hypochlorite becomes hypochlorous acid when broken down in solution. Bleach has longer residual effect so you need to add it less frequent than hypochlorous acid.

The very small amount of sodium adds a little bulk if anything. They are both chlorine based sterilizing agents, bleach is most often easily accessible at any supermarket. Do whatever floats your boat, bleach been used in hydro for decades on a commercial scale.

 

[Wastei]

This is 100% a root problem, better to solve the problem first then start again, the whole point of hydro is the super root structure, so if that's borked from the beginning it sort of defeats the purpose. However this is exactly why I developed my Shallow Water Culture to solve the many problems that can so easily ruin a DWC. There's an explanation of it here.

All you need is Micro Grow Bloom, either GHE or GP3. you don't really need to worry about air temps or water temps or air stones you don't need additives, you don't need all that stuff if it's done correctly as per above link.

"Shallow water culture", that's a new one. A pig with makeup is still a pig in my book. The whole point with hydro is removing as many variables as possible.

Saying temps doesn't matter is very counterproductive without giving OP any directions on how to operate a sterile system. 3ppm is a good starting point in DWC.

Here's s dilution calculator: Chlorine dilution calculator

 

[xtsho]

Get rid of that Botanicare. I used it for one run years ago. It's not the best product for hydroponics.

Some people might have a fit but I'd dump that, refill with some synthetic nutes, use some damn clorox bleach at 4 ppm per gallon, and run sterile.

 

[xtsho]

I see, I have been reading quite a lot about people saying to avoid organics in DWC/RDWC I thought it wouldnt be a problem but here we are...
I will be looking into that and I do have 35% peroxide so I will be using that to clean the system for now till new stuff comes.



I have 35% peroxide for the time being to use until I can look into that aswell..



Yea its very cloudy now, it wasnt before I believe its from the rot...



Yes cooler will be added soon as I can either solve this issue or start over.

Also I will look into other nutes, if you or anyone else knows anything else I can look into or improve please let me know.

I appreciate all the help thanks again!!!!

The first thing to do is dump that nasty water and refill. If it's just plain water because you don't have any other nutes then that's better than those roots continuing to rot in that nasty soup. Put a few drops of bleach in there as well. I'd fill some kind of container that would allow me to dunk that entire mesh pot soaking the hydroton in a sterile solution as well.

 

[iVirus]

Dude, you’re going to spend $250 on a chiller, the electricity to run it so you don’t have problems in dwc. That’s insanity.

Please elaborate.. if I'm understanding correctly you're advising against the chiller idea and to just use bennies instead to avoid root rot from temps etc..?

I would argue bleach (sodium hypochlorite) is more stable and easier to use than hypochlorous acid. Sodium hypochlorite becomes hypochlorous acid when broken down in solution. Bleach has longer residual effect so you need to add it less frequent than hypochlorous acid.

The very small amount of sodium adds a little bulk if anything. They are both chlorine based sterilizing agents, bleach is most often easily accessible at any supermarket. Do whatever floats your boat, bleach been used in hydro for decades on a commercial scale.

Yeah I have bleach, peroxide and I ordered the hypochlorous acid just in case.. I dont mind having the extra stuff im sure one day i'll need them.

"Shallow water culture", that's a new one. A pig with makeup is still a pig in my book. The whole point with hydro is removing as many variables as possible.

Saying temps doesn't matter is very counterproductive without giving OP any directions on how to operate a sterile system. 3ppm is a good starting point in DWC.

Here's s dilution calculator: Chlorine dilution calculator

Thanks for the calculator link

Get rid of that Botanicare. I used it for one run years ago. It's not the best product for hydroponics.

Some people might have a fit but I'd dump that, refill with some synthetic nutes, use some damn clorox bleach at 4 ppm per gallon, and run sterile.

Yeah, I am looking into new nutes, I've been reading about the flora series / Lucas method which I might try out just to see how it goes... Im open to all ideas and suggestions this is my first time so im learning as I go..

After I flushed the system and added water only with no nutes at all the water is crystal clear and I still havent fully cleaned the buckets just yet so im sure that had a big part in all this.

The first thing to do is dump that nasty water and refill it. If it's just plain water because you don't have any other nutes then that's better than those roots continuing to rot in that nasty soup. Put a few drops of bleach in there as well. I'd fill some kind of container that would allow me to dunk that entire mesh pot soaking the hydroton in a sterile solution as well.

Yeah, I'm gonna be cleaning the hell out of the roots and I'm gonna submerge the entire pot in a solution i'll make...

---

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions again. I didn't think id get this much feedback!

 

[DaFreak]

No, I’m saying stop doing dwc all together. It’s prone to problems like root rot and since you already got it you are either looking at a life time of extra costs via chillers, beanies or both. Just use a pot filled with pro-mix and get the same results except without the added costs and failures.

 

[iVirus]

No, I’m saying stop doing dwc all together. It’s prone to problems like root rot and since you already got it you are either looking at a life time of extra costs via chillers, beanies or both. Just use a pot filled with pro-mix and get the same results except without the added costs and failures.

I enjoy building things so RDWC was a no-brainer for me and from my research once you get everything going right you don't have to babysit as much and a lot of people say their DWC/RDWC usually yields more than soil/soilless... Do you by chance have a journal I can follow up on or some pics/comparison of results from both. Either way at this point its too late to switch Im gonna try to get at least one grow with the current setup I got but I'm willing to look into other options as always.

 

[DaFreak]

I don't have a journal, just been growing for over 20 years in all forms of hydro and if anybody tells you they got more with one style vs another all they are telling you is that they screwed up one style. Lights, strains, experience determine your yield, not how you get your salts to the roots. There are certainly advantages of RDWC, but now you are going to invest ongoing money to avoid one of the weaknesses of it.

 

[Southernontariogrower]

You have the right idea to keep an air-gap between the bottom of the net pots and the water, I usually had like a 4 inch gap. Root rot usually starts in the pots and not in the water, by giving them that gap it's an added layer of protection. I know a lot of people swear by products to prevent rot or even reverse it, I personally would not even bother and just start again. If you have problems with temps and are worried about getting root rot again, just ditch the DWC and use your same nutrients and a pot with medium of your choice and just do DTW and put that nonsense behind you.

Like Hygrozyme, l grow slime! I do with it!

 

[Lordhooha]

This is 100% a root problem, better to solve the problem first then start again, the whole point of hydro is the super root structure, so if that's borked from the beginning it sort of defeats the purpose. However this is exactly why I developed my Shallow Water Culture to solve the many problems that can so easily ruin a DWC. There's an explanation of it here.

All you need is Micro Grow Bloom, either GHE or GP3. you don't really need to worry about air temps or water temps or air stones you don't need additives, you don't need all that stuff if it's done correctly as per above link.

Such terrible advice then A link to a guy on another forum that has fucked up plants in hydro. Hopefully thats not you on another forum. They need to be flushed………down a toilet or manhole and redone correctly.