Organic PH Up & Down

[Datcoldboi]

Hi guys,
On my 3rd grow here, trying a organic run. I am using Mother Earth 70/30 Coco/Perlite mix. I have amended the medium with Dr Earth 4-4-4, some worm castings & bat guano.
My seedlings have now sprouted so I’m wondering the best way to PH my water so I don’t kill any beneficial microbiological life.
I used lemon juice last night & got the reading to hold at 6.7. Woke up this morning & it was back up to 7.2. I’m looking to keep it in a range around 6.5-6.8. & I was told that lemon juice may kill beneficial microbes. So what are my options with this grow method? Any advice/ feedback is greatly appreciated, thanks.
3BOG x Mango Smile Day 3

 

[ZenWolf]

Define what you mean by 'organic'. Not trying to be pedantic by the way, but the term means different things to different folks.

But a long story short, pretty much anything you use that is organically derived like lemon juice: microbes are going to consume in short order and make whatever you used very short acting. On the other hand, if you use something like nitric or phosphoric acid for a pH down that microbes won't as readily break down: it will still break down into nitrogen and phosphorous (respectively) that the plant will consume and make "organic" by most any definition of the word 'organic'.

 

[Datcoldboi]

Define what you mean by 'organic'. Not trying to be pedantic by the way, but the term means different things to different folks.

But a long story short, pretty much anything you use that is organically derived like lemon juice: microbes are going to consume in short order and make whatever you used very short acting. On the other hand, if you use something like nitric or phosphoric acid for a pH down that microbes won't as readily break down: it will still break down into nitrogen and phosphorous (respectively) that the plant will consume and make "organic" by most any definition of the world 'organic'.

“Organic” as in I’m feeding the medium not the plants roots directly. I’m using coco but not salt based synthetic nutes, I’m using OMRI organic matter based nutes. Okay so phosphoric acid will be better for a PH down, what about PH up? I heard baking soda but not sure if that will hurt microbes. Thanks for the info

 

[ZenWolf]

I honestly wouldn't worry about the microbes toooooooo much when it comes to pH up or down. At the amounts it'll be diluted to in a nutrient mix that's safe for the plant, it should be safe for microbes that are beneficial to the plant. For pH up, potassium hydroxide is common. It breaks down into water and potassium (another element that plants need).

I'll put in the disclaimer though: Your definition of "organic" and OMRI might not fit those things as being organic. But if you are considering things like baking soda, which is just sodium bicarbonate... might as well consider something more beneficial to the plant like potassium hydroxide (IMHO).

Edit to add - Phosphoric acid is safer to work with vs nitric. But if you really wanted to get into the weeds with it (pun intentional)... ideal would be to use a nitric acid based pH down during vegetative growth (as it will break down into nitrogen for the bacteria to fixate for the plant) and phosphoric based pH down for flowering growth (as it will break down into phosphorous for the bacteria to fixate for the plant).

 

[Datcoldboi]

I was considering baking soda I guess out of lack of knowledge, like I said, this is my first “organic”grow & wasn’t sure of my options. I read on another thread that you could use it then couldn’t use it. That’s why I was hoping someone here had more knowledge on the matter & could point me in the right direction.

So potassium hydroxide is organic & a good Ph up & nitric/phosphoric acid for ph down? Guess I’ll buy it & see what happens. & again thanks for the help

 

[Richard Drysift]

If your mix is organic there is no need to ph anything. That being said lemon juice or ascorbic acid rather will affect ph but should not hurt microherd. It will drop ph precipitously which could also piss off the fungi; that is if mycorrhizae is present in the first place. With a light mix like this there’s no telling how active is it because it’s cut down with perlite & coco which actually should be good for young seedlings. Personally I would just water as needed and transplant to something stouter like ocean forest, etc. when this seedling gets bigger. Use soluble nutrients in the meantime but this probably won’t need anything but water for a few weeks.
Ask yourself....does anyone put potassium hydroxide or nitric acid on the plants in a forest? No ...it just rains on them. So just water the plants. There is no need to ph anything as long as compost is present in the mix. Adding more compost in solid or soluble form will help keep ph in proper range for absorption. If you don’t currently use granular mycorrhizae that’s something to look into; works much better than ph up/down. Add it by sprinkling in the hole at each transplant in direct contact with roots.

 

[Bukvičák]

There is a guy who has also tried coco with amendments. Looks like you gonna have really hard times...

 

[Datcoldboi]

There is a guy who has also tried coco with amendments. Looks like you gonna have really hard times...

Hope that’s not the case. I’ve seen not one but many people pull off tons of successfull harvests using this same method to grow. But if I fail, I guess I’ll try something different. But I know for certain that it can be done.

 

[Wattzzup]

Organic = soil
Coco = salts

There are tons of posts on here of people trying this method and failing. Not saying it doesn’t work but I’m not sure why you go against the grain?

 

[Jjgrow420]

what kind of water are you using?

 

[Datcoldboi]

Tap water with a ppm of 30 & a ph at a steady 8.0

what kind of water are you using?

 

[Datcoldboi]

Organic = soil
Coco = salts

There are tons of posts on here of people trying this method and failing. Not saying it doesn’t work but I’m not sure why you go against the grain?

Because I want to see if I can mimic what I’ve seen done, with similar results. & so far I’m having no issues, all 4 of them have sprouted & are doing fine. Planted seeds directly in the amended coco & bam 3 days later I have sprouts. Other people may have failed due to there own reasons. But you can’t tell me organic amendments can only be used in soil. That is misinformation. I feel like I can pull off a great harvest this way, but if I fail then I fail. Back to the drawing board I suppose, but for now this is what I’m doing. But if you have any recommendations that can help my situation, then great.

 

[Datcoldboi]

Another reason I wanted to try this method of growing is because I like the simplicity of it compared to my last grows. Amend your coco, top dress a few times & water when dry. Sounds simple enough.

 

[Southernontariogrower]

l use bs to raise my ph if l overshoot. I use bs for lots of things. But baking soda for ph up as it does buffer low ph. Works when l dont have a buffer.

 

[Datcoldboi]

l use bs to raise my ph if l overshoot. I use bs for lots of things. But baking soda for ph up as it does buffer low ph. Works when l dont have a buffer.

Are you growing organically as well? Are you using soil or coco

 

[Don't Bogart]

I use Phosphoric acid for down. Chelated calcium which has magnesium at a 2/1 ratio with Potassium hydroxide for up.
My understanding is that adding just potassium cuts off access of calcium and vise versa.
If you do buy the potassium hydroxide read the directions carefully. I got it in crystal form. Add it to water Not water to it. Not something to fool with.
I got the chelated calcium from a local garden shop 50# bag. I'm set for a while.

 

[ZenWolf]

Ask yourself....does anyone put potassium hydroxide or nitric acid on the plants in a forest?

Actually, nature does exactly this:


Nitrogen fixation occurs naturally in two ways: biochemical activity in certain types of bacteria and through lightening.

A flash of lightning unites nitrogen with oxygen, setting off a process that creates nitric acid. When nitric acid falls to the ground and reacts with minerals in the soil, it produces nitrates. Nitrates then can be used by plant life, forming the compounds necessary for cell growth.

 

[Dr. Who]

How about you learn to make basic bio tea's?

Use them once a month to keep the heard peaking.

Don't have to but, it's something that's NOT going to hurt. So it's once a month for me.
It's also the first wetting fluid for home built soils.
Also used at any transplant/up potting.

DO NOT use any kelp meal's in making basic tea's!

The use of kelp meals in tea brewing will reduce living bio counts by as much as 45%!

 

[xtsho]

Because I want to see if I can mimic what I’ve seen done, with similar results. & so far I’m having no issues, all 4 of them have sprouted & are doing fine. Planted seeds directly in the amended coco & bam 3 days later I have sprouts. Other people may have failed due to there own reasons. But you can’t tell me organic amendments can only be used in soil. That is misinformation. I feel like I can pull off a great harvest this way, but if I fail then I fail. Back to the drawing board I suppose, but for now this is what I’m doing. But if you have any recommendations that can help my situation, then great.

Why would you want to mimic that guy and his crispy fried plants?

Here's one of his grows. You should strive for better.

You want to mimic this?

 

[Don't Bogart]

We all want the best. We have ideals be it organic or not. We try our best. We learn from the best. And we sometimes cook them with the best intentions. I know I have.