Burnt LED Diodes

[MustGro]

Did the driver come from the same place as the light? I feel like I read something about a bunch of meanwell drivers meant for scrap, were used by some of these knockoff companies. Ive got 3 Meanwell drivers, and 1 Delta. Theyve all been trouble free so far. If you get another driver, snag them from JameCo or TRC, both have excellent customer service.
If you can diy, you can build killer light using HLG qb120's. HLG also has excellent customer service.

Yeah the driver was part of the kit from the same place. I've read other posts from members like @ANC that have had meanwells fail on them too so it's not just me. I've been emailing HLG for the last week or so, they do seem real good to reply.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Yeah the driver was part of the kit from the same place. I've read other posts from members like @ANC that have had meanwells fail on them too so it's not just me. I've been emailing HLG for the last week or so, they do seem real good to reply.

HLG isn't going to help you fix a knockoff of their boards, lol.

 

[MustGro]

HLG isn't going to help you fix a knockoff of their boards, lol.

I wasn't after them for that; looking at the Scorpion Daiblo.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

I wasn't after them for that; looking at the Scorpion Daiblo.

If you order from HLG use code RIU10 for 10% off. I own a bunch of HLG lights.

 

[MustGro]

Thanks for the tip but it won't work on the Canadian site. Pretty expensive here too; $1820 for the diablo and it doesn't go on sale as much as the US site. It's STILL on sale for $1189 USD this week too on the US site. Drop that 10% with the discount but add $120 USD for shipping to me in Canada. Plus there's duties to add. From my conversation with them:

For the duties, it would be 65-70CAD. I looked at the canadian HLG site, and it doesn't show the sale on their website. I would recommend calling their number ( (604) 755-1665 ) and asking for the sale price on the Scorpion Diablo fixture. This will help you avoid shipping and customs fees.
-Brock

Thank you for contacting HLG Customer Support

So I'm looking at $1189-119=$1070 USD
Plus 120 USD to ship to Canada=$1190USD
Convert to CAD at roughly 80 cents to the dollar=$1487CAD
Plus the duty of $70CAD=$1557CAD
Still cheaper than the $1820CAD on the Canadian site.
Guess I'll take Brock's advice and call the Canadian part and see if they can match that price. Or maybe I'll just order the fucking thing from the good old USA and be done with it.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Thanks for the tip but it won't work on the Canadian site. Pretty expensive here too; $1820 for the diablo and it doesn't go on sale as much as the US site. It's STILL on sale for $1189 USD this week too on the US site. Drop that 10% with the discount but add $120 USD for shipping to me in Canada. Plus there's duties to add. From my conversation with them:

For the duties, it would be 65-70CAD. I looked at the canadian HLG site, and it doesn't show the sale on their website. I would recommend calling their number ( (604) 755-1665 ) and asking for the sale price on the Scorpion Diablo fixture. This will help you avoid shipping and customs fees.
-Brock

Thank you for contacting HLG Customer Support

So I'm looking at $1189-119=$1070 USD
Plus 120 USD to ship to Canada=$1190USD
Convert to CAD at roughly 80 cents to the dollar=$1487CAD
Plus the duty of $70CAD=$1557CAD
Still cheaper than the $1820CAD on the Canadian site.
Guess I'll take Brock's advice and call the Canadian part and see if they can match that price. Or maybe I'll just order the fucking thing from the good old USA and be done with it.

All you have to do is Email them, and say the RIU10 code isn't working that you got off this website. They'll most likely give you one that works there. @Doug Dawson did it when he bought his 550 and UV.

Either way, I bet they'll hook you up with something.

 

[MustGro]

All you have to do is Email them, and say the RIU10 code isn't working that you got off this website. They'll most likely give you one that works there. @Doug Dawson did it when he bought his 550 and UV.

Thanks for the heads up; I'll give them a call this week.

 

[Doug Dawson]

All you have to do is Email them, and say the RIU10 code isn't working that you got off this website. They'll most likely give you one that works there. @Doug Dawson did it when he bought his 550 and UV.

Either way, I bet they'll hook you up with something.

Absolutely, email HLG Canada and tell them which light you are trying to purchase and that the RIU10 wont work, they will give you a custom code for 10% off

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

Yeah that's a valid point now isn't it. HLG is top of the heap no doubt. I'm torn between the Scorpion Diablo and the 420 boards from @Grow Lights Australia for my next light. You got an opinion on the Meanwell drivers @GrassBurner ? I'm pretty sure they're designed in Japan but made in China too. I killed an HLG 240 watt already.

Hey mate, I'm not sure if you're aware that our list prices are about 20% cheaper when ordering from outside Australia (no 10% sales tax) and when you apply the 10% RIU discount.

2x driverless 960mm double kits would be A$1113 plus $142 shipping = $1255. Get yourself a couple of HLG-320H-48A drivers from Digikey or Mouser for A$230-240 a pair and the total is A$1495.

That's C$1392.

Two 960mm boards have an identical footprint to the Diablo that you can then divide into two lights to hang higher or lower with more or less spread for an even bigger footprint or staggered plant heights.

Our spectrum is the best in the business. There is a waterproof option. You will end up with two Mean Well drivers that will put out 680-700W at the boards/740-750W at the wall (versus Inventronics max 600W at the boards/650W at the wall) and you can split them into two lights later if you wish.

Here's what you get. All you need to do is source your own drivers. We can send you drivers, but it makes more sense to buy them locally (cheaper, less warranty hassle etc). The Mean Wells still come with a seven year warranty. We've seen a couple of failures over the years, but they have either been 480 or 240 models. We haven't seen any 320 failures yet and we sell quite a few. Mean Wells are made in both China and Taiwan.

I hope I'm not spamming, but you did mention us first

 

[MustGro]

Hey mate, I'm not sure if you're aware that our list prices are about 20% cheaper when ordering from outside Australia (no 10% sales tax) and when you apply the 10% RIU discount.

2x driverless 960mm double kits would be A$1113 plus $142 shipping = $1255. Get yourself a couple of HLG-320H-48A drivers from Digikey or Mouser for A$230-240 a pair and the total is A$1495.

That's C$1392.

Two 960mm boards have an identical footprint to the Diablo that you can then divide into two lights to hang higher or lower with more or less spread for an even bigger footprint or staggered plant heights.

Our spectrum is the best in the business. There is a waterproof option. You will end up with two Mean Well drivers that will put out 680-700W at the boards/740-750W at the wall (versus Inventronics max 600W at the boards/650W at the wall) and you can split them into two lights later if you wish.

Here's what you get. All you need to do is source your own drivers. We can send you drivers, but it makes more sense to buy them locally (cheaper, less warranty hassle etc). The Mean Wells still come with a seven year warranty. We've seen a couple of failures over the years, but they have either been 480 or 240 models. We haven't seen any 320 failures yet and we sell quite a few. Mean Wells are made in both China and Taiwan.

I hope I'm not spamming, but you did mention us first

I was aware of the RIU discount and there is another 10% off because I live outside of Australia. I have gone through a shopping cart on your site to compare prices and shipping rates.
I think you have the highest quality boards out there and your prices are good. Lots of spectrum you won't get even with the Scorpion Diablo.
I went through the mouser site too; no problem getting any type of Meanwell you want there.
No problems with spamming here.
So here's my concern.
I'm an old air cooled 600 HPS grower. Made the switch to the 288 diode boards I mention on the first page, and I had some bad grows. Turns out I was running them too close. Got some advice from a member here to get them up more and my last run was pretty nice. So my LEDs are 240 watt Meanwells powering two 288 diode boards. Boards are rated at 125 watts on the site and they get 120 each. I had them 24-26 inches above my canopy this last run and I'd swear it was still too close. You can see some bleaching in the tops now that they're drying and the green color is fading.
I don't have more ceiling height (7.5ft) and my hydro setup is 17 inches off the ground at the top of the tube. I struggle to keep my plants under 4 feet usually. Yes I have nets to SCROG but I'm low on side room to get at the plants when I use the screen so I usually tie them up.
Your LEDs have more power than mine. 480 watts of Meanwell to two 420 diode boards. Yes I could turn them down, but the Meanwells lose efficiency.
I think this is the reason the Scorpion Diablo only has 660 watts at wide open. It's a max of 110 watts to each board and there are something like 648 diodes on each board. They mention it as a board you can run close to your plants on their site, I think.
So that's my main concern. Other than that I think you have better quality components and better spectrum than HLG. Tell me how I can run your lights and not fry my plants....

 

[firsttimeARE]

You mean, that's the price everyone else pays who never needed to have repairs or replacements.

I guess? Good to know companies stand by their product. This is the same workings behind insurance. Not everyone who pays uses it. But when you need to use it youre thankful.

I had the misfortune of another ballast going recently (wtf meanwell, make a better product) on a light I got from another company and they basically told me tough luck. Sad part is these Solstrips werent that much cheaper than HLG. So if HLG could afford to replace this company could of as well

 

[firsttimeARE]

Did the driver come from the same place as the light? I feel like I read something about a bunch of meanwell drivers meant for scrap, were used by some of these knockoff companies. Ive got 3 Meanwell drivers, and 1 Delta. Theyve all been trouble free so far. If you get another driver, snag them from JameCo or TRC, both have excellent customer service.
If you can diy, you can build killer light using HLG qb120's. HLG also has excellent customer service.

TRC is dope. Couldnt have been more pleased with their customer service. When I was doing my bridgelux builds I picked up 5 XLGs and they were great to deal with

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

I was aware of the RIU discount and there is another 10% off because I live outside of Australia. I have gone through a shopping cart on your site to compare prices and shipping rates.
I think you have the highest quality boards out there and your prices are good. Lots of spectrum you won't get even with the Scorpion Diablo.
I went through the mouser site too; no problem getting any type of Meanwell you want there.
No problems with spamming here.
So here's my concern.
I'm an old air cooled 600 HPS grower. Made the switch to the 288 diode boards I mention on the first page, and I had some bad grows. Turns out I was running them too close. Got some advice from a member here to get them up more and my last run was pretty nice. So my LEDs are 240 watt Meanwells powering two 288 diode boards. Boards are rated at 125 watts on the site and they get 120 each. I had them 24-26 inches above my canopy this last run and I'd swear it was still too close. You can see some bleaching in the tops now that they're drying and the green color is fading.
I don't have more ceiling height (7.5ft) and my hydro setup is 17 inches off the ground at the top of the tube. I struggle to keep my plants under 4 feet usually. Yes I have nets to SCROG but I'm low on side room to get at the plants when I use the screen so I usually tie them up.
Your LEDs have more power than mine. 480 watts of Meanwell to two 420 diode boards. Yes I could turn them down, but the Meanwells lose efficiency.
I think this is the reason the Scorpion Diablo only has 660 watts at wide open. It's a max of 110 watts to each board and there are something like 648 diodes on each board. They mention it as a board you can run close to your plants on their site, I think.
So that's my main concern. Other than that I think you have better quality components and better spectrum than HLG. Tell me how I can run your lights and not fry my plants....

Hi mate, I suggested 2x 320 drivers instead of the 480 drivers because 2x 320 drivers is very close to the Diablo configuration and 2x 480 drivers is a lot of power! As I mentioned, the footprint will be almost identical to the Diablo – which is why I suggested it.

There are many ways to skin a cat and some companies place their diodes close together (typical of the 288 diode type boards) whilst others place tham futher apart as we do. Placing diodes further apart increases light spread and reduces the heat influence of neighbouring diodes that hurt efficiency. Some companies are now placing lots of diodes even closer together but driving them at lower currents to prevent excessive heat build-up and increase efficiency, but the light itself is still concentrated over a small area (which is why you need lots of boards to get even light spread). Our PCBs are 1.6x the size of a typical 288/648 board, which spreads heat and light. The extra PCB metal also aids in cooling and efficiency. As do the larger heatsinks

On the subject of driver efficiency, if you are on 115/120V mains in Canada, the efficiency of Mean Well drivers does not follow the same curve as 230-277V. The HLG-480H series for example has its highest efficiency at 100% load on 230/277V, but on 115V efficiency peaks at 80% load and remains almost constant, with a very slight drop-off either side from 70-100%. The 320 drivers actually peak at 50% load on 115V mains (around 93% efficiency) and then fall off slightly to 100% (around 91.5% efficiency).

Dimming drivers on 115V mains actually increases efficiency, so I would not be too concerned about dimming. You would actaully be better off using 480 drivers (which are more efficienct to begin with) and dimming them to about 70-80%. The driver will be at its most efficienct (94%) and you will have power up your sleeve in case you ever need it for future grows.

LEDs are very flexible. You can turn them up, turn them down, lift them high, run them low, but in nearly all cases you should be able to get a good LED set-up into any room that has previously been running a 600W HPS without any issues.

Perhaps if you list the dimensions of your room I can create a PAR map for you. I would think that 2' of head room is plenty (7.5' less 1.5' hydro set-up less 4' plants. If you grow really tall plants (4' is a good size) you might also want to consider side-lighting. It will help with yield and give you more trimmable bud in the lower canopy.

As a final note, your existing 240 Mean Well drivers may work on our boards, but I would have to know the model and voltage. You could try them with the 240s first and swap to larger drivers later.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I was aware of the RIU discount and there is another 10% off because I live outside of Australia. I have gone through a shopping cart on your site to compare prices and shipping rates.
I think you have the highest quality boards out there and your prices are good. Lots of spectrum you won't get even with the Scorpion Diablo.
I went through the mouser site too; no problem getting any type of Meanwell you want there.
No problems with spamming here.
So here's my concern.
I'm an old air cooled 600 HPS grower. Made the switch to the 288 diode boards I mention on the first page, and I had some bad grows. Turns out I was running them too close. Got some advice from a member here to get them up more and my last run was pretty nice. So my LEDs are 240 watt Meanwells powering two 288 diode boards. Boards are rated at 125 watts on the site and they get 120 each. I had them 24-26 inches above my canopy this last run and I'd swear it was still too close. You can see some bleaching in the tops now that they're drying and the green color is fading.
I don't have more ceiling height (7.5ft) and my hydro setup is 17 inches off the ground at the top of the tube. I struggle to keep my plants under 4 feet usually. Yes I have nets to SCROG but I'm low on side room to get at the plants when I use the screen so I usually tie them up.
Your LEDs have more power than mine. 480 watts of Meanwell to two 420 diode boards. Yes I could turn them down, but the Meanwells lose efficiency.
I think this is the reason the Scorpion Diablo only has 660 watts at wide open. It's a max of 110 watts to each board and there are something like 648 diodes on each board. They mention it as a board you can run close to your plants on their site, I think.
So that's my main concern. Other than that I think you have better quality components and better spectrum than HLG. Tell me how I can run your lights and not fry my plants....

To the best of my understanding and from seeing or-gros three way side by side testing the high lights gen1: it seems like tweaked spectrums can affect how much light a plant can take. Added far red and especially that region between 450 and 400nm seems to give you better plant health. Granted, it was the gen1 highlight boards which are slightly different and a killer hydro setup but he had almost 2000ppfd at the tops at one point and the plants looked happier than under the hlgs (288+ reds and qb96). I don't know how it would work for you but I'd go gla over scorpion if prices were similar. Spread over the 4 bigger boards is going to be extremely similar to a diablo. And if you want more flexibility you can always go for 4 glad single boards. As for height issue: if you find things to tall on the first grow you can always add in a few blue strips to have some stretch control on tap.

 

[MustGro]

Hi mate, I suggested 2x 320 drivers instead of the 480 drivers because 2x 320 drivers is very close to the Diablo configuration and 2x 480 drivers is a lot of power! As I mentioned, the footprint will be almost identical to the Diablo – which is why I suggested it.

There are many ways to skin a cat and some companies place their diodes close together (typical of the 288 diode type boards) whilst others place tham futher apart as we do. Placing diodes further apart increases light spread and reduces the heat influence of neighbouring diodes that hurt efficiency. Some companies are now placing lots of diodes even closer together but driving them at lower currents to prevent excessive heat build-up and increase efficiency, but the light itself is still concentrated over a small area (which is why you need lots of boards to get even light spread). Our PCBs are 1.6x the size of a typical 288/648 board, which spreads heat and light. The extra PCB metal also aids in cooling and efficiency. As do the larger heatsinks

On the subject of driver efficiency, if you are on 115/120V mains in Canada, the efficiency of Mean Well drivers does not follow the same curve as 230-277V. The HLG-480H series for example has its highest efficiency at 100% load on 230/277V, but on 115V efficiency peaks at 80% load and remains almost constant, with a very slight drop-off either side from 70-100%. The 320 drivers actually peak at 50% load on 115V mains (around 93% efficiency) and then fall off slightly to 100% (around 91.5% efficiency).

Dimming drivers on 115V mains actually increases efficiency, so I would not be too concerned about dimming. You would actaully be better off using 480 drivers (which are more efficienct to begin with) and dimming them to about 70-80%. The driver will be at its most efficienct (94%) and you will have power up your sleeve in case you ever need it for future grows.

LEDs are very flexible. You can turn them up, turn them down, lift them high, run them low, but in nearly all cases you should be able to get a good LED set-up into any room that has previously been running a 600W HPS without any issues.

Perhaps if you list the dimensions of your room I can create a PAR map for you. I would think that 2' of head room is plenty (7.5' less 1.5' hydro set-up less 4' plants. If you grow really tall plants (4' is a good size) you might also want to consider side-lighting. It will help with yield and give you more trimmable bud in the lower canopy.

As a final note, your existing 240 Mean Well drivers may work on our boards, but I would have to know the model and voltage. You could try them with the 240s first and swap to larger drivers later.

Yeah 120 volts in my grow not 240. I see what you're saying with the efficiency of the meanwells. No problem using 320 drivers instead of 480's but since I'm an old air cooled 600 HPS grower I'm used to running things close and looking for more intensity. I had to "reset" my thinking AGAIN since I've joined this site. I always thought spectrum and intensity were king. Starting to learn that with the LEDs you can have too much intensity. In my mind I had it that I should run your lights at 240 watts a board because that was the max they'll take.
So the 320's are at max efficiency at 50% load and the 480's are best at 70-80%. I can see why you'd recommend 480's on 120 volt. You have an efficiency range for the 240 watt meanwells I'm running now?

If you want to spec my room that'd be great. I use panda plastic to close off my room in a bigger room. Current size is 12 by 6 feet, but I'm expanding that to 12 by 10, maybe 12 by 12 if I can squish the veg plants up a bit. The reason I'm expanding is side-lighting. You're reading my mind @Grow Lights Australia ! If you check the grow in my signature you'll see how close I wound up to my walls. Cost me a lot of nice bud, so the plan is to get at least 2 feet more each side and move some of my 288 boards down as side lights. Currently running 120 watts a board but maybe I should be running the 240's at a more efficient wattage? They'd be pretty hot at 24 inches at full bore on the sides; I think anyway.
I run CO2 and have a big A/C so I can deal with my summer heat and hot lights. System is an AeroFlo 36 but I only ran 6 plants last time due to size.
The unit takes about 4 by 8 feet empty; 6 by 10 feet in full bud, so I wind up with about 2 feet to spare on the end which is nice to move around and it's a place to put the CO2 and dehumids.

I'd like to use my 240 Meanwells on my boards and run them as side lights. There are 4 sets of these https://growlights.ca/collections/led-grow-lights-fusion-board-leds-fb288-lm301h-v3/products/250-watt-fb288-lm301h-3000k-660nm-uv-ir-led-fusion-board-light

Thanks for the interest and personalized service @Grow Lights Australia ; I appreciate it.

 

[MustGro]

To the best of my understanding and from seeing or-gros three way side by side testing the high lights gen1: it seems like tweaked spectrums can affect how much light a plant can take. Added far red and especially that region between 450 and 400nm seems to give you better plant health. Granted, it was the gen1 highlight boards which are slightly different and a killer hydro setup but he had almost 2000ppfd at the tops at one point and the plants looked happier than under the hlgs (288+ reds and qb96). I don't know how it would work for you but I'd go gla over scorpion if prices were similar. Spread over the 4 bigger boards is going to be extremely similar to a diablo. And if you want more flexibility you can always go for 4 glad single boards. As for height issue: if you find things to tall on the first grow you can always add in a few blue strips to have some stretch control on tap.

Thanks for the info @Rocket Soul !
Gotta admit I've never heard about adding blue light in flower to help control height. How much of a reduction in stretch can you get?

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

Those 240 drivers will work on our boards if you want to try them before you buy the 320s or 480s. I know driver efficiency is a concern to you but there are usually bigger efficiency gains from driving LEDs at lower currents than loading up your drivers.

I had a look at the plants in your thread and they looked pretty good to me! I saw some very slight bleaching and leaf curl indicative of heat stress but I didn't think it was as bad as you described. I also saw how much head height you have and I think you will be fine. My only other comment would be to maybe veg your plants a little less or thin them out a little bit as it was quite a jungle in there and I'm sure that light penetration to the lower canopy would have been an issue.

@Rocket Soul is on the money. PPFD measures photon density but individual photons carry different levels of energy so a high PPDF reading with a red light is not the same as a high PPFD reading with a blue light and your plants will respond accordingly. That means they can generally handle a higher reading if you have more red and especially far red (if your spectrometer reads far red) in there. We believe far red should be counted towards PAR so we are strong proponents of EPAR readings or extended PAR readings up to 780+nm.

For a room that size you will need more than a single Diablo or dual High Light 420 kits. They're normally good for a 4x4 up to 5x5 – though for a 5x5 we would recommend using thre 480 drivers (especially with CO2, see below) and hanging them a little higher to get better spread. But if you want to drive the LEDs a little lower and hang them closer to the canopy, then what I have suggested would cover the area mentioned.

On our PAR Map page you will see 2x340W kits in a 4x4. The light levels are quite high even at 60cm hang height but in an open room you don't have as much light reflecting off the walls back into the grow, so light levels will be lower than those here: https://growlightsaustralia.com/420-par-maps/

I would still suggest hanging them about 40-45cm above the canopy to maximise coverage. With CO2 your plants will be able to handle much higher light levels up to 1400-1500 PPFD.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Thanks for the info @Rocket Soul !
Gotta admit I've never heard about adding blue light in flower to help control height. How much of a reduction in stretch can you get?

Thanks for the info @Rocket Soul !
Gotta admit I've never heard about adding blue light in flower to help control height. How much of a reduction in stretch can you get?

To be honest I can't answer that, it will depend on strain and how much blue you add. My best guess is that having about 15% of total power (on a separate dimmer) as blue should suffice. Iirc correct 3500k is about 15-16% blue, 4000k about 20%, 5000k about 25%. So adding another 15% to either diablo or GLA should push you into 5000-6000k which should be able to counter the worst of a very decided stretch phase.

If you wanna play with tweaked multichannel spectrum to me it makes most sense to me to build a main channel with a balls to the floor flower spectrum, and then add blue in veg/transition rather than having a low K spectrum as base and then adding red.
The blue light response with all that it does (stretch inhibition/transpiration/potency) is much more attractive for individual control to me rather than the red light response.

 

[MustGro]

So I ordered 4 of these last week https://growlightsaustralia.com/product/high-light-420-and-heatsink/
Pretty impressive lights. Real heavy duty heatsink; the fins look like the ones on the cylinder head on my old air cooled dirt bike!
Here's a few pics of one with my 288 diode LEDs. There's 240 volts total (120 a board) to my 288's and 240 volts to the one GLA 420 board.
I hope I have the skills to get a lot out of these.....

 

[Rocket Soul]

So I ordered 4 of these last week https://growlightsaustralia.com/product/high-light-420-and-heatsink/
Pretty impressive lights. Real heavy duty heatsink; the fins look like the ones on the cylinder head on my old air cooled dirt bike!
Here's a few pics of one with my 288 diode LEDs. There's 240 volts total (120 a board) to my 288's and 240 volts to the one GLA 420 board.
I hope I have the skills to get a lot out of these.....

If you do a grow journal please tag me, would be nice to see the how the alibubbers perform next to a GLA board.