What Would an Evangelical Christian Country Be Like

Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
Yes you did. The post is still up. You described crimes like epstein committed but called it a voluntary agreement
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We agree that sex is consensual if both parties are capable of consenting and do right?
If you don't agree, maybe you could point out the error and what your definition of consensual is?

I don't think every fart from the ass of government declaring this or that is a crime is enough information to determine if the fart speaks of an actual crime. Malum Prohibitum etc.



Sometimes I miss the days when you lamely tried to refute my arguments before I so deftly put you away. :lol:
 
Dorian2

Dorian2

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
We agree that sex is consensual if both parties are capable of consenting and do right?
If you don't agree, maybe you could point out the error and what your definition of consensual is?

I don't think every fart from the ass of government declaring this or that is a crime is enough information to determine if the fart speaks of an actual crime. Malum Prohibitum etc.



Sometimes I miss the days when you lamely tried to refute my arguments before I so deftly put you away. :lol:
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Are you implying that if a fully capable minor consenting to sex with an adult authority figure is acceptable?

If I'm mistaken, all apologies. It IS the way that it reads in this context though.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Dorian2 said:
Are you implying that if a fully capable minor consenting to sex with an adult authority figure is acceptable?

If I'm mistaken, all apologies. It IS the way that it reads in this context though.
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I appreciate your polite way of asking.

Acceptable to who ? I don't know where I'd get the "authority" to deem something acceptable (as in prohibited or not prohibited) if it's something that doesn't involve me and is between people capable of consenting to something and do. I might have an opinion on whether I like something or not, but my opinion doesn't always grant me authority over other people.

The term "authority figure" is also something I'd ask for more definition on. Generally speaking, I think individuals are the best authorities over themselves and the process of a child becoming a fully autonomous individual varies from person to person and isn't fixed at an exact age.
 
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Dorian2

Dorian2

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I appreciate your polite way of asking.

Acceptable to who ? I don't know where I'd get the "authority" to deem something acceptable (as in prohibited or not prohibited) if it's something that doesn't involve me and is between people capable of consenting to something and do. I might have an opinion on whether I like something or not, but my opinion doesn't always grant me authority over other people.

The term "authority figure" is also something I'd ask for more definition on. Generally speaking, I think individuals are the best authorities over themselves and the process of a child becoming a fully autonomous individual varies from person to person and isn't fixed at a an exact age.
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In specific context to minors, many adults are seen as authority figures from the minor's limited perspective base. I teach guitar to mostly minor aged individuals, so in that situation I'm fully an authority figure in their young and inexperienced mindset. But since much of this discussion seems to be have borne from an instance where an individual such as Matt Gaetz or Epstein are tied into it, it would certainly suggest that the nuance of "authority figure" can be applied in context.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Dorian2 said:
In specific context to minors, many adults are seen as authority figures from the minor's limited perspective base. I teach guitar to mostly minor aged individuals, so in that situation I'm fully an authority figure in their young and inexperienced mindset. But since much of this discussion seems to be have borne from an instance where an individual such as Matt Gaetz or Epstein are tied into it, it would certainly suggest that the nuance of "authority figure" can be applied in context.
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I agree in many instances younger people have been taught, nudged, instructed or inculcated to defer to older people.

In your case, guitar teacher, it's entirely appropriate for a student to think of you as an authority figure in the guitar realm. Of course, if I were older than you and you were teaching me guitar I'd likely defer to your guitar knowledge, you would be the authority. On the other hand, older or younger than you I'd reserve the right to hold my own opinion on other matters that I knew more about.

Many young minds are capable of comprehending concepts that some older minds can't or won't. From my point of view, even as a kid, I rarely deferred to a person simply because they were older than me. I tried to evaluate WHAT was said as more important than WHO was saying it. I certainly tried to "respect elders" at least perfunctorily on the surface, knowing even then it makes more sense to respect actions and ideas than an age based hierarchy.

I don't like Epstein from what I know of him. My gut feeling is his mission in life was to manipulate other people. Haven't paid much attention to Matt Gaetz and don't feel qualified to weigh in on him. Isn't he being maligned for some of his sexual escapades ?
 
Dorian2

Dorian2

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I agree in many instances younger people have been taught, nudged, instructed or inculcated to defer to older people.

In your case, guitar teacher, it's entirely appropriate for a student to think of you as an authority figure in the guitar realm. Of course, if I were older than you and you were teaching me guitar I'd likely defer to your guitar knowledge, you would be the authority. On the other hand, older or younger than you I'd reserve the right to hold my own opinion on other matters that I knew more about.

Many young minds are capable of comprehending concepts that some older minds can't or won't. From my point of view, even as a kid, I rarely deferred to a person simply because they were older than me. I tried to evaluate WHAT was said as more important than WHO was saying it. I certainly tried to "respect elders" at least perfunctorily on the surface, knowing even then it makes more sense to respect actions and ideas than an age based hierarchy.

I don't like Epstein from what I know of him. My gut feeling is his mission in life was to manipulate other people. Haven't paid much attention to Matt Gaetz and don't feel qualified to weigh in on him. Isn't he being maligned for some of his sexual escapades ?
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Fair points. Unfortunately, particularly in this Evangelical thread, which can be encompassed as "religion" as a whole, the types of authority figures involved, along with the types of young minds that are possibly part of that particular subset, your assertations of your own ideologies, belief systems, an common sense probably wouldn't apply to many. But I think we're both smart enough to understand that the whole authority figure package is wrapped up in a belief system that basically prays (pun intended) on individual insecurity, weakness of mind, and many other social factors. Including perceived social stature, race, and the very social fabric of where this can be and is exploited.

As far as Gaetz, he's allegedly involved in a case of transporting minors over State lines that cross legal limits to consenting age groups.
 
Kindbud421

Kindbud421

Well-Known Member
smokinrav said:
You make the claim, YOU prove it..
I know all about the gnostic verses.
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Nice, didn't get into those much .. all I know is that every religion in those days claiming to be a "sect" or denomination of Christianity were ordered to nicea to discuss many things, including the writings by followers and disciples of Jesus. Constantine who had newly became christian ordered that those summoned would decide what to include or exclude from the common bible. Orders were to strike those writings that depicted Jesus as anything other than divine. Those writings that were questionable or tainted were eliminated and destroyed including tablets,scrolls, etc. History is written by the rulers/ winners...some texts remained after this due to common folk being in possession of it. The lost books of the bible is about as close to it as we are ever going to find. Of course if the library at Alexandria hadn't been burned we'd have more knowledge than what we would know what to do with.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Dorian2 said:
As far as Gaetz, he's allegedly involved in a case of transporting minors over State lines that cross legal limits to consenting age groups.
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I always thought the idea of crossing a "state line" somehow changing the ability or inability of a person to consent to something was absurd.
The ability to consent is joined to the given individual and not to the location of that individual.

Thank you for offering your commentary in an intelligible and polite way. It's refreshing.
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Kindbud421 said:
Nice, didn't get into those much .. all I know is that every religion in those days claiming to be a "sect" or denomination of Christianity were ordered to nicea to discuss many things, including the writings by followers and disciples of Jesus. Constantine who had newly became christian ordered that those summoned would decide what to include or exclude from the common bible. Orders were to strike those writings that depicted Jesus as anything other than divine. Those writings that were questionable or tainted were eliminated and destroyed including tablets,scrolls, etc. History is written by the rulers/ winners...some texts remained after this due to common folk being in possession of it. The lost books of the bible is about as close to it as we are ever going to find. Of course if the library at Alexandria hadn't been burned we'd have more knowledge than what we would know what to do with.
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they weren't ordered to Nicea, they were requested to come by Constantine, to discuss the bible and what should be in it. The people in that council never decided....so to deliever the book it was left to one Cardinal and he decided in the end what to put in and what not to put in......
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
BudmanTX said:
they weren't ordered to Nicea, they were requested to come by Constantine, to discuss the bible and what should be in it. The people in that council never decided....so to deliever the book it was left to one Cardinal and he decided in the end what to put in and what not to put in......
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I thought the ending of the book sucked. They sure could have used Hollywood back then.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I agree in many instances younger people have been taught, nudged, instructed or inculcated to defer to older people.

In your case, guitar teacher, it's entirely appropriate for a student to think of you as an authority figure in the guitar realm. Of course, if I were older than you and you were teaching me guitar I'd likely defer to your guitar knowledge, you would be the authority. On the other hand, older or younger than you I'd reserve the right to hold my own opinion on other matters that I knew more about.

Many young minds are capable of comprehending concepts that some older minds can't or won't. From my point of view, even as a kid, I rarely deferred to a person simply because they were older than me. I tried to evaluate WHAT was said as more important than WHO was saying it. I certainly tried to "respect elders" at least perfunctorily on the surface, knowing even then it makes more sense to respect actions and ideas than an age based hierarchy.

I don't like Epstein from what I know of him. My gut feeling is his mission in life was to manipulate other people. Haven't paid much attention to Matt Gaetz and don't feel qualified to weigh in on him. Isn't he being maligned for some of his sexual escapades ?
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What did Epstein ever do that you said wasnt ok?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
He thinks 12 year olds are fair play. He wont deny it

Hes a complete fucking pedophile
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That's inaccurate and a lame argument.

I think what people who are capable of consenting do in their sex lives is none of my business. That's not a personal endorsement of everything consenting people might do, as in, their behaviors would necessarily be my preference.

You seem unable to make a distinction between others business and yours. If I were less polite, I'd describe you as an idiot, but I'm polite.
 
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