Hungry or Locked out?

[Thai St1ck]

Hi everybody.
Hope you're all doing well and buds are free-flowing....

Hoping someone can chime in here on what they suspect the problem might be.
Were around 6 weeks into flower.

Environment 25'c-28'c Humidity 65%-75%
Lighting 240w lm301h 3500k + CREE XP-G3 660nm turned down to 220w
7gal Compost that's approximately 20% rice husks 20% coco 60% organic matter such as worm castings, bat guano, bone meal....lots of stuff in there.

Fed a combination of blue-green algae and brown seaweed extract @ 1ml/Ltr & 2ml/Ltr Liquid Bat Guano and a topdress of a 6 heaped spoons of humic acid and bonemeal mix "flowering booster 1-3-3"

Really at a loss here as to what may be the problem.....




Peace & Love
TS

 

[jfarrismu]

Nutrient deficiency (not enough nutes) and lockout have the same symptoms, but different causes. What is your pH like?

 

[ComfortCreator]

A few Qs...
how did you decide on this feed regimen?
Have they been greener before, is this a recent issue?


What you see appears to be Potassium deficiency...but the cause may not be a lack of it.

 

[Rolla J]

Symptoms of a potassium deficiency.
If you have recently top dressed, shall take about a week to uptake. Other than the humidity being too high for flower, everything looks great!

 

[Rurumo]

What kind of buffer did you add to your soil? If none, check your soil PH. Most non-nitrogen deficiencies turn out to be PH problems. I highly doubt you have a K deficiency, more likely your plants just can't take it up.

 

[Thai St1ck]

@ComfortCreator
A case of using what has been available.

Im based in Thailand and a lot of products i've used in the past when living in the UK, are not available here, or available at a ridiculously high price.
Many of the nute's available here aren't really tested and dont carry NPK values so kinda have to use stuff one at a time to figure out what it contains and how strong it is.

Previous run with this strain from seed (this time clone) was in a different compost mix that was fed only the blue-green algae and brown seaweed extract all the way through flower and it grew some beautiful buds imho.

This compost mix this time is very light in its composition in order to test the bottles nutes out a bit better.
Having a more inert medium would better show me how good the bottled stuff is, if that makes sense.

This time i added the liquid bat guano into the mix.
She has been fed the same as the other flowering plant thats 3 weeks ahead and she has shown no deficiencies or problems

She has been fed.
1ml/Ltr seaweed + 2ml/Ltr Liquid bat guano since going into flower 6 weeks ago.
At approx 2 weeks in she got 3 tablespoons of the humic acid & blood meal 1-3-3 as a topdress.
Then again at 4 weeks but i cant remember how many spoons i gave, either 3 or 6 i cannot rememeber, was a stoner moment.

It was a few days after this top-dress that this started.
Also, the light was a couple inches closer before and has been raised in case it was from lighting.

@jfarrismu Being honest here, i stopped checking the pH of my feeds many moons ago growing in organics. But a good point and worth checking.
My water comes from a well and it has been raining a lot here recently so maybe my water is out of whack.

 

[ComfortCreator]

@ComfortCreator
A case of using what has been available.

Im based in Thailand and a lot of products i've used in the past when living in the UK, are not available here, or available at a ridiculously high price.
Many of the nute's available here aren't really tested and dont carry NPK values so kinda have to use stuff one at a time to figure out what it contains and how strong it is.

Previous run with this strain from seed (this time clone) was in a different compost mix that was fed only the blue-green algae and brown seaweed extract all the way through flower and it grew some beautiful buds imho.

This compost mix this time is very light in its composition in order to test the bottles nutes out a bit better.
Having a more inert medium would better show me how good the bottled stuff is, if that makes sense.

This time i added the liquid bat guano into the mix.
She has been fed the same as the other flowering plant thats 3 weeks ahead and she has shown no deficiencies or problems

She has been fed.
1ml/Ltr seaweed + 2ml/Ltr Liquid bat guano since going into flower 6 weeks ago.
At approx 2 weeks in she got 3 tablespoons of the humic acid & blood meal 1-3-3 as a topdress.
Then again at 4 weeks but i cant remember how many spoons i gave, either 3 or 6 i cannot rememeber, was a stoner moment.

It was a few days after this top-dress that this started.
Also, the light was a couple inches closer before and has been raised in case it was from lighting.

@jfarrismu Being honest here, i stopped checking the pH of my feeds many moons ago growing in organics. But a good point and worth checking.
My water comes from a well and it has been raining a lot here recently so maybe my water is out of whack.

What a solid post. You really are doing a great job with your challenging setup. And Thailand all right my brother I smoked some Purple Thai right before this post! I absolutely love thai bud and think it is about the best there is in cannabis.

Anyway...yeah you got this sxxx handled. You have a slight potassium deficiency that started a few weeks ago as the plant reached this point where it uses the most potassium.

It still uses a lot from here out, tapering down as the run goes on. You want to increase the potassium a bit if all else is OK.

 

[Thai St1ck]

@Rolla J This is approximately 2 weeks after the top dress.

@Rurumo I will check the soil pH, will grab a meter tomorrow.
The soil composition is made up of composted mushroom growing medium. After the mushrooms have been harvested the blocks or composted down. This is mixed with coconut fiber, rice husks, worm castings, fish castings, bat guano.

 

[Thai St1ck]

@ComfortCreator

I've been here over 7 years.
When i first came here there was hardly anything available anywhere.
You couldnt even find perlite let alone even a basic "indoor potting mix"
Most nutrients available were pure chemical.
If you wanted something "organic" you either made it yourself or had to know "where to look".
No such thing's as "one stop grow shops" as we in the west think of.
More like open air flower markets or small mom and pop shops catering to farmers and such.
Once in a while you would find something "organic" but no idea what is it nor how strong it is.
Then you find something thats really good then cant remember where you bought it amongst the thousands of stall holders.....

I've found a few unique and outstanding products, this blue-green algae and brown seaweed extract being one of them.
Any plant i've thrown it on has just grown super big and beautifully.

Now things here are changing and changing quickly.
More and more products are now being made in thailand along with more imports of products too but i know that 90% of those import products are not needed to grow excellent bud.
Very soon i can see us exporting certain products to growers around the world.

And i agree, i believe Thai buds are amongst the best!
However, they ruin months and months worth of growing with piss poor harvesting techniques.
Drying too quick in the sun then compressing it into bricks whilst the buds are still damp in the middle, wrapping it in gold foil and shitloads of sticky tape!......
It's such a shame.....

Peace & Love
TS

 

[ComfortCreator]

@ComfortCreator

I've been here over 7 years.
When i first came here there was hardly anything available anywhere.
You couldnt even find perlite let alone even a basic "indoor potting mix"
Most nutrients available were pure chemical.
If you wanted something "organic" you either made it yourself or had to know "where to look".
No such thing's as "one stop grow shops" as we in the west think of.
More like open air flower markets or small mom and pop shops catering to farmers and such.
Once in a while you would find something "organic" but no idea what is it nor how strong it is.
Then you find something thats really good then cant remember where you bought it amongst the thousands of stall holders.....

I've found a few unique and outstanding products, this blue-green algae and brown seaweed extract being one of them.
Any plant i've thrown it on has just grown super big and beautifully.

Now things here are changing and changing quickly.
More and more products are now being made in thailand along with more imports of products too but i know that 90% of those import products are not needed to grow excellent bud.
Very soon i can see us exporting certain products to growers around the world.

And i agree, i believe Thai buds are amongst the best!
However, they ruin months and months worth of growing with piss poor harvesting techniques.
Drying too quick in the sun then compressing it into bricks whilst the buds are still damp in the middle, wrapping it in gold foil and shitloads of sticky tape!......
It's such a shame.....

Peace & Love
TS

Thank you for the terrific background and insights into Thailand and growing.

That brick style sounds like what was done in Mexico for a few decades until the USA decided we could crush that market over time. They grow so much and have so much trouble hiding it, they have to compress it for shipment. Total shame! I just want to sit in one of the fields and smoke it all...

Can you share what it is like for someone in Thailand who does not grow their own...what is it like finding a source and is it great stuff or iffy just like everywhere else? Never heard anyone talk about the market in Thailand!

 

[Thai St1ck]

@ComfortCreator

Very much so i would compare Thai brick to Mexican brick.
Price wholesale for a KG brick can vary anywhere from 10,000baht to 30,000baht , lets say $300-$1000.
The more "North" you go, the cheaper it becomes.
Cross the border into Laos and you can get a KG for $80-$100.

A lot of "Thai" weed is actually from Laos and a small percentage from Cambodia.
Grown very close to the border where the laws on the other side are less strict and the operation run by military or police.

Iv'e had some uncompressed buds from the mountains in laos that was super strong and a knockout trippy stone.

They just really really really do not understand the science behind drying and curing.
And i get it, its difficult to dry properly on a mass scale.

Humidity swings can be huge and difficult to manage.

I struggle sometimes too after a few days of constant rain.

Heres a picture of a KG brick of "Gold foil"

 

[Thai St1ck]

In my time here i have acquired and smoked the following.

Compressed and;
No foil
Gold foil
Silver Foil
Blue Foil
Green Foil

Less compressed, bundled into salami sausage thai stick, wrapped in either,
Red string
Gold/Yellow string
Black string
Blue string

What does it all mean?
Many things, and who knows what is true but from what people tell me it goes a little something like this.

Branding

The compressed bricks is run by the military.
The colours indicate potentially but not for certain, the region it came from, the quality of the weed, early/late harvest which i associate with phenotypes.
I have had silver foil weed that was lime green and smelt like lemon kush and was a cracking smoke that my thai friend said was no good, and gold foil that was more brown and earthy tasting that didnt hit as nice that he believed to be far more superior, but i know what had a better effect for sure.
So that brings us back to branding...

Now the less compressed "Thai sticks" that are wrapped in string, that comes from smaller farms that are run by Police.
Once again the colours indicate potentially but not for certain, the region it came from, the quality of the weed, early/late harvest which i associate with phenotypes.

Now let's not even get started on good quality bud.
In the last few years with the laws and public mindset towards cannabis changing rapidly, more and more people are growing indoors.
But once again, id say 90% of them don't really know what they're doing.
They buy some seeds labeled Gorilla glue, or girl scout cookies or blue dream or whatever other "famous" strain there is, grow it badly, dry it improperly and still try to charge US dispensary prices for it.
Thailand is a place where people copy one another and claim it as their own, often thinking just because they watched something on youtube their experts, or they believe they do and they will never want to loose face when you tell them otherwise.

But yes, if you dont grow your own you can find something in most places if you know where to look.
Go to a reggae bar and you will definitely be able to score, but there is a high chance you will also be busted. I never visit those places if i am carrying anything on me. The boys either work with the police or the police or stationed up watching the place nearby or on cctv and will bust you.
So don't do that.

Rather you should talk to fellow expats and follow your gut feeling.

A true stoner will truly help you out or point you in the right direction.
A cunt will find a way to con you or worse, sell to you but grass you up to the police at the same time.

It's why i grow my own and never sell to anybody.

You dont want to be getting taken to the ATM by police and asked to empty your bank account to avoid doing jail time, blacklist and deportation.

Peace & Love
TS

 

[ComfortCreator]

In my time here i have acquired and smoked the following.

Compressed and;
No foil
Gold foil
Silver Foil
Blue Foil
Green Foil

Less compressed, bundled into salami sausage thai stick, wrapped in either,
Red string
Gold/Yellow string
Black string
Blue string

What does it all mean?
Many things, and who knows what is true but from what people tell me it goes a little something like this.

Branding

The compressed bricks is run by the military.
The colours indicate potentially but not for certain, the region it came from, the quality of the weed, early/late harvest which i associate with phenotypes.
I have had silver foil weed that was lime green and smelt like lemon kush and was a cracking smoke that my thai friend said was no good, and gold foil that was more brown and earthy tasting that didnt hit as nice that he believed to be far more superior, but i know what had a better effect for sure.
So that brings us back to branding...

Now the less compressed "Thai sticks" that are wrapped in string, that comes from smaller farms that are run by Police.
Once again the colours indicate potentially but not for certain, the region it came from, the quality of the weed, early/late harvest which i associate with phenotypes.

Now let's not even get started on good quality bud.
In the last few years with the laws and public mindset towards cannabis changing rapidly, more and more people are growing indoors.
But once again, id say 90% of them don't really know what they're doing.
They buy some seeds labeled Gorilla glue, or girl scout cookies or blue dream or whatever other "famous" strain there is, grow it badly, dry it improperly and still try to charge US dispensary prices for it.
Thailand is a place where people copy one another and claim it as their own, often thinking just because they watched something on youtube their experts, or they believe they do and they will never want to loose face when you tell them otherwise.

But yes, if you dont grow your own you can find something in most places if you know where to look.
Go to a reggae bar and you will definitely be able to score, but there is a high chance you will also be busted. I never visit those places if i am carrying anything on me. The boys either work with the police or the police or stationed up watching the place nearby or on cctv and will bust you.
So don't do that.

Rather you should talk to fellow expats and follow your gut feeling.

A true stoner will truly help you out or point you in the right direction.
A cunt will find a way to con you or worse, sell to you but grass you up to the police at the same time.

It's why i grow my own and never sell to anybody.

You dont want to be getting taken to the ATM by police and asked to empty your bank account to avoid doing jail time, blacklist and deportation.

Peace & Love
TS

Wow again. So much great info you answered the next 10 questions I would have had, lol!

So the simple missing market piece is a player that actually dries and cures using techniques for boutique quality vs tobacco style outdoor mass harvests.

Sounds fun and cool and a bit scary, a perfect stoned adventure. Thanks again for sharing, the color banding is absolutely brillant knowledge!

 

[Thai St1ck]

So i got myself one of those 3-in-1 meters that reads Moisture/PH/Light intensity.
Has two metal prongs that you jab into the soil.

pH of the compost after letting it sit for half an hour reads 6.5.

What locks out K Potassium?

Peace & Love
TS

 

[ComfortCreator]

So i got myself one of those 3-in-1 meters that reads Moisture/PH/Light intensity.
Has two metal prongs that you jab into the soil.

pH of the compost after letting it sit for half an hour reads 6.5.

What locks out K Potassium?

Peace & Love
TS

Well, 6.5ph even on a prong meter says you are fine in that regard. You should check your water supply too so you know what is going in.

Potassium is affected by an imbalance in Nitrogen (excess), and calcium can be too. Too much salt buildup can also affect it.

In your case though my guess is you simply didnt have enough K in the mix. About week 4 the demand for K goes up, and peaks around week 6. That is why I think you saw a deficiency at that almost exact timing. It was at peak requirement. Next time, just a bit more of a K input and it should be great.

 

[Thai St1ck]

Thing is, how accurate are those meters?
When you prod it in the arrow moves about a bit before slowly settling.
Brand is Spring, but in the states i think its called a Healthywiser Soil Meter.

I've always trusted nature by creating a rich and nutritious medium teeming with microbial life and mycorrhizal fungi and letting mother nature do the testing of pH for me and adjusting by itself. 555.

Your comment on excess nitrogen would make me ponder if thats the case here creating a lockout.

She was fed the seaweed & kelp alongside the guano since the beginning of flower.
Normally i would introduce the guano only around 3 weeks in.
She also received two doses of humic acid and bone meal 1-3-3, with the second dose being larger.

The seaweed and kelp is strong stuff.
Maybe this combo was too much.

Which leads me to this question,

Can a one of sudden spike of nitrogen lock out potassium but not show dark green clawed foliage?

Peace & Love
TS

 

[GreenestBasterd]

I’ve had a few dodgy encounters in those “reggae bars” mentioned above but that always seemed like part of the tourist experience.

Only once I felt like I was being set up, one of the 3 Thai guys running the bar was just sat there in a hammock fiddling on his phone and was the only one who didn’t smoke a massive joint I’d rolled.
Maybe it was mad paranoia from the bud, but I speedily finished my drink and told the ladies we should move on to another spot. I was sure they were going to bust in and take me to the Hilton!
To this day the Mrs hasn’t let me forget that bout of paranoia hahaha.