Crossing THC plant with CBD plant to get All-rounder

[Marty Time]

I live in Switzerland, and there are no seeds for sale here that are normal, they are all feminised.
I am growing Gelato 33 and Weding Cake, and take clones.
I also have CBD plants, Strawberry, a Swiss variety.

So, my problem is that the THC strain is way too strong for me to smoke in the mornings, and so I mix it with CBD.
Problem Solved!

BUT, what I want is to be able to cross THC weed with CBD weed to make a balanced plant.

I have no pollen, but at the Botanical Garden a few days ago they are growing Fedora 17 Hemp. Fedora 17 . It is full of seeds, and a few dropped into my pocket.

If/when I plant the Fedora seeds, I assume that there will be male and female plants.
My plan is to grow a few, then grow the males, get the pollen, and put it on the Gelato 33, so getting 'seeds'
These seeds I will grow, and ripen, and harvest, and see what happens.

My experience - I've grown for 35 years, I have 2 grow rooms, and an outdoor space
Have crossed weed before to get a more mold-resistant strain, took me about 6 years to get decent seeds, sadly covid put an end to that strain and all the genetics.

So, my question to the forum is...

Realistically, is it worth the effort of crossing the strains, getting all the F1 seeds, going through the whole process maybe 6 or 7 times, and then hoping that I can get a THC - CBD balanced plant in about 4 to 5 years ( maybe quicker, as I have 2 grow areas now ).

Is there an easy and reliable way to check the THC/CBD content of the plant without having to mature it and dry it and smoke it?
I know about Thin-Layer Chromatography test kits, but they are pricey for wanting to test all the F1 seeds that I will be growing.
I would like to be able to grow seedlings quickly, check their THC/CBD content quickly, without having to wait for them to ripen, etc.

What are the alternatives? Nothing illegal, please.
There are seeds available across the border from here, but I have no wish to do anything like that.
I also don't want to order them from US/Holland/where-ever.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Happy Growing!

 

[Rozgreenburn]

Welcome to RIU. Colloidal silver spray can reverse a plants sex on a single branch, then use that to make your cross. Good luck...

 

[xtsho]

You can cross strains but there is no assurance that you'll get a cross with the characteristics you want. You're going to have to test to determine what the levels of CBD/THC are.

I don't know anything about that particular hemp strain but I do know that they are using feminized hemp seeds here in America so you may or may not get males from that hemp strain. Some hemp is grown for seeds while some is grown for CBD which in that case they don't want males pollinating the flowers so they grow feminized hemp plants.

 

[Fluffy Butt]

You can cross strains but there is no assurance that you'll get a cross with the characteristics you want. You're going to have to test to determine what the levels of CBD/THC are.

I don't know anything about that particular hemp strain but I do know that they are using feminized hemp seeds here in America so you may or may not get males from that hemp strain. Some hemp is grown for seeds while some is grown for CBD which in that case they don't want males pollinating the flowers so they grow feminized hemp plants.

Some breeders even take it a step further, and breed feminized triploids, which are considered "seedless". Even if they get pollinated they won't produce seeds.

If you go the reversal route, I'd use a silver thiosulfate solution (STS) rather than colloidal silver. Seems to work better from what I've heard.

One other option you might have is to have someone ship you some pollen. Not sure on the laws there, but could be worth checking into.

Whichever route you go, there is a method for getting a rough estimate of the CBD content in the flowers by using lye, carbon, and isopropyl alcohol. You'll have to look up the procedure, but it should be very helpful in selecting for CBD content.

 

[Marty Time]

Welcome to RIU. Colloidal silver spray can reverse a plants sex on a single branch, then use that to make your cross. Good luck...

Thank you so much.
This is exactly what I needed.
A bump to the grey matter.

I remember vaguely reading about this a few years ago, and am looking into this atm.

 

[Marty Time]

You can cross strains but there is no assurance that you'll get a cross with the characteristics you want. You're going to have to test to determine what the levels of CBD/THC are.

I don't know anything about that particular hemp strain but I do know that they are using feminized hemp seeds here in America so you may or may not get males from that hemp strain. Some hemp is grown for seeds while some is grown for CBD which in that case they don't want males pollinating the flowers so they grow feminized hemp plants.

Thanks for the reply.

The first part - yup, I know it. I have crossed a few plants to try and get super-ganja, with some awesome success stories, but mostly abject failure.
I also grow and cross chilli peppers, so the amount of variations in the F crosses is known to me. Again some great success, but mostly just 'freaks'.

The second part - this is what I'm fearing, but...
The female plants are in the Botanical garden here, in exhibits about hemp manufacture and farming through the ages, and they are clearly huge cannabis sativa plants. They are all about 2.5 metres tall, and spindly, perfect for making fibres.
But here's the thing - all the buds are full of seeds. They are almost brown/black in color with the amount of seeds, so I assume that at some time during the summer they had male and female plants there, and removed the male plants at some point.

This makes me hopeful that the seeds will be viable 'normal' ones, and not feminised.
I've put a few in to soak now, so time will tell.

 

[Marty Time]

Some breeders even take it a step further, and breed feminized triploids, which are considered "seedless". Even if they get pollinated they won't produce seeds.

If you go the reversal route, I'd use a silver thiosulfate solution (STS) rather than colloidal silver. Seems to work better from what I've heard.

One other option you might have is to have someone ship you some pollen. Not sure on the laws there, but could be worth checking into.

Whichever route you go, there is a method for getting a rough estimate of the CBD content in the flowers by using lye, carbon, and isopropyl alcohol. You'll have to look up the procedure, but it should be very helpful in selecting for CBD content.

Thanks for the mentioning of silver thiosulfate solution.
Have never heard of it, but am googling frantically, and this also seems like an option.

I have thought about the shipping of pollen, but again, I'm not sure about the legality of it, and even if it is legal, if someone who shouldn't know suddenly knows then they won't have to think too long about why I might be wanting pollen...with the ensuing problems.

The CBD content checker is a new one on me too, so thanks for that. Will be testing that out soon.

 

[xtsho]

Applying Silver Nitrate & Sodium Thiosulfate Mixture for Fem Pollen

This is the mixture I plan to use (first time - feedback welcome) 0.1 grams Silver Nitrate + 100ml H2O 0.5 grams Sodium Thiosulfate + 100ml H2O + 500ml H2O Glass Jar For female pollen sacks- Fem Seeds (do not ingest these chemicals- wear nitrile(?) gloves when applying) My question is this...

rollitup.org

 

[xtsho]

Thanks for the reply.

The first part - yup, I know it. I have crossed a few plants to try and get super-ganja, with some awesome success stories, but mostly abject failure.
I also grow and cross chilli peppers, so the amount of variations in the F crosses is known to me. Again some great success, but mostly just 'freaks'.

The second part - this is what I'm fearing, but...
The female plants are in the Botanical garden here, in exhibits about hemp manufacture and farming through the ages, and they are clearly huge cannabis sativa plants. They are all about 2.5 metres tall, and spindly, perfect for making fibres.
But here's the thing - all the buds are full of seeds. They are almost brown/black in color with the amount of seeds, so I assume that at some time during the summer they had male and female plants there, and removed the male plants at some point.

This makes me hopeful that the seeds will be viable 'normal' ones, and not feminised.
I've put a few in to soak now, so time will tell.

I'm sure you're right that at one time there were males that pollinated them unless the plants were hermies. I highly doubt that anyone hand pollinated them with feminized pollen. My previous comment about feminized seeds is extremely unlikely and it's almost a certainty that those seeds you have are regular seeds so you'll hopefully find a male.

Good luck.

 

[Chunky Stool]

Why do you need "balanced plants"?

I blend THC & CBD weed all the time and it works great.

 

[Marty Time]

I'm sure you're right that at one time there were males that pollinated them unless the plants were hermies. I highly doubt that anyone hand pollinated them with feminized pollen. My previous comment about feminized seeds is extremely unlikely and it's almost a certainty that those seeds you have are regular seeds so you'll hopefully find a male.

Good luck.

Thanks for the good wishes.
I too am pretty sure that the plants were pollinated by males. The plants are about 5 metres tall, and full of seeds. Every bud is almost brown in color with seeds.

I will try with the traditional way of growing males, but I will also try this method with the colloidal silver spray.
I remember reading about how female seeds were produced, but dismissed it as "witchcraft" a few years ago, as that that time I had lots of seeds and plants, but now it looks like it's time to delve into Alchemy and Sorcery.

 

[Marty Time]

Why do you need "balanced plants"?

I blend THC & CBD weed all the time and it works great.

Agree totally that blending the plants is easy, and it works great. It's actually better than great, because I can program the buzz I get off a bowl almost perfectly now, depending on the mix.

A number of reasons though for wanting a balanced plant.

1) It's still not 100% legal to grow plants here. It's de-criminalised, and some regions of Switzerland allow 4 plants per person. Sadly our region does not, as yet, and so I have to grow - in theory - only 4 plants. At the moment I have 3 CBD and 2 THC on the balcony, and loads of cuttings indoors, and it would be nice to be able to reduce that to having 1 THC, 1 CBD and 2 balanced plants on the balcony.

2) I want to produce seeds, as keeping cuttings permanently growing restricts my travelling plans. This has not been a problem recently ( covid, etc ) as travel has been impossible, but we used to migrate to warmer climes from Switzerland during the winter for a couple of months at a time, and that requires seeds. The seeds therefore are important, not so much the balanced plant.

3) Winter is coming, and it gives me a "Project" to work on. Making my own strain is great fun also. I made a strain of mould-resistant plant here about 10 years ago, and it was fabulous. Also I cross-breed Chilli Peppers, and it's a fantastic hobby.

4) Because it's there.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

From how I see it, looking at the legal situation in CH, you would be putting yourself at significatly less risk if you did simply import the seeds you want instead of starting to breed plants. Breeding is fun, though, it should be commended that you want to try it.

Just producing seeds from female plants is not too difficult if you are ready to "self" a plant, that is, pollinate it with its own pollen. Use silver thiosulfate to reverse the sex of a branch on the plant, and then open pollinate it, or cut the branch just before it releases pollen, and then hand-pollinate. You can keep the male branch covered with a paper bag that has a small air hole at the top and is sealed at the bottom, to avoid accidental pollination.

Selfing a plant will give you plenty of viable seeds, but if the cultivar is not stabilized the results might be unpredictable.

There are threads here on RIU with detailed explanations on how to do that.

 

[Marty Time]

From how I see it, looking at the legal situation in CH, you would be putting yourself at significatly less risk if you did simply import the seeds you want instead of starting to breed plants. Breeding is fun, though, it should be commended that you want to try it.

Very good point, about the legal side of it.Thank you. Not something I'd thought about.
Mass producer of seeds sounds a lot worse then getting 10 regular seeds sent to me.
This is exactly why I thought I'd ask on here.
Brain-storming in a forum where people know their stuff, rather than on Reddit, for example.

Like you say though, breeding is fun.
I've just bought some colloidal silver, so will try that on a few of the smaller clones I have and see what happens.
I've also started to germinate the Industrial Hemp Seeds that I got from the Botanical Garden, so there's a few Routes I can take during the Winter.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

Very good point, about the legal side of it.Thank you. Not something I'd thought about.
Mass producer of seeds sounds a lot worse then getting 10 regular seeds sent to me.

You have to know, the breeders (seed shops) ship very discreetly. They've been doing that for decades, and most of the countries they sell to do not allow the importing of Cannabis seeds. If shipping their product was a big problem they would have long gone out of business.

Often the shops even accept cash payment (you send them money in an envelope).

The seeds are practically undetectable for customs. The shops package them in a very inconspicuous way (could be a hand-written envelope with regular postage stamps). Some shops even use special shipping routes, so fewer packages will get "lost".
So it is rather unlikely that your shipment will go missing, or that you will end up on some kind of "list". At the end of the day, anybody could have sent the package to your address, it does not prove anything.

You have to consider how many gazillions of packages and letters go through customs every day, and they have bigger fish to fry than looking for Cannabis seeds. I think the only realistic way it gets detected is by routine inspection of random envelopes.

Obviously, if you're super paranoid you will not order seeds online. Maybe you can go through another person who doesn't mind (have them order it on your behalf).

I've just bought some colloidal silver, so will try that on a few of the smaller clones I have and see what happens.

From what you read here, the colloidal silver you can buy is too weak, and often does not work. You can make it yourself with a pair of silver wire and a few 9V batteries (or laptop power supply).

STS (silver thiosulfate) works much better, and is very easy to make (the chemicals are easy to get, and they're not dangerous). You need two different chemicals (powders), mix each into distilled water, and there you have your two components to make more than enough STS than you'll need. Will probably cost you less than 20 CHF. Here's a video demonstrating it:

Spoiler

 

[conor c]

I think u would be better served getting a landrace with cbd in its makeup in reg seed form to make the cross vs hemp i got family in Switzerland and seeds aint all that hard to get plus even tho its not 100% legal its a slap on the wrist vs most places unless your doing alot of course

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

AceSeeds have a stabilized CBD strain with close to zero THC. It's called "CBD #1". It should make for a great breeding plant. They only sell fem seeds, but you could self them or use the plant as the mother.

They also sell the "Hokkaido" landrace which comes in three phenotypes, two of which are CBD only. If you order enough you'll even get 10 of those seeds for free with the order.

I haven't grown their CBD #1 yet, but will definitely try it. Looks like an amazing CBD-only strain.

 

[JWEEZY864]

Hey bud. I’m in the US and can send you links to some really good CBD hemp breeders and vendors if you’d like to just look around and see what all is available. I know of a few vendors that sell pollen also if you choose to go that route. I personally think if you have the THC mothers already growing and they’re the mothers you want to breed with then I’d just go for the pollen, also the quickest and easiest way to go about it. I’d also think that buying pollen would be the safest option for you too. Even if for some crazy slim chance that customs may seize your package, I’d very seriously doubt they’d go through the trouble to determine what kind of pollen it is lol. I’ve dealt with anxiety attacks for about 20 years and THC always amplified it. Found out about CBD hemp flower last January and I haven’t smoked THC bud since lol. I’m applying for a state growers permit in 2021 and praying I get it. Planning on doing small batch indoor for flower, like 15-20 plants at the most, and I’ve been putting together a nice little collection of hemp strains for the past year and a half. The genetics have made HUGE strides since I started smoking CBD flower last January and there’s some really nice genetics around now. Just let me know if you want the site links and I’ll get them to you.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

Post the links here.

 

[Bignutes]

Original sensible seeds has cannaboom (same genetics as Ringo’s Gift) and canna fuel as cbd only, very reputable. Seed city is also very reputable and a huge selection of 1:1 strains.