canndo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and don't forget, the same people who insisted we all pay for a wall to "keep the foreigners out" won't lift a finger to keep the virus out.
VAX or FIRED
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canndo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, see, reasonable folk learn from their mistakes, the wise learn from the mistakes of others.
One would have thought that just one of those poor unfortunates interviewed in icu "can I get the vaccine now?" Types would be enough to signal to the anti vaxx folk that maybe they are literally picking the wrong hill to die on.
Freeeedoom
Hiddengems
Well-Known Member
It's not the job of the government to protect people from themselves.
I have never in my life had to show proof of vaccination for work, And I never will.
I had a measles shot that kept me from getting measles, without a booster every 6 months for 40+ years. The first generation Covid vaccines are not very good at preventing infection.
Eventually Covid will turn into another cold. But because of the precedent set by Covid, I'm sure we'll have lockdowns during seasonal flu.
The world isn't safe. You'll never get up with a 0% chance of dying. Trying to control every bad thing in life with government wether it be medical care or speech won't end well.
I have never in my life had to show proof of vaccination for work, And I never will.
I had a measles shot that kept me from getting measles, without a booster every 6 months for 40+ years. The first generation Covid vaccines are not very good at preventing infection.
Eventually Covid will turn into another cold. But because of the precedent set by Covid, I'm sure we'll have lockdowns during seasonal flu.
The world isn't safe. You'll never get up with a 0% chance of dying. Trying to control every bad thing in life with government wether it be medical care or speech won't end well.
Oh man, I bet you've been furious about flu vaccines for decades. I had no idea this was all a semantics problem.
printer
Well-Known Member
It is the job of government to be on the watch for threats to the country and mitigate them as best as possible. Covid will (hopefully) recede. But given the damage it has done with us trying to fight it I would not want to be in a society which just let it run rampant (going by your complaints). Given that we are only into this for a couple of years and vaccines regularly take 10-20 years to develop, that is if we get one, I think we are doing not bad with the vaccines we have now.
Now seeing that the virus is world-wide and even jumps to animals it is going to be here for a long while. Lot of chances for mutation. What is your great solution?
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
Your first sentence is incorrect. That is a primary purpose of government. That is why “small government” Republicans are, at day’s end, enemies of the people.
Hiddengems
Well-Known Member
In the USA it's the job of the government to uphold the rights of the individual. "Common good isn't even in the bill of rights.
printer
Well-Known Member
Government goes way back further than the bill of rights. What gives the government the right to rule? What are the responsibilities of a government? You need to do some learning.
Riddick65
Member
https://corg.iu.edu/programs/hamilton-views/comments-on-congress/What Do We Mean When We Talk About the Common Good.html
You don't know as much about the government, or the intentions of it's framers, as you think you do.
canndo
Well-Known Member
"Provide for the general welfare" happens to include defending one person from the deeds or neglect of another. Vaccines are not for the vaccinated, they are for the community. The problem with the way things currently are is that people can't comprehend the concept of community.
Yet that community is intrinsic to our individual survival, ask the families of the 800,000 dead and countless other long haulers with permanent organ damage.
Oh, but the mere act of asking them anything at all exemplifies that very concept.
printer
Well-Known Member
Every government has specific roles and duties that it carries on a daily basis. But do you know the explicit functions of government? Well, if you don’t know, you’re about to find out.
Every day, state and federal government work to ensure peace and stability in their jurisdictions. Here are the primary functions of government.
1. Protect the Natural Rights
The primary functions of government are to protect the basic human rights which include right to life, liberty and to possess property. The idea of natural rights is because every person deserves to enjoy these rights. It is assumed that people are born with these rights and that they shouldn’t be taken away from them without their agreement.
If the government takes any of these rights, you have the liberty to take your complaints to court. Hire an attorney to improve your chances of winning the case. Well, the good thing is, there were over 1,268,011 licensed lawyers in 2012 alone. The number can only be higher now. Check the reputation and experience of an attorney before hiring the one for your case.
2. Defend Against External Enemies
War across nations has been a constant condition since the beginning of civilization.
According to the federal laws and constitution, the government has a responsibility to ensure peace within its borders. It should also keep external aggressors at bay.
3. Managing Economic Conditions
The modern government has a duty to fight poverty and improve the quality of life of its citizens. In order to achieve this, the government must create a conducive environment for material prosperity and economic growth.
In the United States, economic policy makers leave the decision to private markets. Here individual choice, exchange, and competition are presumed to lead a growing economy. However, even the free markets require state regulations, in the form of consumer protection, enforceable property rights, and health and safety laws to work fairly and efficiently.
4. Redistribution of Income and Resources
Governments should ensure economic pie grows larger to redistribute fruits of prosperity. The government does this by taxing wealthier people and transferring the income to different categories of people who are in need of these services.
Therefore, the modern government can be characterized as welfare states. Therefore, the functions of government are to not only resources from wealthier to poorer individuals. They also redistribute resources from the young to disabled, socially challenged and the aged. Further, the wealthier governments subsidize food, housing, pension, and healthcare to the poor.
5. Provide Public or Utility Goods
Among the many functions of government is to provide public goods. In most cases, these are services that the private sector cannot provide or they can provide in an unfair or inefficient manner. National security is one of these services. For example, can the private market offer security services? Yes, the government can outsource military security. The government and wealthy individuals can hire private mercenaries to protect them.
According to historic data, relying on mercenaries to protect populations is a risky affair. Without federal statutes to govern their operations, the mercenaries can turn on the governments that hired them. In the end, the mercenaries can injure or harm the very people they are supposed to protect. Because of this, responsible governments develop state legislation to monopolize national security. The same applies for interstate highways, postal services and clean air. As you’ll note, certain goods are best offered by the federal or state governments.
6. Prevent Any Externality
An externality is an indirect cost or benefit occurring from an activity that impacts your society. In most cases, externalities affect people who are not participants in an event or activity. The impact can either be negative or positive.
For example, factories can produce air pollution that may contaminate city water’s supply or affect the quality of air that people breathe. Positive externalities include where a society and not students benefit more from a learned population. The government must develop and implement state laws and regulations on undesirable externalities. Other than being physical as in the case of pollution, externalities can also be aesthetic or psychological. For example, a liquor store located near a school is an externality. The government strives to prevent them via zoning state laws.
Every day, state and federal government work to ensure peace and stability in their jurisdictions. Here are the primary functions of government.
1. Protect the Natural Rights
The primary functions of government are to protect the basic human rights which include right to life, liberty and to possess property. The idea of natural rights is because every person deserves to enjoy these rights. It is assumed that people are born with these rights and that they shouldn’t be taken away from them without their agreement.
If the government takes any of these rights, you have the liberty to take your complaints to court. Hire an attorney to improve your chances of winning the case. Well, the good thing is, there were over 1,268,011 licensed lawyers in 2012 alone. The number can only be higher now. Check the reputation and experience of an attorney before hiring the one for your case.
2. Defend Against External Enemies
War across nations has been a constant condition since the beginning of civilization.
According to the federal laws and constitution, the government has a responsibility to ensure peace within its borders. It should also keep external aggressors at bay.
3. Managing Economic Conditions
The modern government has a duty to fight poverty and improve the quality of life of its citizens. In order to achieve this, the government must create a conducive environment for material prosperity and economic growth.
In the United States, economic policy makers leave the decision to private markets. Here individual choice, exchange, and competition are presumed to lead a growing economy. However, even the free markets require state regulations, in the form of consumer protection, enforceable property rights, and health and safety laws to work fairly and efficiently.
4. Redistribution of Income and Resources
Governments should ensure economic pie grows larger to redistribute fruits of prosperity. The government does this by taxing wealthier people and transferring the income to different categories of people who are in need of these services.
Therefore, the modern government can be characterized as welfare states. Therefore, the functions of government are to not only resources from wealthier to poorer individuals. They also redistribute resources from the young to disabled, socially challenged and the aged. Further, the wealthier governments subsidize food, housing, pension, and healthcare to the poor.
5. Provide Public or Utility Goods
Among the many functions of government is to provide public goods. In most cases, these are services that the private sector cannot provide or they can provide in an unfair or inefficient manner. National security is one of these services. For example, can the private market offer security services? Yes, the government can outsource military security. The government and wealthy individuals can hire private mercenaries to protect them.
According to historic data, relying on mercenaries to protect populations is a risky affair. Without federal statutes to govern their operations, the mercenaries can turn on the governments that hired them. In the end, the mercenaries can injure or harm the very people they are supposed to protect. Because of this, responsible governments develop state legislation to monopolize national security. The same applies for interstate highways, postal services and clean air. As you’ll note, certain goods are best offered by the federal or state governments.
6. Prevent Any Externality
An externality is an indirect cost or benefit occurring from an activity that impacts your society. In most cases, externalities affect people who are not participants in an event or activity. The impact can either be negative or positive.
For example, factories can produce air pollution that may contaminate city water’s supply or affect the quality of air that people breathe. Positive externalities include where a society and not students benefit more from a learned population. The government must develop and implement state laws and regulations on undesirable externalities. Other than being physical as in the case of pollution, externalities can also be aesthetic or psychological. For example, a liquor store located near a school is an externality. The government strives to prevent them via zoning state laws.
Hiddengems
Well-Known Member
The USA was founded on individualism.
Hiddengems
Well-Known Member
It doesn't say that anywhere in the bill of rights.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment III
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Amendment VII
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
A quarter-millennium ago. Individualism today is not a viable model. Libertarians and small-government doctrinaires have failed to account for the industrial and technological revolutions. If the founders lived today, their solutions would acknowledge the way things are now.
Hiddengems
Well-Known Member
The USA was unique in that its foundation is individual liberty, not collectivism, or a king.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
So the 'United' portion is just ignored?
Anyways, where is this lockdown you spoke of?
Herb & Suds
Well-Known Member
printer
Well-Known Member
Somolia is my go-to.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Tell us how race-based chattel slavery can be part of a foundation that is individual liberty.
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