Crisis in the Ukraine

[Indie]

That 4 year Head start that Trump gave them might be too much to pass up for the dictators of the planet...........


Im just happy that Biden and the Democrats were elected so that we have as level of a head as possible in office to deal with this mess.

lol

 

[hanimmal]

lol

Is the three letter response to the 4 year head start or that Biden as POTUS is far better for our nation in every way?

Just going off the brilliant response you felt the need to do and your flag in your avatar, and your 2007 account with less than a hundred posts which screams sock puppet, I am guessing you are one of these 'patriots' that are ok with the fact that the data that Trump got from the RNC was handed over to the Russian military to help their attack on American citizens.

But who knows.

 

[Jimdamick]

I was talking about the planes you fucking retard.

Don't play with fire Herr Red, or your family will get burnt.

Hey @Harrekin, your Irish?/Cool
Where in Eire are you?
My family is from Leenane/Clifden in Galway
PM me if you woul like, I'll tell you about my Irish escapades

Here is my family in Ulster & on the Liffey in Dublin

 

[Jimdamick]

Patton had it right, we should never have stopped in Germany, just keep on going all the way to Moscow.

It would have been a cake walk then & we wouldn't have to have gone thru all the shit that the USSR/Russia put us through.

Nuke 'em & get it over with and while we're at it, plant one of these on Putins dacha

 

[CatHedral]

Patton had it right, we should never have stopped in Germany, just keep on going all the way to Moscow.

It would have been a cake walk then & we wouldn't have to have gone thru all the shit that the USSR/Russia put us through.

Nuke 'em & get it over with and while we're at it, plant one of these on Putins dacha

I disagree. Allied forces were exhausted, and there were a lot of Russians in their excellent T-34s. And our air arm didn’t have the legs.

It would be fun to model what one battalion of B-52s loaded with today’s smart conventional munitions could do to a Soviet army group on the move.

 

[printer]

I disagree. Allied forces were exhausted, and there were a lot of Russians in their excellent T-34s. And our air arm didn’t have the legs.

It would be fun to model what one battalion of B-52s loaded with today’s smart conventional munitions could do to a Soviet army group on the move.

The Russians have air defences second to none. A lot of B-52's will hit the ground.

 

[CatHedral]

The Russians have air defences second to none. A lot of B-52's will hit the ground.

I wasn’t clear. I meant against a 1945 Soviet army group. The Ilyushin 2 was a good ship, but a Buff would not be bothered.

 

[Jimdamick]

The Russians have air defences second to none. A lot of B-52's will hit the ground.

You get all the NATO nations to attack Russia on all fronts simultaneously.
Russia has most of it's troops on the Ukrainian border now & they'll never be able to defend it's entire border.
Without nukes, their fucked.
And the good old USA can lead the charge!!!!!
Hi Ho Silver!!!!!

 

[printer]

You get all the NATO nations to attack Russia on all fronts simultaneously.
Russia has most of it's troops on the Ukrainian border now & they'll never be able to defend it's entire border.
Without nukes, their fucked.
And the good old USA can lead the charge!!!!!
Hi Ho Silver!!!!!




View attachment 5039944

Even with all of Nato joining in their 400 missiles would take down the B52's. It is a shame they have the nukes and Ukraine did not keep some. But hey, the Ukrainians got Crimea for them.

 

[Jimdamick]

Russia planning massive military offensive against Ukraine involving 175,000 troops, U.S. intelligence warns (msn.com)

As tensions mount between Washington and Moscow over a potential Russian invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence has found the Kremlin is planning a multi-front offensive as soon as early next year involving up to 175,000 troops, according to U.S. officials and an intelligence document obtained by The Washington Post.

The Kremlin has been moving troops toward the border with Ukraine while demanding Washington guarantee that Ukraine will not join NATO and that the alliance will refrain from certain military activities in and around Ukrainian territory. The crisis has provoked fears of a renewed war on European soil and comes ahead of a planned virtual meeting next week between President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin

.“The Russian plans call for a military offensive against Ukraine as soon as early 2022 with a scale of forces twice what we saw this past spring during Russia’s snap exercise near Ukraine’s borders,” said an administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive information. “The plans involve extensive movement of 100 battalion tactical groups with an estimated 175,000 personnel, along with armor, artillery and equipment.”

The unclassified U.S. intelligence document obtained by The Post, which includes satellite photos, shows Russian forces massing in four locations. Currently, 50 battlefield tactical groups are deployed, along with “newly arrived” tanks and artillery, according to the document.

While Ukrainian assessments have said Russia has approximately 94,000 troops near the border, the U.S. map puts the number at 70,000 — but it predicts a buildup to as many as 175,000 and describes extensive movement of battalion tactical groups to and from the border “to obfuscate intentions and to create uncertainty.”

The U.S. analysis of Russia’s plans is based in part on satellite images that “show newly arrived units at various locations along the Ukrainian border over the last month,” the official said.

I love this

"The Kremlin has been moving troops toward the border with Ukraine while demanding Washington guarantee that Ukraine will not join NATO and that the alliance will refrain from certain military activities in and around Ukrainian territory."

What?

I hope Biden tells Putin to go fuck himself, & what Ukraine does is it's own fucking business & by the way, I gave the 82nd & the 101st Airborne off for a while (we'll call when we need them) They're all good boys & girls & could use a rest & you know what? They all have relatives in Ukraine, all 180.000 of them and they are all going there to visit (I told them they should bring along they're weapons & give them a good scrubbing)

Fuck Putin

Learn from history & don't let facism crawl out from it's hole & if it pokes it's fucking head it out, stomp the shit out of it, immediately
No more fucking Franco's or fucking Mussolini's or fucking Hitler's, all of which it seems Putin emulates.
Nato should call for war games and mass troops at every access point into Russia & wait.
Putin moves, attack.
That asshole has been getting away with shit for too long & the EU & the US should stand up and tell/show Putin, you start any shit, we WILL fuck you up & finsh it.
That I think he'll understand.

.

 

[CatHedral]

As a lifelong Occiputian I’m getting really tired of those damned facists.

They call themselves that, and yet the inscribed dagger usually ends up in some innocent’s back.

You know where I’d fuck a fascist?! RIGHT IN THE, oh wait, they’re also assoritarians. I got options.

Replace the fourth word with a certain surname. Godforsaken facists.

 

[schuylaar]

Nice to get a read out..God it feels good to have that part of normalcy back.

 

[hanimmal]

https://apnews.com/article/biden-putin-meeting-russia-ukraine-448047649195

WASHINGTON (AP) – Face to face for over two hours, President Joe Biden and Russia’s Vladimir Putin squared off in a secure video call Tuesday as the U.S. president put Moscow on notice that an invasion of Ukraine would bring enormous harm to the Russian economy.With tens of thousands of Russian troops massed on the Ukraine border, the highly anticipated call between the two leaders came amid growing worries by the U.S. and Western allies about Russia’s threat to its neighbor.

Putin, for his part, came into the meeting seeking guarantees from Biden that the NATO military alliance will never expand to include Ukraine, which has long sought membership. The Americans and their NATO allies said that request was a non-starter.

There appeared to be no immediate breakthroughs to ease tensions on the Ukraine question, as the U.S. emphasized a need for diplomacy and de-escalation, and issued stern threats to Russia on the consequences of an invasion.

Biden “told President Putin directly that if Russia further invades Ukraine, the United States and our European allies would respond with strong economic measures,” U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said after the call.

He added that Biden said the U.S. would also “provide additional defensive material to the Ukrainians … and we would fortify our NATO allies on the eastern flank with additional capabilities in response to such an escalation.”

That could include additional deployments of U.S. troops to eastern European NATO allies, the adviser said.

A top U.S. envoy, Victoria Nuland, said a Russian invasion of Ukraine also would jeopardize a controversial pipeline between Russia and Germany. She told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Tuesday that if Russia invaded, “our expectation is that the pipeline will be suspended.”

Putin’s foreign affairs adviser Yuri Ushakov dismissed the sanctions threat during a conference call with reporters. “While the U.S. president talked about possible sanctions, our president emphasized what Russia needs,” Ushakov said, adding that “sanctions aren’t something new, they have been in place for a long time and will not have any effect.”

He described the presidents’ video conference as “candid and businesslike,” adding that they also exchanged occasional jokes.

In a brief snippet broadcast by Russia state television, the two leaders offered friendly greetings to each other.

“I welcome you, Mr. President,” Putin said, speaking with a Russian flag behind him and a video monitor showing Biden in front of him.

“Good to see you again!” Biden replied with a chuckle. He noted Putin’s absence from the recent Group of 20 summit in Rome – Putin took park by video link because of concerns about COVID-19 – and said, “I hope next time we meet to do it in person.”

At the White House, Sullivan said, “It was a useful meeting,” allowing Biden to lay out in candid terms where the US stands.

As the U.S. and Russian presidents conferred, Ukraine grew only more anxious about the tens of thousands of Russia troops that have been deployed near its border. Ukrainian officials charged Russia had further escalated the smoldering crisis by sending tanks and snipers to war-torn eastern Ukraine to “provoke return fire” and lay a pretext for a potential invasion.

U.S. intelligence officials have not been able to independently verify that accusation, according to an administration official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive matter. But the official said that the White House has directly raised concerns with the Russians about “resorting to their old playbook” by trying to provoke the Ukrainians.

The Kremlin, in a post-call readout, said, “Putin emphasized that it’s wrong to put the responsibility on Russia, since it is NATO that has been making dangerous attempts to expand its presence on the Ukrainian territory and has been expanding its military potential near Russian borders.”

The Russian leader also proposed to lift all mutual restrictions on diplomatic missions and help normalize other aspects of bilateral relations, the Kremlin said. Sullivan said the leaders would direct their staffs to continue negotiations on that.

The leader-to-leader conversation — Biden speaking from the White House Situation Room, Putin from his residence in Sochi —was one of the most important of Biden’s presidency and came at a perilous time. U.S. intelligence officials have determined that Russia has massed 70,000 troops near the Ukraine border and has made preparations for a possible invasionearly next year.

Sullivan said the U.S. believes that Putin has not yet made a final decision to invade.

Biden was vice president in 2014 when Russian troops marched into the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea and annexed the territory from Ukraine. Aides say the Crimea episode — one of the darker moments for President Barack Obama on the international stage — looms large as Biden looks at the smoldering current crisis.

Politically in Washington, Republicans are framing this moment as a key test of Biden’s leadership on the global stage. Biden vowed as a candidate to reassert American leadershipafter President Donald Trump’s emphasis on an “America first” foreign policy. But Republicans say he’s been ineffective in slowing Iran’s march toward becoming a nuclear power and has done too little to counter autocratic leaders including China’s Xi Jinping and Putin.“

Fellow authoritarians in Beijing and Tehran will be watching how the free world responds,” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said from the Senate floor before the Biden-Putin meeting.

Sullivan said Biden and Putin had a “good discussion on the Iran issue” and called it an area where the two countries could cooperate.

“The more Iran demonstrates a lack of seriousness at the negotiating table,” the more there will be a sense of unity among the U.S. and the parties to the 2015 nuclear accord including Russia and the European Union, he said.

Trump, who showed unusual deference to Putin during his presidency, said in a statement that “Vladimir Putin looks at our pathetic surrender in Afghanistan, leaving behind dead Soldiers, American citizens, and $85 billion worth of Military equipment. He then looks at Biden. He is not worried!”

Ahead of the Putin call, Biden on Monday spoke with leaders of the United Kingdom, France, Germany and Italy to coordinate messaging and potential sanctions. He also to spoke with them again following his call to brief them out the outcome. Biden is also expected to speak with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Thursday.

Putin apparently sees the current situation as a moment to readjust the power dynamic of the U.S.-Russia relationship, analysts agree.

Beyond Ukraine, there are plenty of other thorny issues on the table, including cyberattacks and human rights. Before the call, Kremlin spokesman Peskov said U.S.-Russian relations are overall in “a rather dire state.”

“Russia has never planned to attack anyone,” Peskov said. He characterized the Biden-Putin call as a “working conversation during a very difficult period,” when “escalation of tensions in Europe is off the scale, extraordinary.”

 

[hanimmal]

https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-moscow-2a3c3d0bf3834fe2e566f8aca57b57a1

MOSCOW (AP) — The Russian president on Tuesday reiterated his demand for guarantees from the U.S. and its allies that NATO will not expand eastwards, blaming the West for “tensions that are building up in Europe.”

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s speech at a meeting with Russia’s top military brass came just days after Moscow submitted draft security documents demanding that NATO deny membership to Ukraine and other former Soviet countries and roll back the alliance’s military deployments in Central and Eastern Europe.

The demands — contained in a proposed Russia-U.S. security treaty and a security agreement between Moscow and NATO — were drafted amid soaring tensions over a Russian troop buildup near Ukraine that has stoked fears of a possible invasion. Russia has denied it has plans to attack its neighbor but pressed for legal guarantees that would rule out NATO expansion and weapons deployment there.

Putin charged Tuesday that if U.S. and NATO missile systems appear in Ukraine, it will take those missiles only minutes to reach Moscow.

“For us, it is the most serious challenge — a challenge to our security,” he said, adding that this is why the Kremlin needs “long-term, legally binding guarantees” from the West, as opposed to “verbal assurances, words and promises” that Moscow can’t trust.

Putin noted that NATO has expanded eastward since the late 1990s while giving assurances that Russia’s worries were groundless.

“What is happening now, tensions that are building up in Europe, is their (U.S. and NATO’s) fault every step of the way,” the Russian leader said. “Russia has been forced to respond at every step. The situation kept worsening and worsening, deteriorating and deteriorating. And here we are today, in a situation when we’re forced to resolve it somehow.”

Russia’s relations with the U.S. sank to post-Cold War lows after it annexed the Crimean Peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 and backed a separatist insurgency in eastern Ukraine that still controls territory there. Tensions reignited in recent weeks after Moscow massed tens of thousands of troops near Ukraine’s border.

Putin has pressed the West for guarantees that NATO will not expand to Ukraine or deploy its forces there and raised the issue during a video call with U.S. President Joe Biden two weeks ago.

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu charged Tuesday that more than 120 staff of U.S. private military companies are currently operating in two villages in war-torn eastern Ukraine, training Ukrainian troops and setting up firing positions in residential buildings and different facilities.

Putin said the U.S. “should understand we have nowhere to retreat.”

“What they are now trying to do and plan to do at Ukraine’s territory, it’s not thousands of kilometers away, it’s happening right at the doorstep of our house,” he said.

Putin added that Moscow hopeds “constructive, meaningful talks with a visible end result — and within a certain time frame — that would ensure equal security for all.”

“Armed conflicts, bloodshed is not our choice, and we don’t want such developments. We want to resolve issues by political and diplomatic means,” Putin said.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Karen Donfried, the top U.S. diplomat for Europe, said at a briefing Tuesday that Washington is “prepared to discuss those proposals that Russia put on the table.”

“There are some things we’re prepared to work on, and we do believe there is merit in having discussion,” Donfried told reporters after a visit to Kyiv, Moscow and Brussels.

“There are other things in those documents that the Russians know will be unacceptable,” she added, without specifying which ones.

Donfried said bilateral U.S.-Russia meetings are likely to happen in January, and talks within NATO-Russia Council, as well as the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, are likely to see movement in January as well.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said Tuesday that he intends to call a new meeting of the NATO-Russia Council as soon as possible in the New Year.

“Any dialogue with Russia needs to be based on the core principles of European security and to address NATO’s concerns about Russia’s actions. And it needs to take place in consultation with NATO’s European partners, including with Ukraine,” Stoltenberg said.

On Tuesday evening, Putin talked about Russia’s proposals in phone calls with French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz.

According to readouts released by the Kremlin, Putin informed Macron about Moscow’s “diplomatic efforts on the subject,” and gave Scholz “detailed comments” on the drafts Russia-U.S. security treaty and a security agreement between Russia and NATO submitted last week.

In the conversation with Scholz, “hope was expressed that serious negotiations would be organized on all the issues raised by” Moscow, the readout said.

The conflict in eastern Ukraine was also discussed in both phone calls, with Putin claiming that Kyiv was reluctant to implement the Minsk agreements — a peace deal brokered by France and Germany in 2015 that helped end large-scale hostilities in the region.

Efforts to reach a political settlement of the Ukraine conflict, which has killed more than 14,000 people, have failed, however, and sporadic skirmishes have continued along the tense line of contact.

 

[Jimdamick]

Read this
Russian Citizens Are Now Being Prepped for Nuclear War (msn.com)
I remember being in the 3rd grade in 1963 & we had a bomb shelter in our school & were trained to get under our desks (not for a shooter) if you saw a flash in the sky above NYC. (clear day you could see it across Long Island sound)
I thought it was comical
This isn't
Wars have been started for less & Putin is a madman with a nuclear arsenal & that to say the least is.troubling.
He's going do what he says he will do, he's that fucking crazy, there is no opposition in Russia & he will not back down.
It's not in his nature.
This should be interesting

 

[ttystikk]

Wars have been started for less & Putin is a madman with a nuclear arsenal & that to say the least is.troubling.
He's going do what he says he will do, he's that fucking crazy, there is no opposition in Russia & he will not back down.
It's not in his nature.

Russia isn't full of madmen; the United States is.

Putin isn't crazy; America is BY FAR history's most powerful military, and our foreign policy is run by the likes of Lockheed Martin and Halliburton.

The West promised Gorbachev that NATO would not expand eastward and we broke that promise over and over.

Russia doesn't sign treaties and then break them: that's America's specialty.

Russia doesn't have 900 military bases scattered around the world, starting wars on 3 continents: America has done that again and again.

You have been listening to the Propaganda.

Russia is justifiably terrified of US. The question to ask yourself is why?

 

[schuylaar]

Read this
Russian Citizens Are Now Being Prepped for Nuclear War (msn.com)
I remember being in the 3rd grade in 1963 & we had a bomb shelter in our school & were trained to get under our desks (not for a shooter) if you saw a flash in the sky above NYC. (clear day you could see it across Long Island sound)
I thought it was comical
This isn't
Wars have been started for less & Putin is a madman with a nuclear arsenal & that to say the least is.troubling.
He's going do what he says he will do, he's that fucking crazy, there is no opposition in Russia & he will not back down.
It's not in his nature.
This should be interesting

preparation is futile; this is 2021 not 1951; also China might not be BFFs over this. Putin's playbook is well known; he will withdraw when something else is going on in the world like the Olympics for cover..i guess he hates egg on his face.

 

[ttystikk]

Another perspective.

 

[hanimmal]

Russia isn't full of madmen; the United States is.

Putin isn't crazy; America is BY FAR history's most powerful military, and our foreign policy is run by the likes of Lockheed Martin and Halliburton.

The West promised Gorbachev that NATO would not expand eastward and we broke that promise over and over.

Russia doesn't sign treaties and then break them: that's America's specialty.

Russia doesn't have 900 military bases scattered around the world, starting wars on 3 continents: America has done that again and again.

You have been listening to the Propaganda.

Russia is justifiably terrified of US. The question to ask yourself is why?

I would start with the fact that Russia is attacking our citizens.

The NATO thing looks like more Russian propaganda to me, so I looked, and now it just screams pretext for them to do whatever Putin wants.

https://watermark.silverchair.com/

 

[ttystikk]

I would start with the fact that Russia is attacking our citizens.

The NATO thing looks like more Russian propaganda to me, so I looked, and now it just screams pretext for them to do whatever Putin wants.

https://watermark.silverchair.com/View attachment 5052293View attachment 5052294

Wait- Russia is attacking Americans? Where?

In the last teleconference, Putin got everything he wanted, in large part because his demands were reasonable; let us never forget that America has been OVER THERE, fucking with THEM and not the other way around for most of a century.

Putin wants peace in Ukraine; the Ukrainian Nazis (look them up, that's exactly what they call themselves) are the belligerents. Putin wants a buffer between Russia and NATO because NATO has proven itself to be aggressive and untrustworthy. That's why things will stay as they are in eastern Ukraine.

The Ukraine will not become part of NATO because they're by far the most corrupt country in Europe and because it would be a trigger for war with Russia, a war Russia is very much prepared to fight and win decisively. I repeat, they don't want a fight; they want trade, including the Nordstream II pipeline, which Europe also wants.

Watch the video I posted. Yes, it's long but it covers a lot of ground from history to players to goals and risks.