Will You Take The Vaccine?

[Fogdog]

It’s not defined as a contradiction as that would imply that it went against theory, it is simply an unexpected finding which needs more scientific exploration with new studies.
You are citing opinion (albeit from a respected expert) in favour of research, the expert you mention would favour the research over his own opinion, as is the scientific method.

an opinion from a novice like myself on this subject is not worth much. An opinion from the Director of the US NIH is worth more. I'll listen to him. He didn't say anything that was not true. Maybe I did. Time will tell.

Agree that reasons for the boost in protection after the third shot are speculative at this time. I don't think anybody is talking about quashing research into why people were protected from infection by omicron after the third shot and not so much from just two.

Still, though, this is fairly convincing and came from the same bulletin by the Director of the NIH:

 

[printer]

"Omicron is not much more than the Flu"

COVID-19 hospitalizations in Manitoba increase 51.1 per cent over the previous week; 19 new COVID-19 deaths since Friday
More than 80 Manitobans were hospitalized with COVID-19 over the weekend.

According to the provincial COVID-19 dashboard, as of Monday, there were 378 people in hospital with COVID-19 – an increase of 81 patients compared to the 297 people hospitalized as of Friday.

Of the current hospitalizations, the province says 341 people have active cases. There are 39 people in the intensive care unit with COVID-19 – all but one have active cases. The province pointed out that hospitalizations increased by 51.1 per cent last week, compared to the week before.



The province also reported 19 new deaths since the last update on Friday. This brings the total number of deaths to 1,427. A number of people in their 20s and 30s were among the deaths reported. The deaths of a woman in her 30s and a man in his 20s – both from Winnipeg – were reported on Saturday, and the death of a man in his 20s from the Southern Health region was reported on Monday.

Two deaths, both reported on Saturday concerning a woman in her 80s from the Interlake-Eastern health region and a woman in her 50s from the Southern health region, have been linked to unspecified variants of concern.

The other deaths reported include:

• A woman in her 90s from the Southern Health-Santé Sud region reported Saturday;
• A woman in her 70s from the Interlake-Eastern health region reported Sunday;
• A man and women in their 50s, a man in his 60s, a woman in her 70s, and two women in their 80s, all from the Winnipeg health region reported Sunday;
• A man in his 50s from Prairie Mountain Health reported Monday;
• Two women in their 40s and a man in his 50s from the Southern Health-Santé Sud region reported Monday; and
• A woman in her 50s and a man in his 60s from the Winnipeg health region reported Monday.

 

[dirtydoper1991]

I rather pull my last tooth out and give up on solids

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Let's talk about Ronald McDonald and doing your own research....

 

[DurumGallico]

"As i said, Israël and pfizer admit vaccine is no longer efficient against omicron spread, even less that it was against delta. It should be an individual choice based on your age and health, knowing it's not a 100% efficient magical treatment, triple vaccinated can still die from covid."

Non sequitur. One does not follow the other. Vaccines don't stop infections. This has no bearing on what society, individuals or the employers should do to protect themselves. Vaccines do protect people who become infected and that has value. End of story.

Pfizer CEO says two Covid vaccine doses aren't 'enough for omicron'

Bourla said the two-dose vaccine has lost its protective power against infection and its ability to prevent hospitalization has also dropped.

www.cnbc.com

So inefficient they're already working on a new version.

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/article-692335

Israeli PM: Omicron unstoppable but no need for 'hysteria'

Israel's prime minister says there's no need to panic over the ultra-contagious omicron variant

abcnews.go.com

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/article257059142.html

“There is no control of the omicron wave,” said Sharon Alroy-Preis, the Health Ministry’s top public health official on Israel’s Channel 13 this week. “Probably no one is protected from infection,” said Jonathan Halevy, president of Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem on Tuesday.

So inefficient they have no control of the wave despite a high vacccinated population, so inefficient no one is protected from infection despite a high vaccinated population.

It's no alternative reality bullshit, no right wing propaganda or anything else you could find to denigrate these facts.
So no need for your useless demonstration about prisoner of the moment logical fallacies. A new vaccine will appear soon because the current one does not prevent against omicron spread, and Israel is preserving his future 4th shot for high risk population and let his population, vaccinated and unvaccinated, go through massive infections (implying vaccine does not prevent infection against omicron).

About mandate vaccination. Road to hell is paved with good intentions. In France it's against the law, there's medical secret and employers don't have the right to ask about your health or vaccinal status. And it's normal.
Vaccine is good for individual protection only if you need it, since it's effective against severe forms and hospitalization, but not against infection and spread. It would be a non sense considering this. Even if it's a bit more than unvaccinated, it still does not prevent it. Not speaking about ethic, moral, and financial issues.

 

[captainmorgan]

My solution?

Let the fat be fat. Same way the vaxed be vaxed.

No camps, that was the nazi's.

When you get older, and you don't want a gut, diet and exercise. Its simple. If having a gut doesn't bother you, grow it.

I am self disciplined as I claim. I'm doing alright financially. I smoke pot. I really like it. Its a hobby of mine. I know all the negative effects and could quit if I wanted to at any time.

Everything is temporary. Thats the law of time. No getting around that. Ive been working out since about 15 years old. I am forty now.

Not bragging but here is current physic.

View attachment 5065490

Sad little incel.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Pfizer CEO says two Covid vaccine doses aren't 'enough for omicron'

Bourla said the two-dose vaccine has lost its protective power against infection and its ability to prevent hospitalization has also dropped.

www.cnbc.com

So inefficient they're already working on a new version.

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/article-692335

Israeli PM: Omicron unstoppable but no need for 'hysteria'

Israel's prime minister says there's no need to panic over the ultra-contagious omicron variant

abcnews.go.com

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/article257059142.html

“There is no control of the omicron wave,” said Sharon Alroy-Preis, the Health Ministry’s top public health official on Israel’s Channel 13 this week. “Probably no one is protected from infection,” said Jonathan Halevy, president of Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem on Tuesday.

So inefficient they have no control of the wave despite a high vacccinated population, so inefficient no one is protected from infection despite a high vaccinated population.

It's no alternative reality bullshit, no right wing propaganda or anything else you could find to denigrate these facts.
So no need for your useless demonstration about prisoner of the moment logical fallacies. A new vaccine will appear soon because the current one does not prevent against omicron spread, and Israel is preserving his future 4th shot for high risk population and let his population, vaccinated and unvaccinated, go through massive infections (implying vaccine does not prevent infection against omicron).

About mandate vaccination. Road to hell is paved with good intentions. In France it's against the law, there's medical secret and employers don't have the right to ask about your health or vaccinal status. And it's normal.
Vaccine is good for individual protection only if you need it, since it's effective against severe forms and hospitalization, but not against infection and spread. It would be a non sense considering this. Even if it's a bit more than unvaccinated, it still does not prevent it. Not speaking about ethic, moral, and financial issues.

Good news, you lucked out with omicron, the vaxxed lucked out more though, in fact we all lucked out it it appears.
The heat will be off for the unvaxxed, omicron will immunize you.
This expert has been giving good research updates from the beginning of the pandemic, it explains the governments changing policy. Links to papers in the YouTube description.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International data agrees

 

[DurumGallico]

Your english seems to be fine now.

The number of dead people is the issue. We have had the Flu forever and we have not had it turn a building of seniors citizens into a breeding ground with scores of dead as the result. As far as using medicine to keep people from getting sick, how many vaccinations have you had in your life? I have had many as a kid.

Actually hospitalizations went up for children in SA. And SA has a younger population than most Western countries. Aples to oranges, you can look for patterns but don't get fooled by not looking at the big picture. My logic is based on science, I have been reading medical papers and real medical articles since the virus came out. I know a little human biology, have easily read a thousand medical papers before covid. Your saying what I know or do not is a figment that you made up in your head. I know how much we know and how much we do not know of Omi. I agree that we do not know as much as we want to, we do with what we know as we go along.

I disagree with you that unvaccinated people are a greater threat as they do not care about social distancing than the unvaccinated. It is the unvaccinated that do not want to get the shot or have any restrictions on gatherings or wear masks. We even have our own pocket of people that believe this, my brother in law's sister just got out of the ICU just before Christmas. She was anti-vax, there is no virus in their area. And it is not much more than a cold, the government and news outlets are lying to people. You don't have to try and BS me about vaxed people living like it is 1999.

Smoking? What good is it? Obese people? Half the US population are obese, Canada a little better, guessing many of the other Western countries are the same. Alcoholics? No, they need help.

The young will survive? Still a crap shoot. This nurse just got her pin (graduated) and then died of covid in the hospital I worked at.

Got vaccinated as a kid against severe diseases that would certainly kill me if i was infected by them, the exact opposite of covid.
Again, vaccine has low protection against delta spreading and seems to have even less against omicron, you can't blame unvaccinated for killing people.
So crazy to even think about that imo...

You're speaking as if all vaccinated people were thinking the same and all unvaccinated people were thinking the same. You're absolutely wrong.

First, it's obvious that not everyone apply social distancing the same way, we all saw numerous of people with mask off nose, doing it unconsciously and thinking the were protected. It's obvious same kind of things happen with unvax free places. And of course vaccinated people will and already are being less attentive towards social distancing. Even in my own government people were seen as parties without no social distancing at all, there's a lot in all society and it's pretty normal. They're right and unvax should be able to join them since vaccine does not prevent transmission.

Then, the vast majority of the vaccinated people i know, did it only because of restrictive laws, not because a supposedly collectivist heroism to prevent any death of weak people.
The second kind of vaccinated people i know are these actual weak people who allegedly feared of covid and got vaccinated early to prevent serious forms, again no white knight heroism here.
Actually i don't think i know a single person who got vaccinated only to protect others.
And in the other way, i know crazy antivax dudes who swallow everything they read, but also people who don't want to take a medecine made by crapulous liars who got billion dollars fine. but i also know a lot of people like who consider allegedly they are not threatened seriously by covid and don't need to take 3 or 4 shots against a so weak threat. Also lot who just don't care about all that, didn't think about it and just don't want other people to force them do anything. Anyway not all unvaccinated people are crazy antivax, and not all vaccinated people are white knight heroes who would do anything to save the weaker people.

 

[Fogdog]

Pfizer CEO says two Covid vaccine doses aren't 'enough for omicron'

Bourla said the two-dose vaccine has lost its protective power against infection and its ability to prevent hospitalization has also dropped.

www.cnbc.com

So inefficient they're already working on a new version.

https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/coronavirus/article-692335

Israeli PM: Omicron unstoppable but no need for 'hysteria'

Israel's prime minister says there's no need to panic over the ultra-contagious omicron variant

abcnews.go.com

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/article257059142.html

“There is no control of the omicron wave,” said Sharon Alroy-Preis, the Health Ministry’s top public health official on Israel’s Channel 13 this week. “Probably no one is protected from infection,” said Jonathan Halevy, president of Shaare Zedek Medical Center in Jerusalem on Tuesday.

So inefficient they have no control of the wave despite a high vacccinated population, so inefficient no one is protected from infection despite a high vaccinated population.

It's no alternative reality bullshit, no right wing propaganda or anything else you could find to denigrate these facts.
So no need for your useless demonstration about prisoner of the moment logical fallacies. A new vaccine will appear soon because the current one does not prevent against omicron spread, and Israel is preserving his future 4th shot for high risk population and let his population, vaccinated and unvaccinated, go through massive infections (implying vaccine does not prevent infection against omicron).

About mandate vaccination. Road to hell is paved with good intentions. In France it's against the law, there's medical secret and employers don't have the right to ask about your health or vaccinal status. And it's normal.
Vaccine is good for individual protection only if you need it, since it's effective against severe forms and hospitalization, but not against infection and spread. It would be a non sense considering this. Even if it's a bit more than unvaccinated, it still does not prevent it. Not speaking about ethic, moral, and financial issues.

non sequitur One does not follow the other. I shredded your earlier argument and you came back with the same one. What a dunce.

You are treating the ability of Omicron to evade defenses -- which, by the way are bolstered by booster shots -- as if that's the whole issue. It is not. Vaccines prevent serious illness, which is why the DOD made vaccination a requirement and why hospitals are making vaccination a requirement. This is not some moral issue, it's simple arithmetic. Fewer people getting sick means a healthier defense force and a healthier workforce.

 

[C. Nesbitt]

non sequitur One does not follow the other. I shredded your earlier argument and you came back with the same one. What a dunce.

You are treating the ability of Omicron to evade defenses -- which, by the way are bolstered by booster shots -- as if that's the whole issue. It is not. Vaccines prevent serious illness, which is why the DOD made vaccination a requirement and why hospitals are making vaccination a requirement. This is not some moral issue, it's simple arithmetic. Fewer people getting sick means a healthier defense force and a healthier workforce.

He really hasn’t added anything to the discussion for the past day beyond regurgitating right-wing antivax propaganda, blaming the climb in children’s hospitalization rates on American kids being fat and telling us how low the rates are in a supposed corner of France. Not sure I believe the French part anyway but whatever.

 

[Fogdog]

He really hasn’t added anything to the discussion for the past day beyond regurgitating right-wing antivax propaganda, blaming the climb in children’s hospitalization rates on American kids being fat and telling us how low the rates are in a supposed corner of France. Not sure I believe the French part anyway but whatever.

I recognize this sock as one of many. They don't ever bring new information or arguments and why should they? They are on the wrong side of the facts.

I don't understand why people would push an ideology that kills people as a means of owning the libs but that's the what they are doing. Let us remember this.

 

[printer]

He really hasn’t added anything to the discussion for the past day beyond regurgitating right-wing antivax propaganda, blaming the climb in children’s hospitalization rates on American kids being fat and telling us how low the rates are in a supposed corner of France. Not sure I believe the French part anyway but whatever.

Childhood obesity in France: The fight against stigma and stereotypes
According to the latest figures, obesity levels are on the rise, especially among France's youngsters. They're up by at least 75 percent, with 34 percent of 2 to 7-year-olds currently considered overweight or obese. But what actually qualifies as childhood obesity, what stigma does it carry and how does it affect children and their health? We speak to Professor Patrick Tounian, an advisor to the Anti-Obesity League.

France in focus - Childhood obesity in France: The fight against stigma and stereotypes

According to the latest figures, obesity levels are on the rise, especially among France's youngsters. They're up by at least 75 percent, with 34 percent of 2 to 7-year-olds currently considered overweight…

www.france24.com

Obesity is on the rise in France according to the latest epidemiological survey
Obesity has doubled in France during the last 25 years. The new national epidemiological survey on overweight and obesity by Obepi-Roche (2020) presented last week by “la Ligue contre l’obésité” showed obesity has increased significantly since the last Obepi-Roche survey (2012), 8 years ago. The survey, which involved 12,000 French participants, is also the first report of its kind to study paediatric obesity.

According to the survey, nearly 1 adult in 6 is living with obesity in France today. 17% of the French population is obese, compared to 15% 8 years ago, accounting for nearly 8,567,128 individuals. Of the total population, 2 % have a BMI above 40, accounting for 1 million people. 36% are receiving treatment for obesity, 20 % are being treated for diabetes and 18% suffer from sleep apnoea.

Nearly 50% of the French population Is overweight or obese.

18% of 2 to 7 year-olds and 6 % of 8 to 17 year-old are obese. Prevalence among young people between 8 and 17 years old is twice as high in boys (62%) as in girls (38%). Young people from disadvantaged background are over-represented. 75% of the 8 to 17 year-olds who are overweight or obese fall into this category – more than 9 points higher than the general population.

The survey outlined the correlation between obesity and social environment with an obesity level twice as high in working class professions than in white collar professions (18% vs. 9.9%). Moreover, regional disparities are very high as well with the North and Est being of greater concern: 22.1% in Hauts-de-France, 20.2% in Grand Est and 19.8% in Normandy. Les Pays de la Loire (14.4 %) and Lile-de-France (14.2 %) fall at the bottom of the list. Obesity rates are also increasing with age. However, in recent years, it is among the youngest (18-24 years old) that obesity has increased the most, from 5.4 % in 2012 to 9.2 % in 2020.

Obesity is on the rise in France according to the latest epidemiological survey - C3 Collaborating for Health

Obesity has doubled in France during the last 25 years. The new national epidemiological survey on overweight and obesity by Obepi-Roche (2020) presented last week by “la Ligue contre l’obésité” showed obesity has increased significantly since the last Obepi-Roche survey (2012), 8 years ago. The...

www.c3health.org

Prevalence of Childhood Obesity in the United States
For children and adolescents aged 2-19 years in 2017-20181:

• The prevalence of obesity was 19.3% and affected about 14.4 million children and adolescents.
• Obesity prevalence was 13.4% among 2- to 5-year-olds, 20.3% among 6- to 11-year-olds, and 21.2% among 12- to 19-year-olds. Childhood obesity is also more common among certain populations.
• Obesity prevalence was 25.6% among Hispanic children, 24.2% among non-Hispanic Black children, 16.1% among non-Hispanic White children, and 8.7% among non-Hispanic Asian children.

Childhood Obesity Facts | Overweight & Obesity | CDC

Childhood obesity is a serious problem in the United States. Learn more...

www.cdc.gov

 

[DurumGallico]

non sequitur One does not follow the other. I shredded your earlier argument and you came back with the same one. What a dunce.

You are treating the ability of Omicron to evade defenses -- which, by the way are bolstered by booster shots -- as if that's the whole issue. It is not. Vaccines prevent serious illness, which is why the DOD made vaccination a requirement and why hospitals are making vaccination a requirement. This is not some moral issue, it's simple arithmetic. Fewer people getting sick means a healthier defense force and a healthier workforce.

like i just sentenced one argument here.
All i said was facts just deal with it.

And vaccine mandatory is against the law. Except on a few specific places and that might be comprehensible, against covid in the whole population it's absolute nonsense and will never be, in France at least. And since vaccines only prevent severe forms and not spreading it should not be used as a restrictive tool to stop the spread.

 

[Fogdog]

like i just sentenced one argument here.
All i said was facts just deal with it.

And vaccine mandatory is against the law. Except on a few specific places and that might be comprehensible, against covid in the whole population it's absolute nonsense and will never be, in France at least. And since vaccines only prevent severe forms and not spreading it should not be used as a restrictive tool to stop the spread.

Which differences do we have regarding the facts? I have no disagreement with your assertion that the current vaccines are not great to protect people against infection. Your extrapolation of that fact to say vaccines are ineffective is false.

Mandating vaccines as a requirement to work is legal. The rest of your confused post has nothing to do with that.

The vaccines are safe and effective. End of story.

 

[DurumGallico]

He really hasn’t added anything to the discussion for the past day beyond regurgitating right-wing antivax propaganda, blaming the climb in children’s hospitalization rates on American kids being fat and telling us how low the rates are in a supposed corner of France. Not sure I believe the French part anyway but whatever.

Of course its multi factor but obesity is with no doubt one of them. Anyway yes sending cdc and other legit links to support my points of course it's what antivax right wing propaganda do.
Since you won't change and even won't want to comprehend what my points are, refuting everything by a silly right wing propaganda accusation or something less, everyone is losing time here.

 

[DurumGallico]

Which differences do we have that are upon the facts? Your opinion has no value, just facts.

Mandating vaccines as a requirement to work is legal. The rest of your confused post has nothing to do with that.

The vaccines are safe and effective. End of story.

Yes not as much as yours don't worry.

It's illegal in France, has been strongly refused by both syndicates and CEOs and they're absolutely right.

 

[Fogdog]

Yes not as much as yours don't worry.

It's illegal in France, has been strongly refused by both syndicates and CEOs and they're absolutely right.

I liked it very much when I heard Macron say his administration will make your lives miserable.

suffer, bitch.

 

[DurumGallico]

I liked it very much when I heard Macron say his administration will make your lives miserable.

suffer, bitch.

Macron is a total psycho and i'm not surprised you liked hearing he was expressing his sadistic tendencies on his new scapegoat. You seem to be as psycho as him.

 

[Sir Napsalot]

Macron is a total psycho and i'm not surprised you liked hearing he was expressing his sadistic tendencies on his new scapegoat. You seem to be as psycho as him.

You make yourself easy to discount

 

[printer]

You make yourself easy to discount

No shit?