Adding cal to jacks

[Flowki]

I have not used the tomato product yet, but I can say that using Citrus FeED on my vegetable garden has led to blossom end rot on two varieties of tomatoes. Blossom end rot is a calcium deficiency. I may try the Tomato product, but I suspect that I'll just use Dynagro for everything. Using Jack's in a siphon mixer is very expensive.

I can kind of figure what a siphon mixer is but are you saying you need one to use jacks products?.

 

[questiondj42]

I can kind of figure what a siphon mixer is but are you saying you need one to use jacks products?.

No, I'm using a siphon mixer because I have 600+ square feet of garden to feed. It's cheaper to use DynaGro than it is to use Jack's because Dynagro is more concentrated. To make 5g of solution at 15:1, it uses an entire pound and a half of Jack's. It's something like 6 oz of Dynagro. That 5gal of solution is enough for 3 feedings, tops. So with Jack's, it gets pricey very quickly.

 

[Pat666]

Hey trying to save $$ and I hear I should use Jacks5-12-26 and cal nit. I tried looking up info on google and hear but Im really ignorant about Nutes and ratios etc. and This will be 2nd DWC grow so don't always understand what I'm reading and would love some help.Currently I follow directions on bottles and keep close to correct ppm for stage I'm at. Not sure jacks package is geared toward marijuana growing like some Nutes with specifics for veg+flower so I'm wondering how much people use per gallon of each for veg+flower in teaspoons or grams. I know it goes up and down depending upon where your at in grow. So maybe like starting amount and peak amount. Also is there anything else I should be using along with the 5-12-26 +cal like a booster during flower or? Thanks and sorry if this post is slightly off topic for this thread I didn't wanna make whole new thread.

 

[MisterBlah]

Hey trying to save $$ and I hear I should use Jacks5-12-26 and cal nit. I tried looking up info on google and hear but Im really ignorant about Nutes and ratios etc. and This will be 2nd DWC grow so don't always understand what I'm reading and would love some help.Currently I follow directions on bottles and keep close to correct ppm for stage I'm at. Not sure jacks package is geared toward marijuana growing like some Nutes with specifics for veg+flower so I'm wondering how much people use per gallon of each for veg+flower in teaspoons or grams. I know it goes up and down depending upon where your at in grow. So maybe like starting amount and peak amount. Also is there anything else I should be using along with the 5-12-26 +cal like a booster during flower or? Thanks and sorry if this post is slightly off topic for this thread I didn't wanna make whole new thread.

I think you have perfectly reasonably questions. But to say other fertilizers are "designed for cannabis" is, quite frankly, bullshit. Cannabis is a general cut flower plant, and as such, you can treat it like any other cut flower plant in existence.

Anyway, back to Jack's 5-12-26 Hydroponic.

If I were you I would start with the following for vegetative growth:
3.0 g/gal calcium nitrate(Yara Calcinit, for example)
2.0 g/gal 5-12-26 blend w/ micros (Jacks 5-12-26 Hydroponic)
1.0 g/gal epsom salt (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate)

Here's a link to the label:http://www.kellysolutions.com/erene...ORPONICS_HYDROPONIC_7_30_2012_12_43_52_PM.pdf

Beginning with the flower stage, add 0.5 g/gal MKP, monopotassium phosphate. This is a 0-52-34 fertilizer.

You can also consider adding some potassium sulfate starting in week 2/3 or flower. I'd add maybe 0.5 g/gal of potassium sulfate, at most.

During flower in order to reduce the nitrogen concentration I would also suggest reducing the concentration of calcium nitrate to 2.5 g/L and also reduce the concentration of 5-12-26 to 1.75 g/L.

 

[Pat666]

I think you have perfectly reasonably questions. But to say other fertilizers are "designed for cannabis" is, quite frankly, bullshit. Cannabis is a general cut flower plant, and as such, you can treat it like any other cut flower plant in existence.

Anyway, back to Jack's 5-12-26 Hydroponic.

If I were you I would start with the following for vegetative growth:
3.0 g/gal calcium nitrate(Yara Calcinit, for example)
2.0 g/gal 5-12-26 blend w/ micros (Jacks 5-12-26 Hydroponic)
1.0 g/gal epsom salt (magnesium sulfate heptahydrate)

Here's a link to the label:http://www.kellysolutions.com/erene...ORPONICS_HYDROPONIC_7_30_2012_12_43_52_PM.pdf

Beginning with the flower stage, add 0.5 g/gal MKP, monopotassium phosphate. This is a 0-52-34 fertilizer.

You can also consider adding some potassium sulfate starting in week 2/3 or flower. I'd add maybe 0.5 g/gal of potassium sulfate, at most.

During flower in order to reduce the nitrogen concentration I would also suggest reducing the concentration of calcium nitrate to 2.5 g/L and also reduce the concentration of 5-12-26 to 1.75 g/L.

I just meant some nutrients list a ton of different plans and vegetables with different recommended doses and my current Nutes just say 2ml/L for example but I get what your saying and just didn't realize I could treat weed like any other olant thanks for the heads up in that and all the info you posted I really appreciat it

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Soft water means low ion concentration, usually calcium/magnesium. Hard water means high ion concentration, usually calcium/magnesium.




There's no way to say what is the best for you when growing in soil without a soil quality test.

Anyway, here's a breakdown of Jack's Hydroponic 5-12-16

First off, let me move back to metric units. 13 oz/100gal ~ 1g/L

So, 1 g/L of 5-12-26 Hydroponic will provide you with the following nutrient concentrations in distilled water:

Total Nitrogen - 50 ppm
Phosphorus - 52 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 120 ppm)
Potassium - 216 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 260ppm)
Calcium - 0 ppm
Magnesium - 63 ppm
Sulfur - 82 ppm
Boron - 0.5 ppm
Iron - 3 ppm
Manganese - 0.5 ppm
Zinc - 0.2 ppm
Copper - 0.2 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.1 ppm

Now, for the calcium nitrate. Calcium nitrate fertilizers are a 15.5-0-0 + 19%Ca.
1.5 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 232 ppm
Calcium - 285 ppm

1 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 155 ppm
Calcium - 190 ppm

0.75 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 116 ppm
Calcium - 142 ppm

0.5 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 77 ppm
Calcium - 95 ppm

Alright. Now we know what both can provide us. But, that doesn't really tell us what we should really be using.

So, lets just get a starting point. I chose 1 g/L for a reason.

At 1 g/L of both 5-12-26 Hydroponic and calcium nitrate, we get a complete blend that has the following concentrations:

Total Nitrogen - 205 ppm
Phosphorus - 52 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 120 ppm)
Potassium - 216 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 260ppm)
Calcium - 190 ppm
Magnesium - 63 ppm
Sulfur - 82 ppm
Boron - 0.5 ppm
Iron - 3 ppm
Manganese - 0.5 ppm
Zinc - 0.2 ppm
Copper - 0.2 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.1 ppm

This ends up being a really good and balanced veg stage fertilizer blend. It's not too concentrated and is not going to stress the plants that much. You will see good strong growth.

Now, if you want to increase the concentration of Nitrogen from here, often times, you may be told to use more calcium nitrate. Like increasing calcium nitrate to 1.5 g/L with your 1 g/L of 5-12-26 Hydroponic.

This would have the following effect on the blend I just showed:
Total Nitrogen - 282 ppm
Calcium - 285 ppm

Personally, I find 285 ppm calcium to be too high. So, instead of adding more calcium nitrate, I would add some Urea. Urea is a 46-0-0 fertilizer. I would add 0.15 g/L of urea. 0.15 g/L of urea will add 69 ppm of nitrogen to your fertilizer blend.

Total Nitrogen is now 274 ppm

But, ya know, good flowering/bloom fertilizer blends are lower in nitrogen in relation to everything else. So, lets see how we would create that.

First, I'm going to add 0.75 g/L of both 5-12-26 Hydroponic and calcium nitrate. Got to keep that nitrogen down.

Total Nitrogen - 154 ppm
Phosphorus - 39 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 90 ppm)
Potassium - 162 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 195 ppm)
Calcium - 143 ppm
Magnesium - 47 ppm
Sulfur - 62 ppm
Boron - 0.38 ppm
Iron - 2.25 ppm
Manganese - 0.38 ppm
Zinc - 0.15 ppm
Copper - 0.15 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.08 ppm

Alright, so this changed a lot. But, the important thing is, we dropped our nitrogen down by a lot. Don't worry about the micronutrients, you'll be fine with a small drop like that. What you do want to pay attention to though, is potassium. We need to get that potassium back up to where it was, maybe a little higher even.

We're going to use Potassium Sulfate for this. Potassium Sulfate is a 0-0-52 +18%S.

Lets add 0.25 g/L of Potassium Sulfate. This adds the following:
Potassium - 108 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 130 ppm)
Sulfur - 45 ppm

This changes the completed feeding solution to the following:
Total Nitrogen - 154 ppm
Phosphorus - 39 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 90 ppm)
Potassium - 270 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 325 ppm)
Calcium - 143 ppm
Magnesium - 47 ppm
Sulfur - 107 ppm
Boron - 0.38 ppm
Iron - 2.25 ppm
Manganese - 0.38 ppm
Zinc - 0.15 ppm
Copper - 0.15 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.08 ppm

To reduce your nitrogen concentration even further, you'll have to use even less calcium nitrate. So, dropping calcium nitrate to 0.5 g/L will reduce your nitrogen by 39 ppm, down to 115 ppm. Remember though, that this also drops calcium concentration by 47 ppm. You aren't that likely to have a calcium deficiency at this point, but if you do, just add back some of that calcium nitrate.

Thank you so much for this breakdown. You mention soil quality. What about water quality? Are we strictly talking hydro with ro water here?

In my new house the deep well has .3 EC or 150ppm water. I have not had a sample tested but it is really clean.

and in comments above a light mix is mentioned before this breakdown.

What about the calcium in the water and the lime or oyster shell like fox farm ocean forest has. And the calcium and mag in the water source?

Really I would like a suggestion for a one part fertilizer. Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Grow alone almost does it. But I still had a couple plants with a little trouble. And it's expensive to use. And I unfortunately am a perfectionist so I am stressed and going to need to grow a lot more healthy Pot Plants

Thanks in advance for any suggestion. If the answer is the same jacks hydro nute combo shouldn't the calcium nitrate be lowered further to compensate? I am not really too lazy to mix more products if it works better.

 

[Flowki]

I'd also like to jump in with a question or two. As I've recently learned a ppm or ec meter is only an estimate and can actually be out by what seems to be a considerable amount, enough where I see no point in owning one. It leads me to wonder why so many suggest using one and also, is it actually intended to be used for this purpose given how inaccurate it seems to be?.

My second question is that if the EC meter reads say 0.8 but you know you added closer to 0.5, could you diliberately off set the calibration to read 0.5 so that it's a little more accurate in future (assuming using the same water and type of neuts). More so to be used as a final check to make sure you didn't fk something up and add in way too much.

 

[ttystikk]

I'd also like to jump in with a question or two. As I've recently learned a ppm or ec meter is only an estimate and can actually be out by what seems to be a considerable amount, enough where I see no point in owning one. It leads me to wonder why so many suggest using one and also, is it actually intended to be used for this purpose given how inaccurate it seems to be?.

My second question is that if the EC meter reads say 0.8 but you know you added closer to 0.5, could you diliberately off set the calibration to read 0.5 so that it's a little more accurate in future (assuming using the same water and type of neuts). More so to be used as a final check to make sure you didn't fk something up and add in way too much.

My EC meter does not show such variation. I use it daily.

 

[Flowki]

My EC meter does not show such variation. I use it daily.

Maybe an extreme example

 

[ttystikk]

Maybe an extreme example

Whoever told you your EC meter doesn't read accurately misled you.

While it won't tell you what is in your water, electrical conductivity can be measured very accurately.

 

[MisterBlah]

Whoever told you your EC meter doesn't read accurately misled you.

While it won't tell you what is in your water, electrical conductivity can be measured very accurately.

EC is an estimate of TDS. Actual measuring of EC can be done very accurately. The conversion to TDS is not so accurate, it's an estimate based on the average ability of ions to transmit electricity.

It should only be used to monitor change in the water.

 

[MisterBlah]

Example:

At pH 6.3,

A solution of 250 ppm Ca and 250 ppm NO3 will have an EC of around 1.56.
A solution of 250 ppm Ca and 250 ppm Cl will have an EC of around 1.06.
A solution of 250 ppm Na and 250 ppm Cl will have an EC of around 0.83.
A solution of 250 ppm K and 250 ppm PO4 will have an EC of aroun 0.67.
A solution of 250 ppm K and 250 ppm Cl will have an EC of around 0.62.

pH adjust each solution to their actual equilibrium point and the EC will change significantly.

 

[Flowki]

I think this is my bus stop ;p.

 

[churchhaze]

Whoever told you your EC meter doesn't read accurately misled you.

While it won't tell you what is in your water, electrical conductivity can be measured very accurately.

Electrical conductivity can be measured accurately, but it will not accurately tell you how much TDS is in your water unless you know exactly what's in it. The 0.7 and 0.5 scales are not accurate at all. Even pH can affect EC.

Someone is being misleading... but isn't that what you'd expect from RIU? (or maybe someone is misquoting me?)

 

[plumsmooth]

I wonder if this would solve my Calcium deficiency in Veg! I rarely see reference to 1:1 Jacks Hydroponic and Calcium Nitrate.
I have been adding Cal/Mag to try and balance the Jacks. I would be curious to try running 1:1 in Veg and see what happened I think the main thing would to be careful not to overdose Nitrogen at this level?

Soft water means low ion concentration, usually calcium/magnesium. Hard water means high ion concentration, usually calcium/magnesium.




There's no way to say what is the best for you when growing in soil without a soil quality test.

Anyway, here's a breakdown of Jack's Hydroponic 5-12-16

First off, let me move back to metric units. 13 oz/100gal ~ 1g/L

So, 1 g/L of 5-12-26 Hydroponic will provide you with the following nutrient concentrations in distilled water:

Total Nitrogen - 50 ppm
Phosphorus - 52 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 120 ppm)
Potassium - 216 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 260ppm)
Calcium - 0 ppm
Magnesium - 63 ppm
Sulfur - 82 ppm
Boron - 0.5 ppm
Iron - 3 ppm
Manganese - 0.5 ppm
Zinc - 0.2 ppm
Copper - 0.2 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.1 ppm

Now, for the calcium nitrate. Calcium nitrate fertilizers are a 15.5-0-0 + 19%Ca.
1.5 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 232 ppm
Calcium - 285 ppm

1 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 155 ppm
Calcium - 190 ppm

0.75 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 116 ppm
Calcium - 142 ppm

0.5 g/L:
Total Nitrogen - 77 ppm
Calcium - 95 ppm

Alright. Now we know what both can provide us. But, that doesn't really tell us what we should really be using.

So, lets just get a starting point. I chose 1 g/L for a reason.

At 1 g/L of both 5-12-26 Hydroponic and calcium nitrate, we get a complete blend that has the following concentrations:

Total Nitrogen - 205 ppm
Phosphorus - 52 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 120 ppm)
Potassium - 216 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 260ppm)
Calcium - 190 ppm
Magnesium - 63 ppm
Sulfur - 82 ppm
Boron - 0.5 ppm
Iron - 3 ppm
Manganese - 0.5 ppm
Zinc - 0.2 ppm
Copper - 0.2 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.1 ppm

This ends up being a really good and balanced veg stage fertilizer blend. It's not too concentrated and is not going to stress the plants that much. You will see good strong growth.

Now, if you want to increase the concentration of Nitrogen from here, often times, you may be told to use more calcium nitrate. Like increasing calcium nitrate to 1.5 g/L with your 1 g/L of 5-12-26 Hydroponic.

This would have the following effect on the blend I just showed:
Total Nitrogen - 282 ppm
Calcium - 285 ppm

Personally, I find 285 ppm calcium to be too high. So, instead of adding more calcium nitrate, I would add some Urea. Urea is a 46-0-0 fertilizer. I would add 0.15 g/L of urea. 0.15 g/L of urea will add 69 ppm of nitrogen to your fertilizer blend.

Total Nitrogen is now 274 ppm

But, ya know, good flowering/bloom fertilizer blends are lower in nitrogen in relation to everything else. So, lets see how we would create that.

First, I'm going to add 0.75 g/L of both 5-12-26 Hydroponic and calcium nitrate. Got to keep that nitrogen down.

Total Nitrogen - 154 ppm
Phosphorus - 39 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 90 ppm)
Potassium - 162 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 195 ppm)
Calcium - 143 ppm
Magnesium - 47 ppm
Sulfur - 62 ppm
Boron - 0.38 ppm
Iron - 2.25 ppm
Manganese - 0.38 ppm
Zinc - 0.15 ppm
Copper - 0.15 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.08 ppm

Alright, so this changed a lot. But, the important thing is, we dropped our nitrogen down by a lot. Don't worry about the micronutrients, you'll be fine with a small drop like that. What you do want to pay attention to though, is potassium. We need to get that potassium back up to where it was, maybe a little higher even.

We're going to use Potassium Sulfate for this. Potassium Sulfate is a 0-0-52 +18%S.

Lets add 0.25 g/L of Potassium Sulfate. This adds the following:
Potassium - 108 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 130 ppm)
Sulfur - 45 ppm

This changes the completed feeding solution to the following:
Total Nitrogen - 154 ppm
Phosphorus - 39 ppm (Phosphate as P2O5 - 90 ppm)
Potassium - 270 ppm (Soluble Potash as K2O - 325 ppm)
Calcium - 143 ppm
Magnesium - 47 ppm
Sulfur - 107 ppm
Boron - 0.38 ppm
Iron - 2.25 ppm
Manganese - 0.38 ppm
Zinc - 0.15 ppm
Copper - 0.15 ppm
Molybdenum - 0.08 ppm

To reduce your nitrogen concentration even further, you'll have to use even less calcium nitrate. So, dropping calcium nitrate to 0.5 g/L will reduce your nitrogen by 39 ppm, down to 115 ppm. Remember though, that this also drops calcium concentration by 47 ppm. You aren't that likely to have a calcium deficiency at this point, but if you do, just add back some of that calcium nitrate.

 

[ttystikk]

I wonder if this would solve my Calcium deficiency in Veg! I rarely see reference to 1:1 Jacks Hydroponic and Calcium Nitrate.
I have been adding Cal/Mag to try and balance the Jacks. I would be curious to try running 1:1 in Veg and see what happened I think the main thing would to be careful not to overdose Nitrogen at this level?

5 parts mix to 4 parts calcium nitrate and 2 parts epsom salt has worked very well.