Electric breaker panel question stab lok

ISK

ISK

Well-Known Member
Friendly_Grower said:
@ISK That was a good post. Thanks!

It looked to me that there is also a Grounding rod thing at the bottom. Is that allowed these days? I'm always learning but what I have read makes me think that the return path should be back at the source of service not at the panel. So, it's a good question to ask.
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Yes, grounding rods are allowed if you don't have an alternative viable ground
pahpah-cee said:
I’ve reached out to a local electrician who is willing to look it over via pictures and explain things over the phone. He will charge me if he comes out. So I’m going to see how far I can get it before I have him come out

Thank you ISK and friendly grower for your insight. Here is more pictures to get a better understanding. P.s. I also have the dead door- just not installed at the moment.

Is this not grounding to my water pipes? Would I land it to this somehow?


Im digging my trenches deeper. The electrician said at minimum 18” deep with schedule 40 pipe. I was going to use UL liquid tight conduit originally. this is actually cheaper and feels more safe.
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Yes, I assumed those two thicker wires (about 6 or 8 gauge) are your grounding...not sure why there is two but maybe one went bad...or maybe one was for the 50 amp breaker on the bottom right for either a sub-panel or maybe an electric stove (which are typically only 40 amps).

I also note you have 4 wires (12 or 14 gauge) going to the breakers but only two white returns, so this is often done in your kitchen where each plug-in on the receptacle have a separate feed/breaker but they share the return wire.

The electrician can only provide a best guess until he comes onsite to view
 
Friendly_Grower

Friendly_Grower

Well-Known Member
pahpah-cee said:
I’ve reached out to a local electrician who is willing to look it over via pictures and explain things over the phone. He will charge me if he comes out. So I’m going to see how far I can get it before I have him come out

Thank you ISK and friendly grower for your insight. Here is more pictures to get a better understanding. P.s. I also have the dead door- just not installed at the moment.

Is this not grounding to my water pipes? Would I land it to this somehow?
View attachment 5120576

Im digging my trenches deeper. The electrician said at minimum 18” deep with schedule 40 pipe. I was going to use UL liquid tight conduit originally. this is actually cheaper and feels more safe.
Click to expand...

There is just so much I know.
However, a service may have to be Neutral/Ground back to the service and not grounded to your pipes.
Look if you are not trained and experienced in installing service lines get help.
What does the NEC 2020 say about burred conduit?
Also note that there are wire that you can bury without a conduit.

My mistakes when planning my build out were all about buying the wrong things and spending several hundred I didn't have to.
Oh sure I can try and resell on EBay and I might but save yourself the hassle and research VIA the NEC 2020 before you spend on anything including digging.

Have you gone on DIYchatroom.com?
 
Friendly_Grower

Friendly_Grower

Well-Known Member
ISK said:
Yes, grounding rods are allowed if you don't have an alternative viable ground

Yes, I assumed those two thicker wires (about 6 or 8 gauge) are your grounding...not sure why there is two but maybe one went bad...or maybe one was for the 50 amp breaker on the bottom right for either a sub-panel or maybe an electric stove (which are typically only 40 amps).

I also note you have 4 wires (12 or 14 gauge) going to the breakers but only two white returns, so this is often done in your kitchen where each plug-in on the receptacle have a separate feed/breaker but they share the return wire.

The electrician can only provide a best guess until he comes onsite to view
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Yes and the "Shared-Neutral" are for specific usages and not for general circuits. Also Note that there are specific breakers for Split Neutral circuits. It's not to Code to use two single breakers like there was in this old house. Two single breakers means both hots will try and pull 20 amps each which is bad news for a single neutral wire if I understand things correctly.

I believe @ISK that it was more common many many years ago to use split neutral but I believe that is something to avoid. In a Kitchen I see that it is done but the total allowed amperage is less than the rated 20 amps for both hots if I am not mistaken. Assuming the wires are rated for 20 amps naturally.
 
thumper60

thumper60

Well-Known Member
pahpah-cee said:
Okay I have dug my 18” trench. I’m waiting on a new longer fish tape to pull my wire. Piping is schedule 40 1/2”. Once I get my wired pulled and tapped into my garage I’ll have the electrician come out. I hopefully will have this done by today or else my wife will kill me.

View attachment 5121005
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That wire is going to be tricky pulling thur 1/2in 90 degree bends
 
P

pahpah-cee

Well-Known Member
thumper60 said:
That wire is going to be tricky pulling thur 1/2in 90 degree bends
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totally! I left the 90 degree bends not cemented yet. I will cement those bends after I feed the wire through.

waiting on Amazon for my fish tape…won’t be here till tonight and I swore to my wife I will bury the trench by today. So I might be doing some night digging like a tweaker.

I will be adding 1/2 brackets every 1foot to support it. I don’t know the actual code for the support brackets but I’m sure every foot will be within tolerance and over kill.

Once the brackets are up im going to hit them with some paint so the conduit is less ugly and noticeable.
 
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pahpah-cee

Well-Known Member
Okay conduit is wired, buried, and painted. Fresh grass seed is planted so the wife is off my back.

next step is running the wire through my garage. I’m going to throw a junction box over the pvc coming into the garage and swap my cable over to some MC cable since the walls are exposed. Once I run the wire to a outlet or two I will connect to the wire to the breaker.

So I’ve looked more into my electric panel and I believe the reason their is no ground bar terminal is because the metal conduit holding the hot and neutral wire was the actual ground itself. So following this logic, would one install a ground terminal bar to the panel itself - giving you a place to land the ground? Or is the neutral and ground bonded to my water pipe? Or would you bring the ground wire back into the Edison panel and add connected it to a ground in there?
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
pahpah-cee said:
Okay conduit is wired, buried, and painted. Fresh grass seed is planted so the wife is off my back.

next step is running the wire through my garage. I’m going to throw a junction box over the pvc coming into the garage and swap my cable over to some MC cable since the walls are exposed. Once I run the wire to a outlet or two I will connect to the wire to the breaker.

So I’ve looked more into my electric panel and I believe the reason their is no ground bar terminal is because the metal conduit holding the hot and neutral wire was the actual ground itself. So following this logic, would one install a ground terminal bar to the panel itself - giving you a place to land the ground? Or is the neutral and ground bonded to my water pipe? Or would you bring the ground wire back into the Edison panel and add connected it to a ground in there?
Click to expand...
If unsure of your system ground you should go buy a grounding rod and plant it per code. Ground the entire system to this grounding rod.
 
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