Ernest Kish
Member
really great post...sometimes leaves can be hard to read so you gave us newbies a great step up in our grow ...thank you....
Guide to Nutrient Deficiency or Toxicity
- Thread starter nick17gar
- Start date
Stltoed
Well-Known Member
Exactly like every book ever written
Old Grower Dude
Member
Been a long time lurker just getting general consensus on things here and there. I am a very long time grower for over 35 years. First 20 years were exclusively outdoor grows in Cali. North and south. Most of the time in those very early years we had no clue what we were growing. It all came from bag seed. Most of the time we ended up with seeds in our fems because other growers even miles away would not pull the males or were too late in pulling them. Growing in the ground was easy for the most part because of the soil and not having to worry so much about deficiencies. Just weather, bugs and theft were the basic concerns.
Fast forward to the last 15 or 20 years I have grown exclusively indoors. Started doing this because by then the indoor lights had gotten to the point of being able to produce high quality herb. Indoors I can control every aspect of the grow from start to finish. I grow now exclusively for the medical community delivering very high quality organic (for the most part) herb at cost. I have grown out at least over 200 different strains. I tell you all of this not trying to brag or claim I have superior knowledge. I am naturally very curious and will try all manner of new ways to do things. Experimenting in my conditions so I can grow even better quality is my goal. I have failed many, many times spectacularly but have learned from those failures.
Now the very reason I am posting here today is the issue this forum is based on and that is nutrient deficiency or toxicity. To fix these issues requires patience and trial and error and the slow elimination of causes. It can be very tedious and it is what I call chasing rabbits. I dont like chasing rabbits because you seldom catch them if you try. This is assuming you are growing indoors in a soil of some sort. Hydro etc is a whole different concept mostly having to do with water and ppms etc. I do not grow in hydro for a few reasons. One it requires more work and if your power goes so does all your crops. During a week long power outage in the winter time I kept a 10x20 grow room warm enough by candles and the plants survived while those I knew growing in hydro lost them all. I also prefer the quality and taste of herb grown in soil versus hydro. When I say soil I also mean soil less type mediums for the most part.
So the elimination of causes is basically where you start.
Lights
Temps
Water
Soil
Nutrients
Pests
If you are using the same lights you have always used then you can probably rule that out right off. Lights dont generally cause the problems associated with our problem.
If your temps are basically staying in the same range they always have then you can probably rule that out as well.
Water is a factor all too well known to have some issue depending on what water you are using. I use tap water as where I am we have very good water quality from an aquifer and the only additive is chlorine (not chloramine) which does change seasonally to how much they add and requires to sit longer to dissipate. If you are using RO or some other form of filtered water and have not changed anything then a simple ph test will determine if your water is at neutral where it should be.
Soil or soil less mediums are and can be where chasing rabbits is quite common. Many growers think because they are using what they have always used it could not possibly be the problem. I have found that not to be true at all. The soil mix I currently use is the sunshine advanced 4 at a 50% ratio to FF Ocean Forest 50%. This gives me a good mix of organics to soil less (peat moss etc). For a few years Fox Farm had quality control issues and I stopped using it because it was basically stunting the plants growth and PH problems. I have tried countless other mixes with varying degrees of success and/or failure. Some were too high in organics and could not really control the timing of giving the plants what they needed when they needed it. Some problems I recently have come across concerns the Pro-Mix HP and BX products. I ran across this problem a few years ago and quit using them but I could not find the Sunshine Advanced 4 mix so I went with the Pro-Mix hoping they had fixed their issues. Sadly my plants went through the same problems. It was PH problems then and it is now. The minute I flushed my veg plants and transplanted using only the FF soil did they almost overnight start to spring back. At first your plants will not show the PH problem until it is too late and then you start chasing the rabbit again trying to figure out what it is. You start thinking is it the nutes or what? Cal/mag issues? What? Because PH issues will seem to show your plants are deficient in these areas when it really is the PH stopping the plant from being able to use them. I had these same issues growing in Coco with some manufacturers. There are many posts about this so no need to elaborate. The PH problem in Peat products is usually one of too low a ph and the manufacturers add lime to raise the ph in peat products. Are they not putting enough in or? All I know is I am not chasing that rabbit. Even ph testing a small amount before using may not be inclusive to the whole bale you just got. Just flush and transplant into a good potting mix and see if that works. But have patience and test on one or 2 plants first.
Nutrients are a whole different ball of wax. If you think after looking at the nutrient deficiency chart you have a good idea what you are deficient in or toxic in then you have a few ways to try and fix. Deficiency could mean adding more of what it needs and your problem is solved. But being deficient could mean you have what you need in the soil but it is locked out. Then you need to flush your plant with plain water. If it is toxicity then you need to flush the plant with plain water and then add what it is missing. Sometimes it even means to take the plant out of its container and knock off or spray off most of the soil and replant using good soil and just water.
Pests can come in a variety of forms so I wont get into each and everyone of them and how to fix. The common ones are fungus gnats and spider mites. I have dealt with both. Fungus gnats I got rid of by watering with water and hydrogen peroxide every single plant I had and then have the yellow sticky paper. All gnats gone and have never had an issue since. Spider mites I take care of by a soap and neem oil water dip and rinse and have not had any issues with them years. I spray my plants with neem weekly and keep things clean. If I ever get a clone from someone it goes into quarantine and sprayed and scoped to make sure after 10 days no signs of mites before it goes with the rest of the plants. Now I dont take clones from anyone and only grow new strains from feminized seeds. Why take chances?
These are just my observations and how I do things. If whatever you are doing is working for you then keep on doing it your way. As I said I grow for medical quality and not for quantity trying to make money. If certain strains reach the holy grail stage of great quality and great quantity while also being an easy grower then they are kept in the rotation. If a new strain is grown and overtakes one of the strains in the rotation of 15 then it bumps the lowest out. I use a 10-10-10 scale and every strain gets a rating. Of course I have a few legendary strains that I will always keep going because the phenotype I have of it is exceptional in some way and you can not find in seed form again.
All of these "fixes" require patience as nothing extraordinary happens over night. Be patient and give it a few days. New growth should appear and be normal. If not then sometimes it is best to just toss the plant and start fresh using soils and nutes as you usually use without issue.
I know this is probably way too long for most to want to read but if you did take the time I hope I have been of some use going forward in your growing endeavors.
Fast forward to the last 15 or 20 years I have grown exclusively indoors. Started doing this because by then the indoor lights had gotten to the point of being able to produce high quality herb. Indoors I can control every aspect of the grow from start to finish. I grow now exclusively for the medical community delivering very high quality organic (for the most part) herb at cost. I have grown out at least over 200 different strains. I tell you all of this not trying to brag or claim I have superior knowledge. I am naturally very curious and will try all manner of new ways to do things. Experimenting in my conditions so I can grow even better quality is my goal. I have failed many, many times spectacularly but have learned from those failures.
Now the very reason I am posting here today is the issue this forum is based on and that is nutrient deficiency or toxicity. To fix these issues requires patience and trial and error and the slow elimination of causes. It can be very tedious and it is what I call chasing rabbits. I dont like chasing rabbits because you seldom catch them if you try. This is assuming you are growing indoors in a soil of some sort. Hydro etc is a whole different concept mostly having to do with water and ppms etc. I do not grow in hydro for a few reasons. One it requires more work and if your power goes so does all your crops. During a week long power outage in the winter time I kept a 10x20 grow room warm enough by candles and the plants survived while those I knew growing in hydro lost them all. I also prefer the quality and taste of herb grown in soil versus hydro. When I say soil I also mean soil less type mediums for the most part.
So the elimination of causes is basically where you start.
Lights
Temps
Water
Soil
Nutrients
Pests
If you are using the same lights you have always used then you can probably rule that out right off. Lights dont generally cause the problems associated with our problem.
If your temps are basically staying in the same range they always have then you can probably rule that out as well.
Water is a factor all too well known to have some issue depending on what water you are using. I use tap water as where I am we have very good water quality from an aquifer and the only additive is chlorine (not chloramine) which does change seasonally to how much they add and requires to sit longer to dissipate. If you are using RO or some other form of filtered water and have not changed anything then a simple ph test will determine if your water is at neutral where it should be.
Soil or soil less mediums are and can be where chasing rabbits is quite common. Many growers think because they are using what they have always used it could not possibly be the problem. I have found that not to be true at all. The soil mix I currently use is the sunshine advanced 4 at a 50% ratio to FF Ocean Forest 50%. This gives me a good mix of organics to soil less (peat moss etc). For a few years Fox Farm had quality control issues and I stopped using it because it was basically stunting the plants growth and PH problems. I have tried countless other mixes with varying degrees of success and/or failure. Some were too high in organics and could not really control the timing of giving the plants what they needed when they needed it. Some problems I recently have come across concerns the Pro-Mix HP and BX products. I ran across this problem a few years ago and quit using them but I could not find the Sunshine Advanced 4 mix so I went with the Pro-Mix hoping they had fixed their issues. Sadly my plants went through the same problems. It was PH problems then and it is now. The minute I flushed my veg plants and transplanted using only the FF soil did they almost overnight start to spring back. At first your plants will not show the PH problem until it is too late and then you start chasing the rabbit again trying to figure out what it is. You start thinking is it the nutes or what? Cal/mag issues? What? Because PH issues will seem to show your plants are deficient in these areas when it really is the PH stopping the plant from being able to use them. I had these same issues growing in Coco with some manufacturers. There are many posts about this so no need to elaborate. The PH problem in Peat products is usually one of too low a ph and the manufacturers add lime to raise the ph in peat products. Are they not putting enough in or? All I know is I am not chasing that rabbit. Even ph testing a small amount before using may not be inclusive to the whole bale you just got. Just flush and transplant into a good potting mix and see if that works. But have patience and test on one or 2 plants first.
Nutrients are a whole different ball of wax. If you think after looking at the nutrient deficiency chart you have a good idea what you are deficient in or toxic in then you have a few ways to try and fix. Deficiency could mean adding more of what it needs and your problem is solved. But being deficient could mean you have what you need in the soil but it is locked out. Then you need to flush your plant with plain water. If it is toxicity then you need to flush the plant with plain water and then add what it is missing. Sometimes it even means to take the plant out of its container and knock off or spray off most of the soil and replant using good soil and just water.
Pests can come in a variety of forms so I wont get into each and everyone of them and how to fix. The common ones are fungus gnats and spider mites. I have dealt with both. Fungus gnats I got rid of by watering with water and hydrogen peroxide every single plant I had and then have the yellow sticky paper. All gnats gone and have never had an issue since. Spider mites I take care of by a soap and neem oil water dip and rinse and have not had any issues with them years. I spray my plants with neem weekly and keep things clean. If I ever get a clone from someone it goes into quarantine and sprayed and scoped to make sure after 10 days no signs of mites before it goes with the rest of the plants. Now I dont take clones from anyone and only grow new strains from feminized seeds. Why take chances?
These are just my observations and how I do things. If whatever you are doing is working for you then keep on doing it your way. As I said I grow for medical quality and not for quantity trying to make money. If certain strains reach the holy grail stage of great quality and great quantity while also being an easy grower then they are kept in the rotation. If a new strain is grown and overtakes one of the strains in the rotation of 15 then it bumps the lowest out. I use a 10-10-10 scale and every strain gets a rating. Of course I have a few legendary strains that I will always keep going because the phenotype I have of it is exceptional in some way and you can not find in seed form again.
All of these "fixes" require patience as nothing extraordinary happens over night. Be patient and give it a few days. New growth should appear and be normal. If not then sometimes it is best to just toss the plant and start fresh using soils and nutes as you usually use without issue.
I know this is probably way too long for most to want to read but if you did take the time I hope I have been of some use going forward in your growing endeavors.
vancoast_com
Member
Nutrient deficiencies can be avoided by being attentive and careful with the pH level of your nutrient-water solution. The reason your plant is deficient of these nutrients is because they are not getting absorbed. Incorrect levels will lock out certain nutrients thus giving you adverse effects. If you are consistent in feeding your plants their nutrients, it’s probably that the pH is either too high or low and the plant is not absorbing them.
bamboofarmer
Well-Known Member
I guess this post is ok, but i don't think it is that great. Maybe it used to be? Half the pictures are missing. A chlorine deficiency will cause bronze leaves and stop root growth?
Cannabinoid Froyd
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Could use some updating. I have plenty of issues right now and plenty of pictures to send in if they can be helpful here.
RastaLove91
Well-Known Member
Thank you for this! This is one of the most valuable inputs I’ve come across in a very long time! All the best to you!
jjcultivation
Member
Ok guys having this issue come up a couple weeks in veg. Any ideas to help out? Thank you very much
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raggyb
Well-Known Member
I believe that's calcium deficiency but it does look like you're feeding them so maybe it's toxicity? what are you doing water and feed and soil wise?
crisnpropa
Well-Known Member
Anybody can help determine whats happening here ?
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
since it's on upper leaves and the rest of the plant looks ok, i'm going to say at least partially calcium deficiency. i would make up a spray bottle of cal mag and give them a good foliar feeding, while also supplementing the amount of calcium you give them in your nutrient solution. maybe a little septoria, too...wouldn't hurt to apply some kind of fungicide. i like southern ag garden friendly fungicide, personally. it's a bacteria that will out compete the septoria and then die off when it runs out of food.
but mostly it looks like calcium.
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Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
magnesium deficiency?....going by https://www.growweedeasy.com/cannabis-plant-problems/magnesium-deficiency
Zivahanmladic
Member
This stalk “broke” a bit in the middle of the first month, I tied it up with something and came back to life as I see it just a little behind the others, will it affect it in any way?
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Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
probably not, i "monster crop" too tall plants regularly, which is intentionally crushing a stem while trying not to damage the bark. they bend at that point, and usually grow a big knuckle there, then just keep on growing. you may have to support that plant, or it may grow a knuckle, but as long as the bark in intact, they'll live
Bizzie2410
New Member
Ehh I'm thinking zinc deficient... I'm not too sure what's going on with my leaves. Ending week 6 of flower. 
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Bizzie2410
New Member
Thanks for the help, not. Smh now I gotta chop mid week7
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OhNo555
Well-Known Member
Good chart