2022 elections. The steady march for sanity continues.

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Kinzinger says it’s ‘disgusting’ for Democratic groups to back GOP election deniers in hopes of general election wins
“You’re gonna have election deniers win. So while I think a certain number of Democrats truly understand that democracy is threatened, don’t come to me after having spent money supporting an election denier in a primary, and then come to me and say, ‘where are all the good Republicans,’ you’re worried about democracy,” he said.


“I truly believe that all these issues we argue about, they matter. But the thing that matters the most right now is the threat to our democracy. It’s the thing our kids will judge us by and when we’re sitting here playing DCCC, you know, DNC politics, let’s promote the crazy, and then that person wins, you don’t understand the real threat. I’m sorry, you don’t understand the threat to democracy,” he added, referring to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) and the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

Rep. Kinzinger, your complaint would carry weight if there were a plurality of uncontaminated Republicans left standing after the orange pogrom.

It sounds an awful lot like “you are using dirty tricks you stole from OUR playbook!”

Mr. Kinzinger, you continue to give your allegiance to a counterdemocratic institution, so why seek sympathy from the public y’all are stripmining?

Sincerely, a constituent resource
 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
Rep. Kinzinger, your complaint would carry weight if there were a plurality of uncontaminated Republicans left standing after the orange pogrom.

It sounds an awful lot like “you are using dirty tricks you stole from OUR playbook!”

Mr. Kinzinger, you continue to give your allegiance to a counterdemocratic institution, so why seek sympathy from the public y’all are stripmining?

Sincerely, a constituent resource
I don’t think he’s seeking sympathy at all and it appears to me his allegiance is to the country over any party. He has sacrificed his career for the sake of fighting to save your democracy. He believes the republic is standing on shaky ground and any games being played by either side are dangerous at this point in time.

I agree with him.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I don’t think he’s seeking sympathy at all and it appears to me his allegiance is to the country over any party. He has sacrificed his career for the sake of fighting to save your democracy. He believes the republic is standing on shaky ground and any games being played by either side are dangerous at this point in time.

I agree with him.
No. Had he been good from 2016, we would have noticed because the Repugs generally vote en bloc.

I’ll tell you what’s disgusting.
It’s not that the Dems are doing this.

It’s that they’re doing it to survive.

The GQP has been playing their kind of dirty for so long, so hard, that Rep. Kinzinger’s complaint is hypocritical. Just as while I am very pleased with Sen. Cheney’s performance, I begrudge her her part in terminal legislative constipation. Her current behavior contrasts with her previous, but it does not redeem her previous complacency or collusion while that man was throwing ketchup at the republic.
 
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CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
The GQP has been playing the kind of dirty for so long, so hard, that Rep. Kinzinger’s complaint is hypocritical.
I don’t see it that way. He has been calling out Republicans for a while now and I believe he is putting his country above himself or his party.

If the Democrats are playing games with Republican primaries at this time, when democracy already has a tenuous hold, I understand his complaint.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Kinzinger seems like a pretty decent guy, all things considered, but in this, i have to say, fuck him.
the republicans have been cheating their fucking asses off for decades, while the democrats have been playing fair and paying for it.
if the democrats want a little pay back that is entirely legal and within the letter of the law, then fuck any hypocrite that doesn't like it.
if the republicans quit fucking cheating and played fair from this day forward, the democrats would be justified in cheating them for the next ten years.
I get his point. By getting more of these abominations on the ballot it just legitimizes them. And even if they lost the movement will get greater acceptance. Think Germany and the rise of Hitler. Lot of good people voted for the Third Reich. Already half the US (a poll I read about) think there will be a civil war in the near future.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
No. Had he been good from 2016, we would have noticed because the Repugs generally vote en bloc.

I’ll tell you what’s disgusting.
It’s not that the Dems are doing this.

It’s that they’re doing it to survive.

The GQP has been playing their kind of dirty for so long, so hard, that Rep. Kinzinger’s complaint is hypocritical. Just as while I am very pleased with Sen. Cheney’s performance, I begrudge her her part in terminal legislative constipation. Her current behavior contrasts with her previous, but it does not redeem her previous complacency or collusion while that man was throwing ketchup at the republic.
Actually he has been anti-Trump for quite some time. Cheney also. She makes no bones about being a hard right Republican. But she thinks her aims should be done legally. I do not agree with her politics but she is respectful. That is not a word I would cal a MAGA.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I don’t see it that way. He has been calling out Republicans for a while now and I believe he is putting his country above himself or his party.

If the Democrats are playing games with Republican primaries at this time, when democracy already has a tenuous hold, I understand his complaint.
I don't have a issue with him saying what he said. I just question the use of 'Democrats', it is like someone coming on here and painting everyone with the what some other account says by saying 'you lefties here...'.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I don’t see it that way. He has been calling out Republicans for a while now and I believe he is putting his country above himself or his party.

If the Democrats are playing games with Republican primaries at this time, when democracy already has a tenuous hold, I understand his complaint.
Oh, I don't know if his complaint is all that pure.

Kinzinger's voting record is pretty bad from a progressive point of view. He voted against the voting rights act, for example. And, what will he do if, as expected, Republicans sweep into control of the House after the fall election? Sure, he will be treated as a pariah but the MTG types but he will still vote mostly with them.

Make no mistake, Republicans are using every trick in the book, legal or not, to gain advantage. Including suppressing the vote, which Kinzinger supports. The way I see it, when Democrats give a boost in the primary to woo woo GQP MAGA Big Lie supporter type candidates who have no chance in the general election, they are fighting for our democracy. They must play by the rules, I'm not saying they should play dirty. But there is no rule against supporting Trump's zombies in order to kill off their attempt to disenfranchise the majority in the US.

Not saying win by any means but if a legal political maneuver irritates a Republican, it's a sign that that method is effective. The objective is to win.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I don’t see it that way. He has been calling out Republicans for a while now and I believe he is putting his country above himself or his party.

If the Democrats are playing games with Republican primaries at this time, when democracy already has a tenuous hold, I understand his complaint.
Perhaps I am not giving him a break. I did read that he calls his first vote (not to impeach) his “biggest regret”.

But I feel that he is trying to repent on the cheap. Had he stayed, how would he deal with the next guy who picks up where that man left it? There I’m not sure, and I’m also feeling risk-adverse.

Currently I believe (with only mild conviction) that the GOP is beyond rescue. Too riddled with racists and Jesus jihadis.
I do wonder if a new centrist (or not far enough to the right to label everything left of Genghis “socialist”) party will emerge.

He is retiring in December. January
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't know if his complaint is all that pure.

Kinzinger's voting record is pretty bad from a progressive point of view. He voted against the voting rights act, for example. And, what will he do if, as expected, Republicans sweep into control of the House after the fall election? Sure, he will be treated as a pariah but the MTG types but he will still vote mostly with them.

Make no mistake, Republicans are using every trick in the book, legal or not, to gain advantage. Including suppressing the vote, which Kinzinger supports. The way I see it, when Democrats give a boost in the primary to woo woo GQP MAGA Big Lie supporter type candidates who have no chance in the general election, they are fighting for our democracy. They must play by the rules, I'm not saying they should play dirty. But there is no rule against supporting Trump's zombies in order to kill off their attempt to disenfranchise the majority in the US.

Not saying win by any means but if a legal political maneuver irritates a Republican, it's a sign that that method is effective. The objective is to win.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/29/rep-adam-kinzinger-wont-seek-reelection-next-year-517599
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
quitting is not an effective means of opposition.

our democracy is at risk and he goes awol.

Sorry, but I don't like Republicans. Never have. I will say, he's not the worst of their kind. I would rather Republicans compete with ideas. Quitting isn't a good idea. But he's not the worst.
I grew up Republican. The deconditioning is slow. Guns were a tough one. But when I saw the 2A crowd doing almost all the violence of the last years - and the real police treating them like frat buddies - that broke something. I exited the church of the gun.
 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't know if his complaint is all that pure.

Kinzinger's voting record is pretty bad from a progressive point of view. He voted against the voting rights act, for example. And, what will he do if, as expected, Republicans sweep into control of the House after the fall election? Sure, he will be treated as a pariah but the MTG types but he will still vote mostly with them.

Make no mistake, Republicans are using every trick in the book, legal or not, to gain advantage. Including suppressing the vote, which Kinzinger supports. The way I see it, when Democrats give a boost in the primary to woo woo GQP MAGA Big Lie supporter type candidates who have no chance in the general election, they are fighting for our democracy. They must play by the rules, I'm not saying they should play dirty. But there is no rule against supporting Trump's zombies in order to kill off their attempt to disenfranchise the majority in the US.

Not saying win by any means but if a legal political maneuver irritates a Republican, it's a sign that that method is effective. The objective is to win.
I was responding to a post that labelled him a hypocrite, which I don’t believe is fair.

I admit I don’t know much about him or his voting record. From what I’ve learned recently though, he’s dedicated much of his life to serving his country. I believe he is genuinely disgusted with any attempt at subverting democracy and has called out his own party for this at great risk to himself and his family.

I agree with you that the Democrats have a right to do whatever it takes, legally, to win. I don’t have a problem with them using dirty tactics but I understand Kinzinger’s point of view that it can be dangerous. Particularly at this point in time.

Democrats spending millions to prop up Republican fringe candidates is playing with fire, IMO.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I grew up Republican. The deconditioning is slow. Guns were a tough one. But when I saw the 2A crowd doing almost all the violence of the last years - and the real police treating them like frat buddies - that broke something. I exited the church of the gun.
That's a hot point for sure. Republicans OWN the issue by jumping immediately to this idea that gun regulations mean taking guns away from people for no good reason. This triggers an emotional response and reason goes out the window. It's also an absurd idea and something nobody seriously proposes. But there it is. People who want to maintain the status quo basically end the discussion by calling anybody who wants to reduce gun homicide an idiot.

But they don't stop with that tactic there. It's used in the abortion debate -- "kill babies". It's used in the culture war -- "protect kids from gay teachers who would groom them for sex". It's used in climate change -- "want to wreck our economy". Or race -- replacement theory. All of which are absurd notions that appeal to emotion, not reason.

Which circles back to why I don't like Republicans.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
House Republicans reveal election legislation likely to be a priority in a GOP majority
House Republicans unveiled election legislation likely to serve as the leading response to concerns about the 2020 elections in a GOP majority, taking aim at “Zuckerbucks” and “ballot harvesting” while promoting preferred election administration in states.

Titled the American Confidence in Elections Act, the bill announced by House Administration Committee ranking member Rodney Davis (R-Ill.) is largely crafted around the principle that states have the primary role in elections.

That draws contrast to Democrats’ main election reform bill, H.R. 1, or the For the People Act, that has a long list of sweeping voter reforms and requirements.

The GOP bill establishes a standards board to serve as a best-practices forum, including on mail ballots, signature verification procedures, timely ballot counting and post-election audits.

“We don’t want to be H.R. 1 2.0. We want something that’s going to work,” Davis said at a roundtable Wednesday. “We’ve been able to craft a bill that’s reflective of ideas from a very large and diverse set of stakeholders and that has a clear path to passing in the House of Representatives next Congress when Republicans take over the majority.”

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) will be an original co-sponsor of the legislation, Davis said.

The bill imposes a number of requirements to ensure only eligible American citizens vote, including penalizing states’ ability to receive federal funds for election systems if they allow noncitizen voting in state or local elections. A federal judge last month struck down a New York City law that would have allowed noncitizen residents to vote in city elections, though Republicans have repeatedly pointed to noncitizen voting risks.

A section first introduced by Rep. Claudia Tenney (R-N.Y.), co-chair of the Election Integrity Caucus, would prohibit 501(c)3 nonprofit organizations from directly funding election boards.

The provision is a response to GOP uproar about “Zuckerbucks,” a reference to Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg pouring millions into a nonprofit that sent money to election boards in 2020. Republicans allege that the money was used for voter communication efforts without ordinary oversight, benefited “overwhelmingly Democratic precincts” and funded activities that Republicans oppose like ballot drop boxes.

Taking aim at so-called ballot harvesting, the practice of allowing individuals to collect and deliver absentee ballots on behalf of other voters, the bill also prohibits states to use funds on election administration for federal offices unless it includes certain restrictions on who can collect ballots. Only postal employees, family members, household members, caregivers and authorized election officials could collect and transmit ballots for others.

Republican Kansas Secretary of State Scott Schwab offered an analogy when talking about the need for voter ID during the roundtable: “If there’s no cops watching the speed on the highway, then there’s people breaking the law.”

Also at the roundtable was conservative lawyer Cleta Mitchell, who participated in a phone call between former President Trump and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger (R) in which Trump asked Raffensperger to “find” enough votes so he could win the state.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I was responding to a post that labelled him a hypocrite, which I don’t believe is fair.

I admit I don’t know much about him or his voting record. From what I’ve learned recently though, he’s dedicated much of his life to serving his country. I believe he is genuinely disgusted with any attempt at subverting democracy and has called out his own party for this at great risk to himself and his family.

I agree with you that the Democrats have a right to do whatever it takes, legally, to win. I don’t have a problem with them using dirty tactics but I understand Kinzinger’s point of view that it can be dangerous. Particularly at this point in time.

Democrats spending millions to prop up Republican fringe candidates is playing with fire, IMO.
Open primaries will reduce the number of wingnuts and radicals and hopefully reduce political tribalism. Few are members of a political party here and most voters are pretty fickle and not so tied to party, it's more about policy and issues. However the conservatives try to play culture wars here too and the freedumb convoy illustrated that, people most often act out of emotion, rather than reason and votes are actions.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Wondering how many diapers Joe has soiled today? Along with his giggling VP.
My money would be on zero. Unless you are talking about all the people brainwashed by Fox shitting themselves or insurrectionist/2nd amendment/prep'er types who are wearing them while surveilling their local schools to figure out how to shoot them up or something?
 
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