Over watering? Nutrient lock out? Pics included.

MidnightTrain

Well-Known Member
Update, the run off I was checking wasn't from the current plants I don't know what it was from but I'm assuming it was from the previous run. Chalking it up to heat stress, apparently the room was around 90 for 2 or 3 days in a row before this and they have since bounced back, thank you all for the help and advice.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
By that logic, I am assuming you think there is more oxygen in water than air... and that you think roots can respire in un-aerated water. Damn this is depressing. Please go read more. Plants aren't fish.
you don't grow in coco do you? if you did, you'd know that as a medium, coco coir provides great aeration to the root zone. so not only does the medium provide O2 to the roots but each watering adds more O2 to the root zone.

you are correct about one thing: this is depressing
 

cougheeesm

Well-Known Member
you don't grow in coco do you? if you did, you'd know that as a medium, coco coir provides great aeration to the root zone. so not only does the medium provide O2 to the roots but each watering adds more O2 to the root zone.

you are correct about one thing: this is depressing
The only way watering coco adds more oxygen is if you had a completely saturated medium, to begin with. You are arguing that a glass full of water has more oxygen than an empty glass... My first and most recent grow were in coco. Most grows I have done consultation for have been coco.
IMG_2672.jpg
 
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cougheeesm

Well-Known Member
let me ask it this way then as a potential customer:

where does a plants' roots get oxygen from in a coco coir medium? list them all if more than one please.
Plant roots in coco or soil should be getting most of their oxygen from the air (all the tiny air pockets in your media also called soil pores) and much less from the water. This is why they usually put things like perlite in your coco mix and people stress not having compact media (which over-watering also contributes to). If you have mycorrhizae in your media, they also perform better when it isn't over-saturated. Hydroponic-based systems generally use things like air stones to provide air to the root zone... Do you know why? There isn't enough oxygen in plain ol' water to sustain optimal root health. Ideally, media should always be moist. Not completely saturated.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Plant roots in coco or soil should be getting most of their oxygen from the air (all the tiny air pockets in your media also called soil pores) and much less from the water
so just to be clear, roots get oxygen from the water that you use to feed plants in coco. glad you finally came around to what i've been saying.

i'm surprised people actually pay you for your wealth of knowledge.
 

cougheeesm

Well-Known Member
oh, and this...

soil pores would be in soil, right? thought we were talking about coco?
It is just what the air pockets in your media is called. Just a horticultural term. It is the same thing as the aeration in coco that you explained.

so just to be clear, roots get oxygen from the water that you use to feed plants in coco. glad you finally came around to what i've been saying.
Again... A quick search online could get you educated on the respiration of roots. It is basic knowledge that a tomato-growing grandma would even know. I have said multiple times, that you are correct about there being oxygen in the water. That is also basic knowledge. But, it shouldn't take someone smart to know that you need aeration in your media (i.e. air), and that a media fully saturated has less air. Move on, and get an education. Or just use the computer in front of you to get a better grip on how plants function.

According to you, it is impossible to over-water or over-fertilize coco, water is richer in oxygen than air, and coco somehow magically produces oxygen. I guess I am learning so much in these forums that I could have never learned with over a decade in the field and just about half that time in school. Thanks for the amazing insight. Have fun pissing in your solo cups :clap:
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the amazing insight. Have fun pissing in your solo cups
you got it, boss!

this consulting seems like a pretty easy gig. you just tell people they are wrong and then a few days later tell them they were correct. easy-peasy.

one final question if i do decide to pick up consulting work, when you saw that grow room you put up the pic from, did you ask them how and why they grow such spindly-looking plants? in laymen terms, i call them angel hair spaghetti stalks and stems. not sure what you guys in the industry call them?
 

Megalomando

Well-Known Member
@ rkymtnman;
so just to be clear, roots get oxygen from the water that you use to feed plants in coco. glad you finally came around to what i've been saying.

i'm surprised people actually pay you for your wealth of knowledge.
Cough is correct. If you put a fish in collected distilled water it will die of suffocation. It's the O2 diffusing (diffusing is the operative word here) from the atmosphere into the H2O that provides the available O2 for a fish to breath. The O2 that's in H2O is a bonded, stable molecule and that stable H2O is not a free provider of H or O, it takes an external force for example, electrolysis, to release either. The reason people use O2 bubblers in their aquarium is to saturate the H2O with oxygen to give the fish the O2 they need; the surface area of the air on top of the water in a fish tank being insufficient to diffuse enough O2 into the water for the fish to live.

Along with the above; water coming from far away through pipes or coming up from underground as from a well is depleted of oxygen, that's why the aerator in your sink for drinking water and why an airstone provides available O2 to the water we use.

Coco's inherent air pockets are another advantage to using Coco as a medium: Coco needs to be watered more frequently than soil as coco does not retain as much water as soil. If you water in a timely fashion the plant gets the benefit of coco's air pockets supplying O2 to the roots without drying out the roots.

Too many people on here with an attitude is not a plus. Attitude is a turn-off and disservice to everyone.

My 2 pence
 
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rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
@ rkymtnman;


Cough is correct. If you put a fish in collected distilled water it will die of suffocation. It's the O2 diffusing (diffusing is the operative word here) from the atmosphere into the H2O that provides the available O2 for a fish to breath. The O2 that's in H2O is a bonded, stable molecule and that stable H2O is not a free provider of H or O, it takes an external force for example, electrolysis, to release either. The reason people use O2 bubblers in their aquarium is to saturate the H2O with oxygen to give the fish the O2 they need; the surface area of the air on top of the water in a fish tank being insufficient to diffuse enough O2 into the water for the fish to live.

Along with the above; water coming from far away through pipes or coming up from underground as from a well is depleted of oxygen, that's why the aerator in your sink for drinking water and why an airstone provides available O2 to the water we use.

Coco's inherent air pockets are another advantage to using Coco as a medium: Coco needs to be watered more frequently than soil as coco does not retain as much water as soil. If you water in a timely fashion the plant gets the benefit of coco's air pockets supplying O2 to the roots without drying out the roots.

Too many people on here with an attitude is not a plus. Attitude is a turn-off and disservice to everyone.

My 2 pence
So you also agree. The act of watering coco adds oxygen. Do you think using a watering can adds oxygen? Do you think using a pump into a feed line above the coco adds oxygen? Seems weird both of you try to use fish to try to prove your point?
 

weedstoner420

Well-Known Member
So you also agree. The act of watering coco adds oxygen. Do you think using a watering can adds oxygen? Do you think using a pump into a feed line above the coco adds oxygen? Seems weird both of you try to use fish to try to prove your point?
I thought dissolved oxygen came from exposing water to air? Air pumps do that by injecting air in the form of bubbles, but aren't there other methods of oxygenating DWC with waterfalls or "flooms" that just circulate the water and don't create bubbles?

I figured pouring fresh water through the medium would bring oxygen into the root zone because the water is exposed to air as it passes through the medium...
 

Megalomando

Well-Known Member
So you also agree. The act of watering coco adds oxygen. Do you think using a watering can adds oxygen? Do you think using a pump into a feed line above the coco adds oxygen? Seems weird both of you try to use fish to try to prove your point?
Sometimes it's hard to determine what is ignorance vs sarcasm.

"Do you think using a watering can adds oxygen?": No, a watering can does not provide oxygen. Some diffusion will happen to the droplets as they fall through the air.

IF the water is oxygenated, YES the act of watering coco adds oxygen. IF the water added to coco is depleted of oxygen then NO, adding O2 depleted water will NOT add oxygen.

"Do you think using a pump into a feed line above the coco adds oxygen?": It can albeit not as well as a sustained supply of oxygenation to O2 depleted H2O. Use a real world example of injecting CO2 to kegged beer; kegged beer is CO2 depleted but adding CO2 to a feed line does carbonate the flat beer coming from a keg.

"Seems weird both of you try to use fish to try to prove your point?": Fish understand the presence of the diffused O2 in H2O.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
"Do you think using a watering can adds oxygen?": No,
it most certainly does. the splashing of the water as it pours from the can hitting the surface of the coco creates dissolved oxygen.

the act of water being poured on top draws oxygen thru the coco as it makes it's way to the bottom of the pot and as it replaces the older water.

edit: from aerifyplants.com: they suggest a watering can for this. weird, huh @Megalomando in this place soil is no different than coco

A fast, drenching overhead watering will work to clean your soil of toxins and excess salts and force oxygen into the soil’s innermost layers
 
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rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
IF the water is oxygenated, YES the act of watering coco adds oxygen. IF the water added to coco is depleted of oxygen then NO, adding O2 depleted water will NOT add oxygen
that's wrong. adding feed water to a watering can oygenates it. water coming out of a feed line splashing onto coco oxygenates it.

stick to fish, me thinks.
 
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