Is Biden really that bad?

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CANON_Grow

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
You know how you shake your head when you see MAGA folk frothing at the mouth when defending the orange avenger, when they just start babbling on about whatever, thinking they are making a valid counterpoint? The ones that get all loud and boisterous thinking they pwned anyone that is not fully on board with MAGA? The ones that feel obligated to call Cheney and Kinzinger RINO's? Has there ever been a time when you saw that happening and thought they made a valid point, or got you to reconsider your own viewpoint?

Being critical of Biden does not make someone a MAGA supporter, or racist, or not supportive of Democrat idea's, or even Biden himself. Using the argument that voting for a Republican is worse, is not going to get more people to vote for Biden. Questioning this administrations actions does not make someone a cult member, now not questioning them...... is cult like behaviour. To say that someone is against union's when their stance fully supported those unions positions, is MAGA-like thinking.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
CANON_Grow said:
You know how you shake your head when you see MAGA folk frothing at the mouth when defending the orange avenger, when they just start babbling on about whatever, thinking they are making a valid counterpoint? The ones that get all loud and boisterous thinking they pwned anyone that is not fully on board with MAGA? The ones that feel obligated to call Cheney and Kinzinger RINO's? Has there ever been a time when you saw that happening and thought they made a valid point, or got you to reconsider your own viewpoint?

Being critical of Biden does not make someone a MAGA supporter, or racist, or not supportive of Democrat idea's, or even Biden himself. Using the argument that voting for a Republican is worse, is not going to get more people to vote for Biden. Questioning this administrations actions does not make someone a cult member, now not questioning them...... is cult like behaviour. To say that someone is against union's when their stance fully supported those unions positions, is MAGA-like thinking.
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I cannot speak to your second paragraph; it appears to contain ambiguities.

But to the first: Maga is built on a foundation of serious untruths. Thus by default, someone’s making a valid point from inside a false frame doesn’t happen.
Also by default, someone making a valid point from within a self-consistent set of values identified as conservative is operating outside of the maga doctrine.
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
You know how you shake your head when you see MAGA folk frothing at the mouth when defending the orange avenger, when they just start babbling on about whatever, thinking they are making a valid counterpoint? The ones that get all loud and boisterous thinking they pwned anyone that is not fully on board with MAGA? The ones that feel obligated to call Cheney and Kinzinger RINO's? Has there ever been a time when you saw that happening and thought they made a valid point, or got you to reconsider your own viewpoint?

Being critical of Biden does not make someone a MAGA supporter, or racist, or not supportive of Democrat idea's, or even Biden himself. Using the argument that voting for a Republican is worse, is not going to get more people to vote for Biden. Questioning this administrations actions does not make someone a cult member, now not questioning them...... is cult like behaviour. To say that someone is against union's when their stance fully supported those unions positions, is MAGA-like thinking.
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I really don’t care who votes for who. My opinion isn’t going to change anyone’s. And it’s not my mission. Popular vote doesn’t even matter. As PJ said he lives in Cali and his vote doesn’t count. Just like I live in a red state, my vote doesn’t either. People can be critical of whoever they want, It’s America. Mr “unionism” wants union support but doesn’t want to support the ONLY party to do anything for unions. Independents surely don’t do anything to support unions either, as there isn’t enough of them to make a difference.

I don’t question anything Dems do because no matter what they do it’s going to be better than anything republicans are going to do for the country. Look at history. Recessions, wars, and dividing the country are all republicans agenda. I don’t get down with any of those. So I don’t support republicans.

As long as it’s only a two party system we’re stuck with two mediocre choices
 
V256.420

V256.420

Well-Known Member
I want a one party system.

For example,

"Hi, nice to meet you all. I'm a human being and these are the things I would like to do to help this country advance and be prosperous for everyone."

No dems, no repubs. Just people. The Human Being Party.

Too simple I guess.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
You know how you shake your head when you see MAGA folk frothing at the mouth when defending the orange avenger, when they just start babbling on about whatever, thinking they are making a valid counterpoint? The ones that get all loud and boisterous thinking they pwned anyone that is not fully on board with MAGA? The ones that feel obligated to call Cheney and Kinzinger RINO's? Has there ever been a time when you saw that happening and thought they made a valid point, or got you to reconsider your own viewpoint?

Being critical of Biden does not make someone a MAGA supporter, or racist, or not supportive of Democrat idea's, or even Biden himself. Using the argument that voting for a Republican is worse, is not going to get more people to vote for Biden. Questioning this administrations actions does not make someone a cult member, now not questioning them...... is cult like behaviour. To say that someone is against union's when their stance fully supported those unions positions, is MAGA-like thinking.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this ^^ -- probably one of the best posts I've ever seen here in politics.

You and I have disagreed several times in the past, but watching your posts over time has caused me to grow a strong respect for you, regardless of the fact that we will likely continue to disagree on many points in the future as well.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
V256.420 said:
I want a one party system.

For example,

"Hi, nice to meet you all. I'm a human being and these are the things I would like to do to help this country advance and be prosperous for everyone."

No dems, no repubs. Just people. The Human Being Party.
Click to expand...
download.png
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
I really don’t care who votes for who. My opinion isn’t going to change anyone’s. And it’s not my mission. Popular vote doesn’t even matter. As PJ said he lives in Cali and his vote doesn’t count. Just like I live in a red state, my vote doesn’t either. People can be critical of whoever they want, It’s America. Mr “unionism” wants union support but doesn’t want to support the ONLY party to do anything for unions. Independents surely don’t do anything to support unions either, as there isn’t enough of them to make a difference.

I don’t question anything Dems do because no matter what they do it’s going to be better than anything republicans are going to do for the country. Look at history. Recessions, wars, and dividing the country are all republicans agenda. I don’t get down with any of those. So I don’t support republicans.

As long as it’s only a two party system we’re stuck with two mediocre choices
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i don't completely disagree with you, but why do you think more parties = better choices?
have you read any of what they EU members say about living in countries with many parties? most of them are not valid choices, and none of them can get much done without unreasonable concessions to "allies"...
 
CANON_Grow

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
I really don’t care who votes for who. My opinion isn’t going to change anyone’s. And it’s not my mission. Popular vote doesn’t even matter. As PJ said he lives in Cali and his vote doesn’t count. Just like I live in a red state, my vote doesn’t either. People can be critical of whoever they want, It’s America. Mr “unionism” wants union support but doesn’t want to support the ONLY party to do anything for unions. Independents surely don’t do anything to support unions either, as there isn’t enough of them to make a difference.

I don’t question anything Dems do because no matter what they do it’s going to be better than anything republicans are going to do for the country. Look at history. Recessions, wars, and dividing the country are all republicans agenda. I don’t get down with any of those. So I don’t support republicans.

As long as it’s only a two party system we’re stuck with two mediocre choices
Click to expand...
Your opinion might cause someone else to look at their own beliefs from a different viewpoint, even if that is not your mission. I disagree about not enough independents to make a difference, they make up 42% of voters (unless you meant actual politicians, but I would argue a single politician holds lots of power right now i.e. Manchin).

Just because Dems are better at governing for the vast majority of the population doesn't mean you shouldn't question them. Don't let the tail wag the dog, politicians need to answer to the voters, they work for you. Holding politicians feet to the fire doesn't mean you support the other side, it gives them the opportunity to represent your views. You may believe your vote doesn't count, but just look at how close Boebert was to getting turfed in what was deemed slam dunk district.
 
CANON_Grow

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Thank you for this ^^ -- probably one of the best posts I've ever seen here in politics.

You and I have disagreed several times in the past, but watching your posts over time has caused me to grow a strong respect for you, regardless of the fact that we will likely continue to disagree on many points in the future as well.
Click to expand...
This would all be too boring and not worth the time or effort if we all just agreed.
1678082690597.png
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
Your opinion might cause someone else to look at their own beliefs from a different viewpoint, even if that is not your mission. I disagree about not enough independents to make a difference, they make up 42% of voters (unless you meant actual politicians, but I would argue a single politician holds lots of power right now i.e. Manchin).

Just because Dems are better at governing for the vast majority of the population doesn't mean you shouldn't question them. Don't let the tail wag the dog, politicians need to answer to the voters, they work for you. Holding politicians feet to the fire doesn't mean you support the other side, it gives them the opportunity to represent your views. You may believe your vote doesn't count, but just look at how close Boebert was to getting turfed in what was deemed slam dunk district.
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I’m only talking about presidential elections. My vote doesn’t count because of the rigged way the electoral college is setup. Look at how much is spent on “swing” states.

If you disagree about independents please list the last one to be president. They stand zero chance of being elected because the way the two party system is set up.

Republicans make it an easy choice for me. Just like @doublejj says “vote blue no matter who”. Doesn’t mean I blindly follow or like them, just means they’re always the better choice because of their beliefs IMO. So yes I would vote for a dem over a Republican 100 times out of 100 because of what the parties represent. Whether it’s policy on abortion, war, taking care of vets, govt assistance, healthcare, or just dealing with other counties, history has shown that Dems care more about ordinary people and not billionaires and corporations. I’m neither a billionaire or corporation, so I side with dem policy over republican every time. I don’t even need to see the candidates. Are there bad ones, and do I question things sure. But overall history proves Dems are just better for the country. Every republican president equals a recession. Whether it’s pissing money away on a wall or fighting wars over religion. There’s a million examples. “Fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here” one dumb policy or mindset after another. Arming kids and teachers to limit school shootings. Again stupid. I can’t get on board with one thing they do. Their logic is flawed IMO.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
If you disagree about independents please list the last one to be president. They stand zero chance of being elected because the way the two party system is set up.
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not the independent candidate...they fucking lose.
Independent VOTERS are important. They out number both republicans and democrats, and both sides have to try to appeal to as many of them as possible.
Independent candidates are a joke, at least at the minute, and probably for many minutes yet to come. Efforts to start a third party just don't seem to gain any traction. It would require either the backing of someone like Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, with the finances to widely promote the idea, or someone like Barack Obama to get involved with it and promote it nationally before anyone would even begin to take a third party seriously, and then they would still have to get some decent people with good ideas involved, or they would just hit a dead end, even with significant backing.
 
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