Cannasaurus Rex
Well-Known Member
I was astonished to find out that only 5% of American Black people are direct descendants of North American slavery.
Canadian Stuff
- Thread starter DIY-HP-LED
- Start date
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
The French astronauts were the foodies and the other ones commented about how nuts they were about it!
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DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
As Jesus said, where better a physician than with the sick, so my association with sinners can be explained away...
That's why I post a lot of videos explaining the truth of things to the heathen, this is the only time many of them get outside their bubbles, to come here and defend the indefensible, so while they are here...
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
There was a lot of rape by slave owners, it was called "improving the stock".
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
that cries for the link to the supporting text, and how the question was asked.
I would be very surprised if the proportion of African Americans with no slave(s) in their ancestry were not a small minority.
Also, slavery was an institution; the word you want is slaves.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Yes, we too have the wondrous, culinary delight known as potato salad.
If you’ve been eating freeze dried food from a bag for 6 months, you would probably look forward to eating anything else. Even potato salad.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
When I search Sowell in your posts, only today’s mention turns up. Should I be using another keyword, and what is it?
Cannasaurus Rex
Well-Known Member
http://scarboroughhistorical.ca/products-page/publications/a-history-of-scarborough/ If you're from T.O. this is a fantastic read. I have a pdf doc of it if anyone is interested and can't find it...
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Are you looking in the correct dimension?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Why are you not providing the link to text? It is the claimant’s obligation to document. You seem to be directing me to a video, which does not qualify as a reference.
When I search “sowell percent slaves” generally, I find only irrelevancies.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
You seem surprised. Why?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Because I am old enough to assume that any literate adult who makes a consequential claim possesses the unwillingness to be caught slinging nonsense, which is plainly a shameful thing.
The sharp underestimation of how many African Americans have one or more slaves in their family tree is the sort of bs bigots tell themselves to justify more bigotry, like ridiculing critical race theory. There’s the consequence.
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CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
If you remain silent you will learn more. In turn, we will learn less about you.
classic win-win situation.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
To the first paragraph, you’ve been here long enough to know better than to assume such a thing. To the second paragraph, amen. If I implied there were no consequences to frivolous claims like this, it was not intentional.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
(hangs head in sorrow) I know; I know!
I still like to give people the benefit of the doubt. The occasional upside surprise is pleasant when it comes along.
Cannasaurus Rex
Well-Known Member
Yeah didn't have anyone to send me to an American college. Had to pay my own way.
Cannasaurus Rex
Well-Known Member
None of us would have this quasi-legal forum to interact on, if it weren't for 'bad' people breaking 'unjust laws' So whine:whine situation , eh? Peace
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
This thread is about Canadian stuff, so I'm not sure why the topic drifted into the topic of generational race based slavery in the US. Possibly it got there when reparations to Canada's First People was brought up? In any case, I thought I'd post this up to counter the the idea that reparations should be made to people who can "prove" they are entitled to them by "proving" their lineage:
reparationscomm.org
I extracted a couple of points made in the essay that might apply to the debate in Canada regarding reparations for harm done to Canada's First People.
Top 10 reasons why lineage-based reparations is a bad plan
7. It asks the victims of a criminal enterprise to solve a crime.
Imagine if someone managed to escape from a ring of kidnappers. The kidnappers, knowing they were guilty, began to free their victims. Half the people are free when the cops burst in, and half are still in chains. How would they determine who was a kidnap victim and who was a kidnapper?
I have no idea.
All I know is that the worst way to solve the crime would be to ask the people who weren’t in chains to solve the crime. Yet, that’s what the California task force proposes. And, when it comes to reparations, this is not just a hypothetical scenario. Although California was supposed to be a free state, as many as 1,500 Black people were illegally transported to Califonia between 1849 and 1861. I suspect it will be hard for native Californians who actually descended from enslaved people to find documentation of their ancestors’ theft.
I don’t want to sound like a bigot but, in my experience, thieves are usually terrible at record-keeping.
6. Reparations for African-Americans should not be limited to slavery.
The dollar value of the free labor stolen between 1776 and 1865 is just a fraction of what was stolen from Africans in America. In 1865, America was 89 years old and there were 4 million Black people enslaved in the U.S. Eighty-four years after emancipation, 15 million Black people were subject to Jim Crow, redlining, unequal wages and the theft of their tax dollars. As I wrote in 2020, the intergenerational transfer of Black wealth that came after slavery may be more than what was taken during slavery.
Think about the tax dollars collected that were used to build whites-only schools, public accommodations and institutions of higher learning to which Black people had no access. How about the devaluing of real estate as a result of redlining or the GI Bill that wasn’t available to Black veterans or banks that legally excluded Black customers but were federally insured with Black tax dollars. The New Deal—the largest social program in American history—built the middle class for white America with Black tax dollars. How about the wage inequality, credit disparities and employment opportunities that still persist? All of this didn’t just suddenly end in 1865.
All Black people are inheritors of the legacy of slavery.
I know the situation is different. But just saying, divvying up reparations according to how a person can prove they deserve it puts the responsibility on the victims to prove the crimes done by those in authority. Since when is that game ever fair?
Top 10 reasons why lineage-based reparations is a bad plan
By Michael Harriot, TheGrio — On Sept. 30, 2020, 401 years after traffickers landed in Virginia with enslaved Africans, California lawmakers passed Assembly Bill 3121.
reparationscomm.org
I extracted a couple of points made in the essay that might apply to the debate in Canada regarding reparations for harm done to Canada's First People.
Top 10 reasons why lineage-based reparations is a bad plan
7. It asks the victims of a criminal enterprise to solve a crime.
Imagine if someone managed to escape from a ring of kidnappers. The kidnappers, knowing they were guilty, began to free their victims. Half the people are free when the cops burst in, and half are still in chains. How would they determine who was a kidnap victim and who was a kidnapper?
I have no idea.
All I know is that the worst way to solve the crime would be to ask the people who weren’t in chains to solve the crime. Yet, that’s what the California task force proposes. And, when it comes to reparations, this is not just a hypothetical scenario. Although California was supposed to be a free state, as many as 1,500 Black people were illegally transported to Califonia between 1849 and 1861. I suspect it will be hard for native Californians who actually descended from enslaved people to find documentation of their ancestors’ theft.
I don’t want to sound like a bigot but, in my experience, thieves are usually terrible at record-keeping.
6. Reparations for African-Americans should not be limited to slavery.
The dollar value of the free labor stolen between 1776 and 1865 is just a fraction of what was stolen from Africans in America. In 1865, America was 89 years old and there were 4 million Black people enslaved in the U.S. Eighty-four years after emancipation, 15 million Black people were subject to Jim Crow, redlining, unequal wages and the theft of their tax dollars. As I wrote in 2020, the intergenerational transfer of Black wealth that came after slavery may be more than what was taken during slavery.
Think about the tax dollars collected that were used to build whites-only schools, public accommodations and institutions of higher learning to which Black people had no access. How about the devaluing of real estate as a result of redlining or the GI Bill that wasn’t available to Black veterans or banks that legally excluded Black customers but were federally insured with Black tax dollars. The New Deal—the largest social program in American history—built the middle class for white America with Black tax dollars. How about the wage inequality, credit disparities and employment opportunities that still persist? All of this didn’t just suddenly end in 1865.
All Black people are inheritors of the legacy of slavery.
I know the situation is different. But just saying, divvying up reparations according to how a person can prove they deserve it puts the responsibility on the victims to prove the crimes done by those in authority. Since when is that game ever fair?
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
In a way it is contrary to liberal democracy by giving someone preference based on linage and how would such a system be justly administered. I've seen a chief of a native band in Canada who was a dead ringer for the singer Kenny Rogers, except he had blond hair and a blond beard. The main problem with linage base reparations is that people fuck each other, literally and figuratively and we will all be mutts in the end. However, lords in Britian have large inherited estates going back centuries... They signed treaties, contracts if you will and even those who didn't should be treated as though they did, they have communal rights as opposed to individual land rights like an English squire. The point of the comparison is to illustrate it is doable in certain circumstances, our culture passes property rights down too.This thread is about Canadian stuff, so I'm not sure why the topic drifted into the topic of generational race based slavery in the US. Possibly it got there when reparations to Canada's First People was brought up? In any case, I thought I'd post this up to counter the the idea that reparations should be made to people who can "prove" they are entitled to them by "proving" their lineage:
Top 10 reasons why lineage-based reparations is a bad plan
By Michael Harriot, TheGrio — On Sept. 30, 2020, 401 years after traffickers landed in Virginia with enslaved Africans, California lawmakers passed Assembly Bill 3121.
I extracted a couple of points made in the essay that might apply to the debate in Canada regarding reparations for harm done to Canada's First People.
Top 10 reasons why lineage-based reparations is a bad plan
7. It asks the victims of a criminal enterprise to solve a crime.
Imagine if someone managed to escape from a ring of kidnappers. The kidnappers, knowing they were guilty, began to free their victims. Half the people are free when the cops burst in, and half are still in chains. How would they determine who was a kidnap victim and who was a kidnapper?
I have no idea.
All I know is that the worst way to solve the crime would be to ask the people who weren’t in chains to solve the crime. Yet, that’s what the California task force proposes. And, when it comes to reparations, this is not just a hypothetical scenario. Although California was supposed to be a free state, as many as 1,500 Black people were illegally transported to Califonia between 1849 and 1861. I suspect it will be hard for native Californians who actually descended from enslaved people to find documentation of their ancestors’ theft.
I don’t want to sound like a bigot but, in my experience, thieves are usually terrible at record-keeping.
6. Reparations for African-Americans should not be limited to slavery.
The dollar value of the free labor stolen between 1776 and 1865 is just a fraction of what was stolen from Africans in America. In 1865, America was 89 years old and there were 4 million Black people enslaved in the U.S. Eighty-four years after emancipation, 15 million Black people were subject to Jim Crow, redlining, unequal wages and the theft of their tax dollars. As I wrote in 2020, the intergenerational transfer of Black wealth that came after slavery may be more than what was taken during slavery.
Think about the tax dollars collected that were used to build whites-only schools, public accommodations and institutions of higher learning to which Black people had no access. How about the devaluing of real estate as a result of redlining or the GI Bill that wasn’t available to Black veterans or banks that legally excluded Black customers but were federally insured with Black tax dollars. The New Deal—the largest social program in American history—built the middle class for white America with Black tax dollars. How about the wage inequality, credit disparities and employment opportunities that still persist? All of this didn’t just suddenly end in 1865.
All Black people are inheritors of the legacy of slavery.
I know the situation is different. But just saying, divvying up reparations according to how a person can prove they deserve it puts the responsibility on the victims to prove the crimes done by those in authority. Since when is that game ever fair?
As for Slavery, Blacks were not recognized as persons or as partial persons until emancipation and then fell under the protection of the constitution. It is those post-civil war failures of the government that must be addressed and if it is done, it will be a legal process and legal arguments must be made.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I don't know enough about the history between the white Canadian nation and the First People to comment on what could or should happen w/regard to reparations. In the US, just focusing on economic harm to Black people, harm to Black people continued after 1865 and into today. I saw one study that specified damages at $150 million per Black person. I'm not sure even that amount would make whole the people harmed by US racism against the Black people of our nation. I'm pretty sure a cash payout of that amount will not happen I said it to provide scale to how much harm and how much benefit was gained by those doing harm. It's a very big dollar figure. How should that money be allocated? I very much liked what Kamala Harris said about reparations:
You can look at the issue of untreated and undiagnosed trauma. African-Americans have higher rates of heart disease and high blood pressure. It is environmental. It is centuries of slavery, which was a form of violence where women were raped, where children were taken from their parents - violence associated with slavery. And that never - there was never any real intervention to break up what had been generations of people experiencing the highest forms of trauma. And trauma, undiagnosed and untreated, leads to physiological outcomes.
unless there's intervention done, it will appear to be, perhaps, generational. But it's generational only because the environment has not experienced a significant enough change to reverse the symptoms. You need to put resources and direct resources - extra resources - into those communities that have experienced that trauma.
I think that the word, the term reparations, it means different things to different people. But what I mean by it is that we need to study the effects of generations of discrimination and institutional racism and determine what can be done, in terms of intervention, to correct course.
I'm not going to derail this thread and won't comment on this topic going forward. This is, after all a thread for Canada stuff. I posted my comment to provide insight into where the topic of reparations may be headed in the US.