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Jeffislovinlife
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StonedGardener
Well-Known Member
Elevation or not , it beats the f ought of getting up in the morning and grinding out
another f'ing day at f'ing work ! Crack on ! " Carpe f'ing Diem " ! Be safe and watch out for those f'ing " curve-balls " that f'ing nature is constantly throwing ! Nature can be such a whore ! I've always told my son and daughter , don't be surprised, if you get a " stick in the eye " regularly ! Always look for that elusive " silver lining " !
Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
Indeed. A rattlesnake hissed and rattled at me today. Most unexpected. I must have stepped real close for that response and Just as a dark thunder and lightning storm rolled in. She was
Right on the trail and damn I must have been close stepping on her. She was all coiled up . I could see her tongue and her her rattle, 2 steps past her looking back. That’s when I saw her. What should I do if get bitten? I carry a first aid kit but might need some more supplies.
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Jeffislovinlife
Well-Known Member
Using a compression bandage is the best way to do it and then call and get yourself to the doctors
StonedGardener
Well-Known Member
Lots of rattlers around here and a lot of rattle snake hunters ( not me , no f'ing way) ! I've walked into some snake dens over the when out hiking , surrounded by those mo-fo's . Ya don't know how fast you can really run until that shit happens , high stepping all the way ! What's that old show , " A Thousand Ways to Die " !
Antidote Man
Well-Known Member
I've written a book on the subject of rattlesnake/copperhead dens here in the northeast. I have been in the field many times and nearly stepped on rattlesnakes before. I'm actually visiting a den on Monday, will be watching my feet. I have snake gaiters but I've yet to use them. My professional opinion is that unless you step on one or try to handle it, you'll be fine. Some species out west are supposedly more aggressive - mojaves, western diamondbacks come to mind. I'm sure every once in a while one will strike at someone just walking by and at a close distance... and if that happens, no medical kit is going to do anything. Get yourself to a hospital as quick as possible for antivenom treatment and get ready for a bill of like 20,000$ The good part is that the odds are in your favor that you'll live..
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Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
Why is antivenom treatment so expensive?
I went back to the park today and did another trail in the approximately same location , just the other side of the the large mesa. I had my eyes and ears on alert. Saw one small snake slithering on the side trail embankment over some leaves. I spotted him from the sound and he was close and moving away, nothing like the massive coiled up one that looked like this trail warning sign they have posted at a rest stop 5 miles from the park. There is not one snake sign at the park. When entering the park today I told the ranger about the rattlesnake I saw yesterday and his face lit up like I was so lucky and he seemed surprised I saw one. What a crock of shit. I think they don’t want to scare tourists away with these signs at the park. I looked up snakes is Colorado. There are 3 types that live here and they are all venomous. I ride my bike around here. Should I be concerned about riding my bike over one and getting bitten? I seriously hope one of these jobs I applied for offers me a way out of this location. When I lived in Arizona I hiked extensive area and never saw a rattler . I saw a Gila monster but never a rattler! This place is worse!
I saw this type of snake yesterday, size about the same. She was coiled up like a cobra hissing and rattling . My ears are getting a tune to them moving on the leaves.I must have passed at least 10 and i have No idea what a den looks like.
Antidote Man
Well-Known Member
I cant answer why its expensive but I do know, unlike many medical vaccines and remedies, the price has remained the same for some time now. It's about 500$ a vial and most adults bitten by the crotalus species require between 20 - 40 vials. I had a cat that got bit by a very large northern copperhead and he only required 2 vials. Also, if you require air lift via helicopter - tack another 10k on that total.
I looked up your species there and most of those are mild mannered and not as venomous as other species. The mississauga, which is also found in western new york, often causes necrotic tissue damage, meaning you could loose a digit if bit. The prairie rattlesnake s the most aggressive and venomous, although not as venomous as the diamondback, mojave and even the northern timber rattlesnakes from where I live. I think you were lucky, like the guide said, even if they are living all around that area, it's rare to come across one. Those species usually don't den up, that's more of a trait for northern species. I do know of one copperhead den in Gould ford Kansas, and a rattlesnake den in Oklahoma, historical places, don't know the activity there now. I know of some dens in Washington state and Idaho. Like the many dens here in New York - Here in the northeast in many states the DEC has discovered many of the dens and watches them. I've contributed a bit to this in NY. In Colorado I would say dens are very rare, in the north they find southern facing ledges to group up together underground to survive the winter. In the south/west they kind of nest everywhere. That's why you see these youtube videos of people crawling under foundations and pulling out dozens of rattlesnakes. They aren't really natural dens and that's why at an open park you were lucky to see one. Too much natural habitat to find cover, hunt for rodents, and keep away from paths/people.
As for biking and getting bit, unlikely. You might even kill the snake before he has a chance to strike, and none of those snakes are large enough (like the eastern diamondback) to really get you if you cruise over it. Gilas are very, very rare to see... lucky to see one for certain. I lived in San Diego about a decade ago and spent a lot of time off-roading with my jeep and looking for snakes. I heard a rattler one time but never saw one. That should say something.. hope that helped!
I looked up your species there and most of those are mild mannered and not as venomous as other species. The mississauga, which is also found in western new york, often causes necrotic tissue damage, meaning you could loose a digit if bit. The prairie rattlesnake s the most aggressive and venomous, although not as venomous as the diamondback, mojave and even the northern timber rattlesnakes from where I live. I think you were lucky, like the guide said, even if they are living all around that area, it's rare to come across one. Those species usually don't den up, that's more of a trait for northern species. I do know of one copperhead den in Gould ford Kansas, and a rattlesnake den in Oklahoma, historical places, don't know the activity there now. I know of some dens in Washington state and Idaho. Like the many dens here in New York - Here in the northeast in many states the DEC has discovered many of the dens and watches them. I've contributed a bit to this in NY. In Colorado I would say dens are very rare, in the north they find southern facing ledges to group up together underground to survive the winter. In the south/west they kind of nest everywhere. That's why you see these youtube videos of people crawling under foundations and pulling out dozens of rattlesnakes. They aren't really natural dens and that's why at an open park you were lucky to see one. Too much natural habitat to find cover, hunt for rodents, and keep away from paths/people.
As for biking and getting bit, unlikely. You might even kill the snake before he has a chance to strike, and none of those snakes are large enough (like the eastern diamondback) to really get you if you cruise over it. Gilas are very, very rare to see... lucky to see one for certain. I lived in San Diego about a decade ago and spent a lot of time off-roading with my jeep and looking for snakes. I heard a rattler one time but never saw one. That should say something.. hope that helped!
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How antivenom is made and why it's so darn expensive
Some 100,000 people die each year from venomous snakes bites. Most die because there's not enough antivenom.
www.zmescience.com
Antidote Man
Well-Known Member
Saw 21 rattlesnakes today, 1 copperhead, 1 rat snake, 1 black racer. No bites, I picked some of them up with tongs, none of them even struck at me! And it warm enough for them to be active... My advice? Don't worry so much about venomous snakes...
Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
Your incredible. I will try to be braver. Thank you for your inspiration. What you do is breathtaking. You’re really something else.
Thank you for help. I will find out tomorrow if we have the serum at the hospital when I call the pharmacist to compound the CCK I will need.How antivenom is made and why it's so darn expensive
Some 100,000 people die each year from venomous snakes bites. Most die because there's not enough antivenom.
Antidote Man
Well-Known Member
Thank you - It's really not crazy ..once you get use to their behaviors and how they work in their surroundings its just a walk in the park. They never advance and strike like some cobras and other elapids do.
From what I'm reading 5 people die in America of snakebites each year, out of a few thousand that are bit by venomous species. That's the online consensus but I think there are another handful that die, mainly including people that keep 'hot' (venomous) snakes. I think its a long shot you would be bit, but go for it!
In India and Africa where technology is slowly catching up, along with better treatment, it was said 100,000 people die each year which I think is a ridiculously high number. Once all these countries are 'Americanized', bites will number in the tens of thousands and fatalities a fraction of that..
From what I'm reading 5 people die in America of snakebites each year, out of a few thousand that are bit by venomous species. That's the online consensus but I think there are another handful that die, mainly including people that keep 'hot' (venomous) snakes. I think its a long shot you would be bit, but go for it!
In India and Africa where technology is slowly catching up, along with better treatment, it was said 100,000 people die each year which I think is a ridiculously high number. Once all these countries are 'Americanized', bites will number in the tens of thousands and fatalities a fraction of that..
Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
Indeed. I am sure I will be fine keeping my eyes on the ground. I’m not so frightened anymore. We do have the anti venom serum at the hospital. Next week I will call my health insurance company to get the cost it might inflict. I have had a couple conversations with colleagues at work regarding this topic. When I tell them if I get bit I wouldn’t take the serum they seem deflated and seem to sum me up as perhaps suicidal or ridiculous. The fucking nerve. Like I have $20 grand to throw around for some snake oil!
Antidote Man
Well-Known Member
No. Trust me, you take it an pay the cost, there is a chance you could die without it. That's just how it is...
The real danger, and I think the majority of people that die, are collectors/keepers of 'hot' snakes from far away lands that don't come with the serum and the local hospitals cant get it. I hear sometimes they fly it in from hospitals in some other state, but by that point some of these species produce heart attacks, breathing issues, paralysis, etc.
A good guy to look up on the topic of self injecting and immunity is Tim Fried. He can take back to back bites from a taipan and a black mamba - both of which cause death in 15 minutes without antivenom and he takes nothing afterward.
Are you working a job out in the desert/scrub brush?
The real danger, and I think the majority of people that die, are collectors/keepers of 'hot' snakes from far away lands that don't come with the serum and the local hospitals cant get it. I hear sometimes they fly it in from hospitals in some other state, but by that point some of these species produce heart attacks, breathing issues, paralysis, etc.
A good guy to look up on the topic of self injecting and immunity is Tim Fried. He can take back to back bites from a taipan and a black mamba - both of which cause death in 15 minutes without antivenom and he takes nothing afterward.
Are you working a job out in the desert/scrub brush?
Poison Control usually knows where it's located and we do indeed fly it in using both fixed wing and helicopter.
Deaths from venom are painful and ugly and so is recovery. Antivenom gives you a good chance but yeah sometimes the dice comes up snake eyes.
Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
No I don’t work out in the desert scrub brush. I just spend a lot of time on trails.
SFnone
Well-Known Member
Not to discredit anyone, but rattlesnakes are not to be taken lightly at all. Humans can avoid them fairly easily, but if you have dogs, be very careful. I grew up a little south of you, DAT, and my one dog was bitten by a big rattlesnake... she didn't even see it before it struck, no warning or anything, and let me say, it was a horrible death for her. You don't have to be afraid of them, but don't think they are nothing to worry about, or it can end bad... especially for 4 legged friends... even if they survive, it's bad... really bad. Another thing, bullsnakes are all over in the SW too, and they make a similar sound... easy way to tell the difference fast, is the eyes... they just have black, friendly looking circles, whereas the rattlers have the pissed off slits... honestly the whole shape and coloration is different, but if you don't know what you are looking at, the eyes don't lie.
Antidote Man
Well-Known Member
Yes, dogs and children. Most adults know not to mess with them. If you dont mess with them your chances are slim...
Dr.Amber Trichome
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about your dog . That’s heartbreaking.