Examples of GOP Leadership

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I say give it back to them, and let them do what the fuck ever they want with it, i could give a shit less.
Their religion is still just as fucking meaningless to me as every other religion on the earth, and i refuse to validate it in any way, the same as all the others. Religion is a personal philosophy, and should have no bearing on anything except your own, private life.
You miss the point again. The identity of the Sioux and other Plains tribe people was assaulted by the US when we defaced those beautiful granite mountains. The US has been both culturally appropriating and erasing native American culture for our entire history. What they call sacred is not like Christianity. They mean a link to who they are. A link between the past and the present of first people. It's about history, lineage, culture, heritage that the white man has attempted to erase. All I'm saying is that we did great harm to those people in many ways and its about time we recognize that and not just sweep it under the carpet. I don't understand why you get your dander up about this.

Because you just blew your top without trying to understand what the Sioux were saying, I did it for you:


The battle for Mount Rushmore: ‘It should be turned into something like the Holocaust Museum’


Mount Rushmore national memorial draws nearly 3 million visitors a year to its remote location in South Dakota. They travel from all corners of the globe just to lay their eyes on what the National Park Service calls America’s “shrine of democracy”.

Phil Two Eagle is not opposed to the fact that the giant sculpture of American presidents is a major tourist attraction but he thinks the park should have a different focus: oppression.

“It should be turned into something like the United States Holocaust Museum,” he said. “The world needs to know what was done to us.”

Two Eagle noted what historians have also documented. Hitler got some of his genocidal ideas for ethnic cleansing from 19th and early 20th century US policies against Native Americans.

Mount Rushmore national memorial draws nearly 3 million visitors a year to its remote location in South Dakota. They travel from all corners of the globe just to lay their eyes on what the National Park Service calls America’s “shrine of democracy”.

Phil Two Eagle is not opposed to the fact that the giant sculpture of American presidents is a major tourist attraction but he thinks the park should have a different focus: oppression.

“It should be turned into something like the United States Holocaust Museum,” he said. “The world needs to know what was done to us.”

Two Eagle noted what historians have also documented. Hitler got some of his genocidal ideas for ethnic cleansing from 19th and early 20th century US policies against Native Americans.


He's not wrong. Those carvings on the face of Mt Rushmore is part of an American holocaust. That's a story that deserves to be told and remembered. But you aren't wrong either. The tribes who own that land want it returned. Not a payment but to have the land returned to them.
 
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cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Repugs: politicians who say they love America while hating the people who comprise it.

I hope the other legislators draw a hard line against this misocratic nonsense.

 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
You miss the point again. The identity of the Sioux and other Plains tribe people was assaulted by the US when we defaced those beautiful granite mountains. The US has been both culturally appropriating and erasing native American culture for our entire history. What they call sacred is not like Christianity. They mean a link to who they are. A link between the past and the present of first people. It's about history, lineage, culture, heritage that the white man has attempted to erase. All I'm saying is that we did great harm to those people in many ways and its about time we recognize that and not just sweep it under the carpet. I don't understand why you get your dander up about this.

Because you just blew your top without trying to understand what the Sioux were saying, I did it for you:


The battle for Mount Rushmore: ‘It should be turned into something like the Holocaust Museum’


Mount Rushmore national memorial draws nearly 3 million visitors a year to its remote location in South Dakota. They travel from all corners of the globe just to lay their eyes on what the National Park Service calls America’s “shrine of democracy”.

Phil Two Eagle is not opposed to the fact that the giant sculpture of American presidents is a major tourist attraction but he thinks the park should have a different focus: oppression.

“It should be turned into something like the United States Holocaust Museum,” he said. “The world needs to know what was done to us.”

Two Eagle noted what historians have also documented. Hitler got some of his genocidal ideas for ethnic cleansing from 19th and early 20th century US policies against Native Americans.

Mount Rushmore national memorial draws nearly 3 million visitors a year to its remote location in South Dakota. They travel from all corners of the globe just to lay their eyes on what the National Park Service calls America’s “shrine of democracy”.

Phil Two Eagle is not opposed to the fact that the giant sculpture of American presidents is a major tourist attraction but he thinks the park should have a different focus: oppression.

“It should be turned into something like the United States Holocaust Museum,” he said. “The world needs to know what was done to us.”

Two Eagle noted what historians have also documented. Hitler got some of his genocidal ideas for ethnic cleansing from 19th and early 20th century US policies against Native Americans.


He's not wrong. Those carvings on the face of Mt Rushmore is part of an American holocaust. That's a story that deserves to be told and remembered. But you aren't wrong either. The tribes who own that land want it returned. Not a payment but to have the land returned to them.
I'm not missing your point, i never have...I don't agree with you, and you aren't going to make me agree with you.
They have a right to believe whatever they want, they have been treated like shit, and deserve for all of that to be made right.
What they consider sacred though, is their personal beliefs, and not mine, or anyone's who doesn't believe their myths. I do not care about their myths, or ANYONE else's, and REFUSE to consider them valid points in any kind of real world situation. When Gitchie Manitou makes a public appearance, i may change my mind, you have no chance at all.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I'm not missing your point, i never have...I don't agree with you, and you aren't going to make me agree with you.
They have a right to believe whatever they want, they have been treated like shit, and deserve for all of that to be made right.
What they consider sacred though, is their personal beliefs, and not mine, or anyone's who doesn't believe their myths. I do not care about their myths, or ANYONE else's, and REFUSE to consider them valid points in any kind of real world situation. When Gitchie Manitou makes a public appearance, i may change my mind, you have no chance at all.
no, you don't get it. But I agree you won't.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
tubo is a southern white nationalist racist bigot...and wants exactly what all the rest of them want, to control every aspect of everyone else's life, so they don't feel threatened. That's what all cowardly, small people want, that's who elected him, and he's serving them well.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I'm not missing your point, i never have...I don't agree with you, and you aren't going to make me agree with you.
They have a right to believe whatever they want, they have been treated like shit, and deserve for all of that to be made right.
What they consider sacred though, is their personal beliefs, and not mine, or anyone's who doesn't believe their myths. I do not care about their myths, or ANYONE else's, and REFUSE to consider them valid points in any kind of real world situation. When Gitchie Manitou makes a public appearance, i may change my mind, you have no chance at all.
I think it is important to consider that the Western concepts of sacred and holy connote a setting-apart, a division between the sacred and profane. The phrase inner sanctum illustrates this: a place where special rules and behaviors apply, perhaps in order to unmask or propitiate the divine. A place apart.

Animists do not think that way. Their view is more holistic. Every square foot of land, every breath is sacred as part of the inseparable mesh of matter and spirit that make up all experience.

So it is imo a mistake to impose the (often not consciously recognized) Western-analytical view of sanctity upon the worldview of Native Americans. They have no division of the sacred and the profane. The sacred in their minds is a bit more like the Tao: “the right way of things” that pervades all.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
I think it is important to consider that the Western concepts of sacred and holy connote a setting-apart, a division between the sacred and profane. The phrase inner sanctum illustrates this: a place where special rules and behaviors apply, perhaps in order to unmask or propitiate the divine. A place apart.

Animists do not think that way. Their view is more holistic. Every square foot of land, every breath is sacred as part of the inseparable mesh of matter and spirit that make up all experience.

So it is imo a mistake to impose the (often not consciously recognized) Western-analytical view of sanctity upon the worldview of Native Americans. They have no division of the sacred and the profane. The sacred in their minds is a bit more like the Tao: “the right way of things” that pervades all.
I like fog, i respect his opinions on almost everything, but we're just going to have to disagree on this. I understand that they were the original owners of this continent, and that we have treated them like shit our entire relationship. I also understand that they have a right to believe whatever they want to believe, but i do not have to believe the same things, and do not have to consider them valid arguments for anything except philosophical debate.
He doesn't respect my view, so we're just not ever going to see the same way on this.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I like fog, i respect his opinions on almost everything, but we're just going to have to disagree on this. I understand that they were the original owners of this continent, and that we have treated them like shit our entire relationship. I also understand that they have a right to believe whatever they want to believe, but i do not have to believe the same things, and do not have to consider them valid arguments for anything except philosophical debate.
He doesn't respect my view, so we're just not ever going to see the same way on this.
There is a mile-wide gap between not believing the same things, and imposing that disbelief to negate the validity of the other’s beliefs. I’m ok with the first, but the second is a bigoted stance imo. I could be wrong, but I think Fog is reacting to the second. I think he is on firm ground if so.
“anyway, it’s just a thought”
 
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