F2 Pheno Hunt Advice

[HenryTheEighth]

5150 has many other meanings from being a van halen album to emergency 72-hour hold for mental illness and much more, I doubt it refers to which plant they used, also never trust a breeders number, some inflate their numbers by starting counting at higher numbers, for example, starting at 300 and each plant after being 301, 302, etc instead of just saying 1, 2, 3.. this (the last I read) was being done to make people believe they went through far more plants to make their selection to make it seem like more work was done in the line..

on average I hear breeders say unicorns are found in about 100 seeds or 10, 10-packs with usually at least a decent keeper found in a pack

Cool, I had no idea that 5150 could also be a pop culture or other cultural reference.

It could be their way of calling it the van halen cut or mental illness cut that is a stoner thing to do.

Yes you are right breeders would do hundred batch’s and a ‘3 series’ would be the 300’s.

And that plays into your last point that the unicorns are generally the 1% so a starting point would be to look at 100 seeds to see if you get 1 or more killer plants.

I now think I remember reading TomHill say his Haze was a 5%er. I’m fairly sure he said you needed to run at least 100 to find the metal shop on the stem rub smelling ones.

 

[ALPHA.GanjaGuy]

Cool, I had no idea that 5150 could also be a pop culture or other cultural reference.

It could be their way of calling it the van halen cut or mental illness cut that is a stoner thing to do.

Yes you are right breeders would do hundred batch’s and a ‘3 series’ would be the 300’s.

And that plays into your last point that the unicorns are generally the 1% so a starting point would be to look at 100 seeds to see if you get 1 or more killer plants.

first part Im too high to tell if you are being a smartass or not so.. lol

you misunderstood me though. I know how to count and label plants lol. I am saying I am aware of breeders making up the number they start with. for example they could have only 10 in their "hunt" but they start numbering them at a random number like 47-57 or 300-310, they didn't hunt through 57 or 310 plants, but people who look for those numbers and know that an honest breeder is telling you which plant it was out of their hunt, assume that all breeders are being honest with their numbers.. so most times when I see high numbers I am skeptical..

berner said it best, lmao; "We ran 15 seeds on this pheno-hunt... #20 was just POPPIN! "

 

[conor c]

Cool, I had no idea that 5150 could also be a pop culture or other cultural reference.

It could be their way of calling it the van halen cut or mental illness cut that is a stoner thing to do.

Yes you are right breeders would do hundred batch’s and a ‘3 series’ would be the 300’s.

And that plays into your last point that the unicorns are generally the 1% so a starting point would be to look at 100 seeds to see if you get 1 or more killer plants.

I now think I remember reading TomHill say his Haze was a 5%er. I’m fairly sure he said you needed to run at least 100 to find the metal shop on the stem rub smelling ones.

All i know is it used to be 25 seeds in pure original haze they said it would take to find a keeper well with time going on and further inbreeding n that id say its probably 1 in 50 now at least to find a regular keeper as for unicorn level who knows 250 + maybe more

 

[HenryTheEighth]

first part Im too high to tell if you are being a smartass or not so.. lol

you misunderstood me though. I know how to count and label plants lol. I am saying I am aware of breeders making up the number they start with. for example they could have only 10 in their "hunt" but they start numbering them at a random number like 47-57 or 300-310, they didn't hunt through 57 or 310 plants, but people who look for those numbers and know that an honest breeder is telling you which plant it was out of their hunt, assume that all breeders are being honest with their numbers.. so most times when I see high numbers I am skeptical..

berner said it best, lmao; "We ran 15 seeds on this pheno-hunt... #20 was just POPPIN! "

Pmsl. I wasn’t trying to be a smart arse but I was high when I wrote my reply so you know how these things go!
Well, if so called breeders do short seed runs within a big number sequence to confuse the fuck out of things then they are more high than both of us.
Gee-wizz I know math is hard when you are baked but it never made me do fucked up numbing systems for plants. Lol
#20 indeed!!

 

[Cannaclysmic Events]

As far as advice goes:
I would say you are not on an f2 pheno hunt.
You are poly hybrid pheno hunting.
It’s all the same game anyway.
If you are running poly’s or f-gen or Bx1,2,3 or landrace it’s ALL about the 10% rule.

The best plants are in the 10% no matter what you run.
You sound like you are already killing it if you run up to five packs to find the few amazing plants.

I hunted 5 packs, 60+ plants.

 

[Cannaclysmic Events]

I just try to snag packs that were expensive but are marked down substantially because they have a little age on them. I think those Chron Don packs were $150 when released, same with the UFO packs. I figure the genetics didn't change, just the market's fleeting desires cause new is always better. So I spent $100 to hunt packs that
have genetics qualitatively worth $450, or at least they did when new.

 

[Qube]

Indeed sir. You know these breeders selling five packs of regs have me ready to call bullshit on that practice because as you say a pack should hold the promise of ‘one keeper’.

I have yet to see any breeders say how many packs you need to find the unicorns. They just want people to think they will get one in a five pack or ten pack.

I mean CSI has an S1 Triangle kush cut they call 5150. So was that plant number 5150? So over 5000 got run to find a better version of the parent?? That’s hardcore if that’s the case.

Caleb just talked about this on the Potcast episode 88.5 at around the 33-34 minute mark. It's actually plant #50 from a 100 plant run. He found 2 TK dominant plants, #50 and #51. He decided on the #50 as the keeper but stuck to calling it 5150 as those where the 2 plants that looked most like the TK.

 

[Cannaclysmic Events]

I just try to snag packs that were expensive but are marked down substantially because they have a little age on them. I think those Chron Don packs were $150 when released, same with the UFO packs. I figure the genetics didn't change, just the market's fleeting desires cause new is always better. So I spent $100 to hunt packs that
have genetics qualitatively worth $450, or at least they did when new.

That's supposed to be a 7. Typing is hard to apparently

 

[Cannaclysmic Events]

I read about all these mega number pheno hunts to find one worth it all, and it makes sense I suppose, genetic lottery and all. How does it explain the one off happy accidents and bag seed winners? That accounts for a good number of cuts people revere, right? There seems to be too many of those to just be outliers of phenomenal luck.

 

[Blutri]

Would you go to the pound and pick out a dog to use as a basis of a breeding program?
Most will say hell no.
Then why would you purchase a plant composed of 4 different parental lines?¿
Wouldn’t that plant be the equivalent of mutt dog?¿. Hold that thought.
lets see a show of hands from those who thinks that you can create an awesome line of dogs just by breeding 2 mutt puppies together.
In one breeding I might add…
for real, do anyone think that that they can pull that off?¿.
To everyone who say “no, it can’t be done”, then why do you make post claiming such awesome plant genetics when in fact you have the plant equivalent of a mutt dog.
What happens when 2 of those mutt pups grow up and have a litter together?¿ ever pull up to a house that has 15 or more scraggly dogs running around the yard? Of course you have.
I chuckle every time I see posts where someone talks about how many different phenotypes that their line of plants produces.
Grow up, because I’m not talking about the slight differences in taste and smell. I’m talking about complete structural differences in size, height, bud production.grow time. Hell even the high from plant to plant is so different, that you can barely tell that those plants where produces from the same seed pack.
You say genetic diversity, however I say mutt. But call it what you like because it’s your hard earned $$$. So spend it how you want to.
Consider this, those mutt plants take the same resources and effort to grow as better breed ones. That’s what I tell my buddies who choose to raise $50 dogs. For real, why do that when those $50 dogs eat the same dog food and take the same amount of time and effort to raise as higher end dog.
Ever try selling a mutt?¿ My email is filled with half off, or buy one get one free bean. Labor Day sale? Every day must be Labor Day then. It’s all good though.
How many of you are growing $35 bean packs?¿.
How many of you think there is no difference in plants produced from $35 beans and plants produced from $3,500 beans.
That’s because most of you have never seen such a plant. Therefore you think that all the plants are the same.
That’s the reasoning behind those 1 of 100, 1 of 1,000 pheno hunts for that unicorn.
I guarantee that you want see a mutt produce an akc champion. Nor a unicorn?¿ Pound bound… did I say that out loud?¿
Searching $35 seed packs for a keeper is the equivalent of going to the pound for breeding stock of dogs. So why keep doing that grow after grow. Oh yeah those beans are cheap. What’s not cheap is the resources that it takes to complete a grow. So do that several times only to end up in a worse breeding situation than where you started because someone told you that’s a gelato, oreoz, or gg4 cross. Then why aren’t they growing it. Better yet, why aren’t they growing it any more.
For real, even if you did find something nice deep within the pile of cross breeds, it will take you even longer than it took to get luck, to get lucky again and produce something that just as nice as the original find.
That’s something we all know. Well those who do actual breedings know. But for some reason, those who are buying experimental seed packs, can’t figure this concept out and understand that breeding doesn’t work like that.
Do enough breedings and you don’t have to wonder why they produce bx1. I see some go all the way up to bx 3. It’s done to make that find better. So how great could it have been id breeder is still adding other crosses to it. F1 with a 1,000 phenos. And very few of them worth growing.
I take that back, because they grow awesomely, however the don’t smoke worth a flip. Still searching, still crossing, and back crossing and s1’ing. For that ever elusive unicorn. That marketing game better be on fleet. Oops.
It takes hard work and dedication to create great strains. It also takes a lot planning and as well as plant knowledge. Which should include more than where a plant comes from or at what altitude it grows at.
For instance, a plant growing high up in the kush mountains would have a very short growing season, thus making said plants very small, as well as very fast so that it complete its life cycle before harsh weather moves in. Said plant would also be purple due to reduced metabolism caused by the colder temperatures. I’m will to guarantee that it wouldn’t look dank…
Try this one. What happened when you light deprive an equatorial strain?¿ Don’t know? Try it and see.
Wanna know if you are smoking a pure sativa? Are you waiting 45 minutes for you high to kick in. Of course not, because most people aren’t willing to wait that long to feel the effects of the bud. As stated by DJ Short said in the now infamous pot cast where he also said that blueberry was originally an auto flower.
He also made another very important comment in that same pot cast that makes it very worth checking out. It’s good reference material for anyone who plans to be serious about breeding cannabis.
How can one be out chasing unicorns when they don’t even know what one looks like, or where it lives, or what it eats. It makes no sense or me,
However, if you say it’s an unicorn, who am I not to believe you. Especially since you say that they are all over the place. Must be a new type of non magical unicorn that everyone is raging about. You know, the boring 15 min to 2 hr one dimensional buzz where more time is spent smoking than enjoying the fruits of one’s labor. Good night. Or should I say good morning.

 

[conor c]

Would you go to the pound and pick out a dog to use as a basis of a breeding program?
Most will say hell no.
Then why would you purchase a plant composed of 4 different parents?¿
Wouldn’t that plant be the equivalent of mutt dog?¿. Hold that thought.
lets see a show of hands from those who thinks that you can create an awesome line of dogs just by breeding 2 mutt puppies together.
In one breeding I might add…
for real, do anyone think that that they can pull that off?¿.
To everyone who say “no, it can’t be done”, then why do you make post claiming such awesome plant genetics when in fact you have the plant equivalent of a mutt dog.
What happens when 2 of those mutt pups grow up and have a litter together?¿ ever pull up to a house that has 15 or more scraggly dogs running around the yard? Of course you have.
I chuckle every time I see posts where someone talks about how many different phenotypes that their line of plants produces.
Grow up, because I’m not talking about the slight differences in taste in smell. I’m talking about complete structural differences in size, height, bud production.grow time. Hell even the high from plant to plant is so different, that you can barely tell that those plants where produces from the same seed pack.
You say genetic diversity, however I say mutt. But call it what you like because it’s your hard earned $$$. So spend it how you want to.
Consider this, those mutt plants take the same resources and effort to grow as better breed ones. That’s what I tell my buddies who choose to raise $50 dogs. For real, why do that when those $50 dogs eat the same dog food and take the same amount of time and effort to raise as higher end dog.
Ever try selling a mutt?¿ My email is filled with half off, or buy one get one free,
How many of you are growing $35 bean packs?¿.
How many of you think there is no difference in plants produced from $35 beans and plants produced from $3,500 beans.
That’s because most of you have never seen such a plant. Therefore you think that all the plants are the same.
That’s the reasoning behind those 1 of 100, 1 of 1,000 pheno hunts for that unicorn.
Ever see a Yard filled with scraggly dogs. What’s even rarer is the mutt that produce a unicorn?¿ Pound bound… did I say that out loud?¿
Searching $35 seed packs for a keeper is the equivalent of going to the pound for breeding stock of dogs. So why keep doing that.
It takes hard work and dedication to create great strains. It also takes a lot planning and as well as plant knowledge. Which should include more than where a plant comes from or at what altitude it grows at.
For instance, a plant growing high up in the kush mountains would have a very short growing season, thus making said plants very small, as well as very fast so that it complete its life cycle before harsh weather moves in. Said plant would also be purple due to reduced metabolism caused by the colder temperatures. I’m will to guarantee that it wouldn’t look dank…
Try this one. What happened when you light deprive an equatorial strain?¿ Don’t know? Try it and see.
Wanna know if you are smoking a pure sativa? Are you waiting 45 minutes for you high to kick in. Of course not, because most people aren’t willing to wait that long to feel the effects of the bud. As stated by DJ Short said in the now infamous pot cast where he also said that blueberry was originally an auto flower.
He also made another very important comment in that same pot cast that makes it very worth checking out. It’s good reference material for anyone who plans to be serious about breeding cannabis.
How can one be out chasing unicorns when they don’t even know what one looks like, or where it lives, or what it eats. It makes no sense or me,
However, if you say it’s an unicorn, who am I not to believe you. Especially since you say that they are all over the place. Must be a new type of non magical unicorn that everyone is raging about. You know, the boring 15 min to 2 hr one dimensional buzz where more time is spent smoking than enjoying the fruits of one’s labor. Good night. Or should I say good morning.

I reckon semi auto tho with the first blueberry/thekind cos he also said folk kept cuts of it and thats not worth doing with proper day neutral plants plus i find alot of the older crowd fail to make the distinction between semis and proper autos and just lump em together as one category which they aint cos semi autos are just really photosensitive plants more so you can keep cuts of em providing you give em enough root space and keep your lights on 20 and 4 that should prevent most of them blooming but drop a hour or two or let em get rootbound and they will bloom regardless mind you even some normal photoperiod strains do this too the sweet pink grapefruit for example does this there are others too that bloom if outta root space also i get what you mean with the dogs reference however there are plenty of pure sativas that hit quicker than 45 minutes you ever tried malawi or south indian or any good thai or laotian lines they all hit pretty quick even in pure form in my experience i guess onset depends on alot of things obviously the person and if theres any thcv content and other stuff present

 

[Blutri]

I reckon semi auto tho with the first blueberry/thekind cos he also said folk kept cuts of it and thats not worth doing with proper day neutral plants plus i find alot of the older crowd fail to make the distinction between semis and proper autos and just lump em together as one category which they aint cos semi autos are just really photosensitive plants more so you can keep cuts of em providing you give em enough root space and keep your lights on 20 and 4 that should prevent most of them blooming but drop a hour or two or let em get rootbound and they will bloom regardless mind you even some normal photoperiod strains do this too the sweet pink grapefruit for example does this there are others too that bloom if outta root space also i get what you mean with the dogs reference however there are plenty of pure sativas that hit quicker than 45 minutes you ever tried malawi or south indian or any good thai or laotian lines they all hit pretty quick even in pure form in my experience i guess onset depends on alot of things obviously the person and if theres any thcv content and other stuff present

.
I remember this guy gave me one of those pure sativas with the fat indica type leaves. That 20 week, slow growing, slow rooting plant became just as fast as the auto that I crossed it with in a single breeding. Pure my but.
You can manipulate a phenotype to look however you want it to, however it still doesn’t make it pure.
Anyway brother, I didn’t make this post to argue autos, versus photos, or the power of any given sativa plant. I thought we were talking about pheno hunting…f2’s

 

[Blutri]

@conor c
Brother just like you, and many others, i have come across plants that hermie without a change in the light scheduling.
That is what happens when those hermie prone plants are breed to an auto flower. It starts to flowering all over the place. Root bound? Rodelization?, I think it more like automation. As you said, producing flowers without a change in the light scheduling is an un deniable auto flowering trait.
crossing to autos have been done for so long that now many think that it’s the norm.
Maybe some have forgotten about all those “early” strains since now most strains are just as fast.
It just business brother. While other’s plants are sitting in fields waiting for the weather to destroy it, commercial growers chose to crosse to the auto so they can harvest “early” so that they can bring more product to market.
But it’s not only to produce more useable product, but also be the first to do so.
It just makes good business sense.

 

[HenryTheEighth]

Would you go to the pound and pick out a dog to use as a basis of a breeding program?
Most will say hell no.
Then why would you purchase a plant composed of 4 different parental lines?¿
Wouldn’t that plant be the equivalent of mutt dog?¿. Hold that thought.
lets see a show of hands from those who thinks that you can create an awesome line of dogs just by breeding 2 mutt puppies together.
In one breeding I might add…
for real, do anyone think that that they can pull that off?¿.
To everyone who say “no, it can’t be done”, then why do you make post claiming such awesome plant genetics when in fact you have the plant equivalent of a mutt dog.
What happens when 2 of those mutt pups grow up and have a litter together?¿ ever pull up to a house that has 15 or more scraggly dogs running around the yard? Of course you have.
I chuckle every time I see posts where someone talks about how many different phenotypes that their line of plants produces.
Grow up, because I’m not talking about the slight differences in taste and smell. I’m talking about complete structural differences in size, height, bud production.grow time. Hell even the high from plant to plant is so different, that you can barely tell that those plants where produces from the same seed pack.
You say genetic diversity, however I say mutt. But call it what you like because it’s your hard earned $$$. So spend it how you want to.
Consider this, those mutt plants take the same resources and effort to grow as better breed ones. That’s what I tell my buddies who choose to raise $50 dogs. For real, why do that when those $50 dogs eat the same dog food and take the same amount of time and effort to raise as higher end dog.
Ever try selling a mutt?¿ My email is filled with half off, or buy one get one free bean. Labor Day sale? Every day must be Labor Day then. It’s all good though.
How many of you are growing $35 bean packs?¿.
How many of you think there is no difference in plants produced from $35 beans and plants produced from $3,500 beans.
That’s because most of you have never seen such a plant. Therefore you think that all the plants are the same.
That’s the reasoning behind those 1 of 100, 1 of 1,000 pheno hunts for that unicorn.
I guarantee that you want see a mutt produce an akc champion. Nor a unicorn?¿ Pound bound… did I say that out loud?¿
Searching $35 seed packs for a keeper is the equivalent of going to the pound for breeding stock of dogs. So why keep doing that grow after grow. Oh yeah those beans are cheap. What’s not cheap is the resources that it takes to complete a grow. So do that several times only to end up in a worse breeding situation than where you started because someone told you that’s a gelato, oreoz, or gg4 cross. Then why aren’t they growing it. Better yet, why aren’t they growing it any more.
For real, even if you did find something nice deep within the pile of cross breeds, it will take you even longer than it took to get luck, to get lucky again and produce something that just as nice as the original find.
That’s something we all know. Well those who do actual breedings know. But for some reason, those who are buying experimental seed packs, can’t figure this concept out and understand that breeding doesn’t work like that.
Do enough breedings and you don’t have to wonder why they produce bx1. I see some go all the way up to bx 3. It’s done to make that find better. So how great could it have been id breeder is still adding other crosses to it. F1 with a 1,000 phenos. And very few of them worth growing.
I take that back, because they grow awesomely, however the don’t smoke worth a flip. Still searching, still crossing, and back crossing and s1’ing. For that ever elusive unicorn. That marketing game better be on fleet. Oops.
It takes hard work and dedication to create great strains. It also takes a lot planning and as well as plant knowledge. Which should include more than where a plant comes from or at what altitude it grows at.
For instance, a plant growing high up in the kush mountains would have a very short growing season, thus making said plants very small, as well as very fast so that it complete its life cycle before harsh weather moves in. Said plant would also be purple due to reduced metabolism caused by the colder temperatures. I’m will to guarantee that it wouldn’t look dank…
Try this one. What happened when you light deprive an equatorial strain?¿ Don’t know? Try it and see.
Wanna know if you are smoking a pure sativa? Are you waiting 45 minutes for you high to kick in. Of course not, because most people aren’t willing to wait that long to feel the effects of the bud. As stated by DJ Short said in the now infamous pot cast where he also said that blueberry was originally an auto flower.
He also made another very important comment in that same pot cast that makes it very worth checking out. It’s good reference material for anyone who plans to be serious about breeding cannabis.
How can one be out chasing unicorns when they don’t even know what one looks like, or where it lives, or what it eats. It makes no sense or me,
However, if you say it’s an unicorn, who am I not to believe you. Especially since you say that they are all over the place. Must be a new type of non magical unicorn that everyone is raging about. You know, the boring 15 min to 2 hr one dimensional buzz where more time is spent smoking than enjoying the fruits of one’s labor. Good night. Or should I say good morning.

Firstly, not trying to pick a fight but your whole rant sounds like your beans are better than our beans?
Where are you buying your $3,500 unicorn beans from? In a 10 pack bro?
Got any for sale?

Secondly, true breeding dogs have problems inherent from their breeding. I.e short noses or long bad backs or hip issues.
Mutts look like mutts butt they have genetic diversity that sometimes fixes inbred bad traits.

I have run landrace that has also has broad phenos and the ‘unicorn’ in those would be the mythical representation of the strain you ‘hope’ to find. Take Durban for example. The ‘unicorn’ in that line would be a purple pheno that smells like anise and is potent-af.

I totally hear you that most poly hybrids give that mixed type of 2 hr high that is ‘all the same’. Especially if all you buy is ‘breath’ this or ‘cookie’ that or TGA when it’s all the ‘dude’ male on everything.

And despite you pointing out that poly pheno hunts or whatever seem pointless, I still think even in these circumstances that the practice of looking for the best plants in the 10% is the best practice that everyday Joe’s should get into and feel good about!

Unicorns are in the land of the 10%. They hide in the land of the 100%. They eat the same thing the other plants do and they show themselves to those that are able to see them.

Unicorns can only be found if peeps are keeping seed lines alive as well. So if I’m looking for gold I’m gunna go panning down by the river.
You can keep singing the song of $3,500 unicorn packs that no one is buying??

 

[MtRainDog]

Prices are irrelevant. If the breeding stock is good and has potential, it's a numbers game

 

[Blutri]

Firstly, not trying to pick a fight but your whole rant sounds like your beans are better than our beans?
Where are you buying your $3,500 unicorn beans from? In a 10 pack bro?
Got any for sale?

Secondly, true breeding dogs have problems inherent from their breeding. I.e short noses or long bad backs or hip issues.
Mutts look like mutts butt they have genetic diversity that sometimes fixes inbred bad traits.

I have run landrace that has also has broad phenos and the ‘unicorn’ in those would be the mythical representation of the strain you ‘hope’ to find. Take Durban for example. The ‘unicorn’ in that line would be a purple pheno that smells like anise and is potent-af.

I totally hear you that most poly hybrids give that mixed type of 2 hr high that is ‘all the same’. Especially if all you buy is ‘breath’ this or ‘cookie’ that or TGA when it’s all the ‘dude’ male on everything.

And despite you pointing out that poly pheno hunts or whatever seem pointless, I still think even in these circumstances that the practice of looking for the best plants in the 10% is the best practice that everyday Joe’s should get into and feel good about!

Unicorns are in the land of the 10%. They hide in the land of the 100%. They eat the same thing the other plants do and they show themselves to those that are able to see them.

Unicorns can only be found if peeps are keeping seed lines alive as well. So if I’m looking for gold I’m gunna go panning down by the river.
You can keep singing the song of $3,500 unicorn packs that no one is buying??

You’re good bro. As am I, not here to argue.
The 3500 is hypothetical number brother. Only meant to represent 100x 35 because… I like to keep it 100.
Your points are legitimate bro. Therefore I don’t seed the need to go back and forth about moot points that’s been hashed out on every forum countless times.
If I may, why do you grow brother? For monetary or medical reasons? Or is it simply that you enjoy the act of caring for a living entity?
Durban… purple, anise smelling, potent Af. Sounds like a lot of strains that I have had. And maybe so due to the popularity of the Durban strain. Can I call it that, or is it just some randomly producing cross with a 10% chance of producing your describe unicorn.
Let’s see, there are 1,000’s of Durban seeds being produced in any given grow season.
Let’s do the math. And try to keep it simple.
By your count, if I planted 1,000 Durban seeds, I should produce no less than 100 unicorn pheno plants. Sounds doable. Either I can give 10 friend 100 Durban seeds, or 100 friends 10 Durban seed, together we should be able to produce 100 unicorn pheno Durban plants. Depending on the friend count, each of us will end up with at least 1 unicorn pheno. With numbers like those, that unicorn cut of Durban should be all over the globe by now.
Care to explain why it isn’t. I mean, your math can’t be correct, or else there would be unicorn Durban held by every one by now.
The same principle applies to all the other unicorns cuts and crosses that people are doing large pheno hunting for. However we all know that isn’t the case
The fact is, if the strain was properly produced, anise smelling, purple potent Af Durban would be all over the globe. Something is very wrong with you calculation. Or am I missing some viable input.
Sounds like someone is selling a dream that keep you and countless others searching strains that aren’t producing that which you seek.
You mention cookies…. Aka cannabis’s alter ego. Bred to produce and reproduce its signature unicorns. One in particular is the fabulous ice cream cake. I found a pheno that would give off this marvelous vanilla soft serve Ice cream aroma when smoked. Big, vigorous plant that produced heavy leaf free buds. It was Skunky, Afghan tasting, and loud Af. For a little while at least. Unfortunately, like most cookies strains, the smell dissipated during the cure. Unicorn? I think not. That’s crap is everywhere and it doesn’t seem to be getting any better. You would think that it would be awesome by now since so many people work with it. But we all know it isn’t. Once again, the same principle also applies to durban.
I thought to myself this plant wouldn’t need much work to turn it into something legendary. The only category that it failed in was the hideous 1 dimensional, boring typical, cookie type high that it produced. And that dissipating smell. I know people who would have jumped at the chance to have this this thing. However, this was no unicorn by any of my standards. Tossed in the trash.
But not before breeding to it a cross that I call pine apple dripz. None zittles related. Pineapple dripzs terps are a combination of pine, apples, cherry, tropical punch. With the matching smell. And a high equivalent to being lost in the Amazon rainforest for a couple of weeks. The cross produced plants that smell of vanilla ice cream from 3 feet away without having to touch it. I let you know later on what it taste like and smoke like.
You see brother, why you are searching for unicorns, I’m creating them.
I usually don’t waste time with plants that don’t produce the type of high that I like. As I said before, this plant shows so much promise because it only needs help in the high and smell department. If find that easy enough to fix. Since I’m breeding, I may as well enhance other departments as well.
Better tasting, louder smell, increased potency, and of course, a longer lasting high. And let’s not forget the trip.. remember that lost in the rainforest effects. I mean, why breed, if you aren’t going to do it right.
In my opinion, this is what breeding is all about. For real, purple anise smelling potent Af durban that has been done to death, so why keep producing it.
I do it this way because it gives me that “panning them gold filled streams feeling.”
Any way brother, good luck on your hunt. Peace.

 

[BongerChonger]

Then why would you purchase a plant composed of 4 different parental lines?¿
Wouldn’t that plant be the equivalent of mutt dog?¿. Hold that thought.

I think the better question for the seed maker is, why make the seed in the first place?
What's your objective?

There's no reason why a strain composed of 4 different parental lines, couldn't be great seed.
It's more to do with pot luck and how they're made.
It's a numbers game. More plants to the party, the more genetic variation, the healthier the seed.
Then it's all down to the grower and selecting plants with the qualities they want or like, over time.
And, then it's still all chance, really.

Comparing plant breeding to dog breeding isn't a great example, as inbred seed is something that's sought after.
Again, what is the objective of said breeding program?

Far as mutts go too, some are great!

Takes a lot longer for plant inbreeding to have a negative impact on the plants, deformities etc.
It's the act of crossing 1 singular plant with another that's messing things up.
Straight away it narrows the gene pool down to two parents worth of DNA.
Now do the same every generation.
Not good practice. (AKA pollen chucking)

I think it really just depends on what the grower wants out of their seeds.
The objective's going to be different for everyone.

Landrace seed, or whatever we want to call it, will always be around, so long as it's grown the same way as it always has been.
Huge fields of plants from seed, not cuttings, seeded year to year, selected by the growers for it's qualities.
Environment most of all, is what's kept these heirlooms or landraces unique and will keep doing the same, for as long as it's cultivated in the same environment and fashion.

Modern Cannabis we're doing the opposite. Controlled environments and often only 1 plant or plants chosen.
But again, I think this is mostly the consumer's fault, not the industry's.

Whats not exactly landrace ? Well it wont be now if ghs has polluted it obviously also they may do some charity they call it lol but no wonder the amount of money they make off the backs of these farmers kinda least they can do

I'm just saying it's cultivated seed. Probably has been for thousands of years.
Who's to say they haven't been regularly sharing and trading seed over that time?
I would say they have.
Was the Landrace weed from the same farmers or location different hundreds of years ago?
I'd say most likely, yes!

Landrace to me is truly wild, untouched by man, no stray pollen, no cultivation, no nothing, wild, never been touched.

I personally think it's more important these farmers get to keep growing on their land.
To me environment is everything.
It's an evolutionary process.

 

[Antidote Man]

I'm finding the old Dutch strains keep that skunk funk odor more so than a lot of these later American strains.

I'm also popping 1 seed each, from 8-9 strains, over multiple grows, another 8-9 strains, etc, and getting good rate of females, some are FEM already, but for the most part I'm getting keeper plants. A couple total duds here and there, and a few that don't seem to best represent the strain...

From my experience 2-4 seeds out of a 5 FEM pack should be keepers. From regs 1-3.

 

[conor c]

I think the better question for the seed maker is, why make the seed in the first place?
What's your objective?

There's no reason why a strain composed of 4 different parental lines, couldn't be great seed.
It's more to do with pot luck and how they're made.
It's a numbers game. More plants to the party, the more genetic variation, the healthier the seed.
Then it's all down to the grower and selecting plants with the qualities they want or like, over time.
And, then it's still all chance, really.

Comparing plant breeding to dog breeding isn't a great example, as inbred seed is something that's sought after.
Again, what is the objective of said breeding program?

Far as mutts go too, some are great!

Takes a lot longer for plant inbreeding to have a negative impact on the plants, deformities etc.
It's the act of crossing 1 singular plant with another that's messing things up.
Straight away it narrows the gene pool down to two parents worth of DNA.
Now do the same every generation.
Not good practice. (AKA pollen chucking)

I think it really just depends on what the grower wants out of their seeds.
The objective's going to be different for everyone.

Landrace seed, or whatever we want to call it, will always be around, so long as it's grown the same way as it always has been.
Huge fields of plants from seed, not cuttings, seeded year to year, selected by the growers for it's qualities.
Environment most of all, is what's kept these heirlooms or landraces unique and will keep doing the same, for as long as it's cultivated in the same environment and fashion.

Modern Cannabis we're doing the opposite. Controlled environments and often only 1 plant or plants chosen.
But again, I think this is mostly the consumer's fault, not the industry's.

I'm just saying it's cultivated seed. Probably has been for thousands of years.
Who's to say they haven't been regularly sharing and trading seed over that time?
I would say they have.
Was the Landrace weed from the same farmers or location different hundreds of years ago?
I'd say most likely, yes!

Landrace to me is truly wild, untouched by man, no stray pollen, no cultivation, no nothing, wild, never been touched.

I personally think it's more important these farmers get to keep growing on their land.
To me environment is everything.
It's an evolutionary process.

Your wrong then as that probably doesnt exist there is no cannabis untouched by man landraces still have mans influence and selection placed on em even so called "wild" cannabis isnt truly wild its usually a ruderal escapee from drug type cultivation theres literally no proof of any landraces that are untouched as you say sorry to burst your bubble many wrongly think this so dont worry your not alone many make this mistake to assume landraces are "untouched by man" go ask angus of rsc if you want confirmation that guy has great knowledge/experience on this type of stuff
Also alot of the so called landraces like for example mazari is in fact just a really old hybrid anyway

 

[BongerChonger]

Your wrong then as that probably doesnt exist there is no cannabis untouched by man

That's actually what I was trying to point out, we're both on the same page.