Nitrogen? Overwatering?

[Orin190]

I can't figure out why my plants do this in flower. I did overwater somehow and had to let her dry for a week about 3 weeks ago. 60% ffof and 40% ffhf. Been giving grow big and tiger bloom for the last month. 5 weeks into flower. Added ewc and top dressed 2x over past month.is it tulle fade?? Hlg blackbird at 60% photone showing 900ppfd. 3rd grow happens everytime

 

[crimsonecho]

overwatering is a chronic problem it doesnt happen just because you watered too much one time or if you water until the medium is soaked and turned into mud that one time. on that topic a good soil should never turn into mud due to proper aeration and you should soak it throughly with every watering and let it get fairly dry before watering again.

i think your problem is with that ppfd reading. i know people push over 1000+ ppfds at proper setups with co2 supplementation mostly but according to my calculations i supply around 600-700 ppfd at the peak of flowering and get good results bc i dont supplement co2 and its a closed room so my limiting factor is most probably co2.

this might be your case too because they dont look n toxic to me either. very slightly burnt tips but thats tolerable for the plant and shaded leaves look better than the ones which are directly under the lights. thats my 2 shillings anyway.

also how are your temps?

 

[Comnconnection]

I can't figure out why my plants do this in flower. I did overwater somehow and had to let her dry for a week about 3 weeks ago. 60% ffof and 40% ffhf. Been giving grow big and tiger bloom for the last month. 5 weeks into flower. Added ewc and top dressed 2x over past month.is it tulle fade?? Hlg blackbird at 60% photone showing 900ppfd. 3rd grow happens everytime

Your ppfd might be a little high like crimso said if your not using C02. I’d try be closer to 700, maybe 800, but I don’t see any obvious light bleaching. I will say they for sure look like they just need food, id start with that a pH of 6.5. Ocean forest only has enough food for a few weeks or so and happy frog has even less. Just grow big and tiger bloom? At what rates, pH, EC? You open to other nutrients? Tiger bloom is a 2-8-4, I’d recommend a better balance of like a 1-4-5 from pure blend pro bloom. Prob going to want cal-mag too. If you want to get fancy we can throw in some additives to help the plant get more food out of the soil too. I’ve grown in ocean and roots organic for years, started with the FF nutrients too. I think your flowers are looking great all things considered. Get them some food and you’ll be on track for a decent finish. I want to add that FF nutrients will work fine and give you great results too, don’t spend money if you don’t want or need too. Prob just need to up the rates.

 

[Orin190]

overwatering is a chronic problem it doesnt happen just because you watered too much one time or if you water until the medium is soaked and turned into mud that one time. on that topic a good soil should never turn into mud due to proper aeration and you should soak it throughly with every watering and let it get fairly dry before watering again.

i think your problem is with that ppfd reading. i know people push over 1000+ ppfds at proper setups with co2 supplementation mostly but according to my calculations i supply around 600-700 ppfd at the peak of flowering and get good results bc i dont supplement co2 and its a closed room so my limiting factor is most probably co2.

this might be your case too because they dont look n toxic to me either. very slightly burnt tips but thats tolerable for the plant and shaded leaves look better than the ones which are directly under the lights. thats my 2 shillings anyway.

also how are your temps?

Temps are 68 (overnight with light off) - 78/80 (throughout the day with light on) my setup is in hte basement where it is 65 degrees naturally.

I'll try turning the light down a notch

 

[Orin190]

Your ppfd might be a little high like crimso said if your not using C02. I’d try be closer to 700, maybe 800, but I don’t see any obvious light bleaching. I will say they for sure look like they just need food, id start with that a pH of 6.5. Ocean forest only has enough food for a few weeks or so and happy frog has even less. Just grow big and tiger bloom? At what rates, pH, EC? You open to other nutrients? Tiger bloom is a 2-8-4, I’d recommend a better balance of like a 1-4-5 from pure blend pro bloom. Prob going to want cal-mag too. If you want to get fancy we can throw in some additives to help the plant get more food out of the soil too. I’ve grown in ocean and roots organic for years, started with the FF nutrients too. I think your flowers are looking great all things considered. Get them some food and you’ll be on track for a decent finish. I want to add that FF nutrients will work fine and give you great results too, don’t spend money if you don’t want or need too. Prob just need to up the rates.

I've been very careful on overwatering and i was thinking i underwatered however i put no extra pearlite in the soil. Straight ffof and ffhf. Just made some new soil for next grow and added extra pearlite beacuse i feel like the middle is still wet and the top outside and bottom completely bone ass dry. I only water every 4/5 days ish. Which brings me to if I am supposed to feed 2x a week im only watering 1 or 2x per week. Should I be feeding every time? I do now and feel like every 3/4 feedings it needs just good ole water and a small flush. I overwatered when I was watering one night and somehow I put ~1.75 gallons in and barely got any runoff it was really weird because that's a lot of water...... but they're in cloth pots so i thought well that's odd but whatever anything extra will runoff. Then she started suffocating so i let her dry out for a week and it looked much better. I do just shy of about 1 gallon per watering.

PH is ~6 EC - not sure

Yes i am open to other nutes (for next grow) for sure. I will also be doing photos next run from gooeybreeder.

So my conclusion, turn down the lights a notch and maybe feed at full strength next time?

Thank you!

 

[Orin190]

I also do cal mag most waterings. 3/4 in a row then skip for a watering. 5ml per gallon

 

[Triplefastaction]

My opinion only of course …. You could turn down your lights, tweak your feed, and you’ll get there eventually with plants that stay mostly green til harvest

Or, you could keep the light intensity the same (900 ppfd should be manageable), increase your feed and ultimately grow better cannabis. Good luck!

 

[Comnconnection]

I've been very careful on overwatering and i was thinking i underwatered however i put no extra pearlite in the soil. Straight ffof and ffhf. Just made some new soil for next grow and added extra pearlite beacuse i feel like the middle is still wet and the top outside and bottom completely bone ass dry. I only water every 4/5 days ish. Which brings me to if I am supposed to feed 2x a week im only watering 1 or 2x per week. Should I be feeding every time? I do now and feel like every 3/4 feedings it needs just good ole water and a small flush. I overwatered when I was watering one night and somehow I put ~1.75 gallons in and barely got any runoff it was really weird because that's a lot of water...... but they're in cloth pots so i thought well that's odd but whatever anything extra will runoff. Then she started suffocating so i let her dry out for a week and it looked much better. I do just shy of about 1 gallon per watering.

PH is ~6 EC - not sure

Yes i am open to other nutes (for next grow) for sure. I will also be doing photos next run from gooeybreeder.

So my conclusion, turn down the lights a notch and maybe feed at full strength next time?

Thank you!

Sounds like your doing a good job of trying to be on top of things. Yeah id back the light off a little to like 750-800 without C02, but like I said I don't see any bleaching, you might be able to leave it like triplefast said and see if just the feed helps. A common practice for watering soil is to water well with 10-20% runoff just to make sure the root ball is well soaked. Then let it dry back to where its like a dryish damp sponge, you don't want it dry dry. When the ocean soil dries out in tends to become a little hydrophobic, so sometimes water will run out the side of the pots or run through little channels, not saturating everything evenly, so I always opt for slow watering and runoff. Also if your feeding with liquid nutrients its a good idea to get some run off each time you water or feed to avoid build up. Based on pictures and info, Id guess you should be watering every other day or every 2-3 days right now. Week 5 they can take the most food and water.

As far as watering, you'll want to alternate between plain r/o water with just a little calmag and your main nutrient mix. So if you fed last water, don't feed next water. However, when you transplant into a fresh pot of soil you have food, so you just have the same watering every time, which is 1ml botanicare calmag, dash of great white, 2ml full power, and 1ml FF big bloom per gallon in R/O water. Use some silica and trinity or other carb at 1ml/gal once every week or two to give microbes a boost and strengthen plants. This gives you a nice low EC tea that helps the soil feed your plant and feeds your plant actively a little too. Keep your pH between 6.3-6.8 and let it drift a little in between there, don't do same pH every time. Naturally the nutrient mix is usually the lower pH water and the plain calmag water is the higher pH water.
Once the plants start to look like they need food, which is a lime green look, some yellowing leaves, you'll start to add in either your grow or your bloom to the above mix. There are other additives you can add too. But basically thats like 2-3 weeks after planting into a good bag soil, and you want to catch it as soon as you can, right when they seem to not look perfect anymore.

Sounds like you don't have an EC meter, you should get one for mixing nutes to be safe. But right now I would feed with 2ml calmag, 5ml tiger bloom, and 15ml big bloom if thats all you have at a pH of 6.5-6.8. The pH is on the higher side because you've been watering with 6.0 and we want to counter that for nutrient availability. Water well and get some good runoff. We want to give them a lot of food to pull them out of the deficiency to try to save the yield a little. Then next water do just the plain calmag water and so on. Stop calmag at week 7, stop all food week 8. Boost to 6-8ml tiger bloom if you think they can take it after watching them respond to the 5ml feed. You shouldn't need to flush because your plain calmag water to runoff flushes them a little each time and you get runoff from nutrient mix too and were not feeding a crazy hot mix.

Personally I don't think you need the extra perlite in the soil, all soils dry out from the outside in, top down, especially in fabric pots. And honestly, its rather hard to overwater a plant in a fabric pot with a good soil unless you really drown it or your environment is very off. And overwatering doesn't come from how much you put through per say, its more about if you keep it soggy wet consistently. I have done the same thing with the same idea as you, but what ends up happening is that your starting to fill more of your pot volume with perlite, which is an inert medium vs soil that has food. So you can end up needing to treat it more like a soilless mix and feed with more liquids more often, which is fine, its just a different direction then an amended soil that mostly feeds the plant for you. We can talk about amended soils if you want. I would recommend switching over to roots organic original, but ocean is still good. You could do side by side too. Maybe just add some worm castings and a bag of FF planting mix to that soil you mixed up to compensate for the pearlite, or just run it, maybe you'll like it.

 

[Orin190]

Sounds like your doing a good job of trying to be on top of things. Yeah id back the light off a little to like 750-800 without C02, but like I said I don't see any bleaching, you might be able to leave it like triplefast said and see if just the feed helps. A common practice for watering soil is to water well with 10-20% runoff just to make sure the root ball is well soaked. Then let it dry back to where its like a dryish damp sponge, you don't want it dry dry. When the ocean soil dries out in tends to become a little hydrophobic, so sometimes water will run out the side of the pots or run through little channels, not saturating everything evenly, so I always opt for slow watering and runoff. Also if your feeding with liquid nutrients its a good idea to get some run off each time you water or feed to avoid build up. Based on pictures and info, Id guess you should be watering every other day or every 2-3 days right now. Week 5 they can take the most food and water.

As far as watering, you'll want to alternate between plain r/o water with just a little calmag and your main nutrient mix. So if you fed last water, don't feed next water. However, when you transplant into a fresh pot of soil you have food, so you just have the same watering every time, which is 1ml botanicare calmag, dash of great white, 2ml full power, and 1ml FF big bloom per gallon in R/O water. Use some silica and trinity or other carb at 1ml/gal once every week or two to give microbes a boost and strengthen plants. This gives you a nice low EC tea that helps the soil feed your plant and feeds your plant actively a little too. Keep your pH between 6.3-6.8 and let it drift a little in between there, don't do same pH every time. Naturally the nutrient mix is usually the lower pH water and the plain calmag water is the higher pH water.
Once the plants start to look like they need food, which is a lime green look, some yellowing leaves, you'll start to add in either your grow or your bloom to the above mix. There are other additives you can add too. But basically thats like 2-3 weeks after planting into a good bag soil, and you want to catch it as soon as you can, right when they seem to not look perfect anymore.

Sounds like you don't have an EC meter, you should get one for mixing nutes to be safe. But right now I would feed with 2ml calmag, 5ml tiger bloom, and 15ml big bloom if thats all you have at a pH of 6.5-6.8. The pH is on the higher side because you've been watering with 6.0 and we want to counter that for nutrient availability. Water well and get some good runoff. We want to give them a lot of food to pull them out of the deficiency to try to save the yield a little. Then next water do just the plain calmag water and so on. Stop calmag at week 7, stop all food week 8. Boost to 6-8ml tiger bloom if you think they can take it after watching them respond to the 5ml feed. You shouldn't need to flush because your plain calmag water to runoff flushes them a little each time and you get runoff from nutrient mix too and were not feeding a crazy hot mix.

Personally I don't think you need the extra perlite in the soil, all soils dry out from the outside in, top down, especially in fabric pots. And honestly, its rather hard to overwater a plant in a fabric pot with a good soil unless you really drown it or your environment is very off. And overwatering doesn't come from how much you put through per say, its more about if you keep it soggy wet consistently. I have done the same thing with the same idea as you, but what ends up happening is that your starting to fill more of your pot volume with perlite, which is an inert medium vs soil that has food. So you can end up needing to treat it more like a soilless mix and feed with more liquids more often, which is fine, its just a different direction then an amended soil that mostly feeds the plant for you. We can talk about amended soils if you want. I would recommend switching over to roots organic original, but ocean is still good. You could do side by side too. Maybe just add some worm castings and a bag of FF planting mix to that soil you mixed up to compensate for the pearlite, or just run it, maybe you'll like it.

dude you have no idea how much i appreciate this response and i will respond again after i read it 4 more times lol. My comprehension sucks and i need like 20 minutes in a row to sit down and go through but thank you thank you thank you.

 

[Orin190]

Sounds like your doing a good job of trying to be on top of things. Yeah id back the light off a little to like 750-800 without C02, but like I said I don't see any bleaching, you might be able to leave it like triplefast said and see if just the feed helps. A common practice for watering soil is to water well with 10-20% runoff just to make sure the root ball is well soaked. Then let it dry back to where its like a dryish damp sponge, you don't want it dry dry. When the ocean soil dries out in tends to become a little hydrophobic, so sometimes water will run out the side of the pots or run through little channels, not saturating everything evenly, so I always opt for slow watering and runoff. Also if your feeding with liquid nutrients its a good idea to get some run off each time you water or feed to avoid build up. Based on pictures and info, Id guess you should be watering every other day or every 2-3 days right now. Week 5 they can take the most food and water.

As far as watering, you'll want to alternate between plain r/o water with just a little calmag and your main nutrient mix. So if you fed last water, don't feed next water. However, when you transplant into a fresh pot of soil you have food, so you just have the same watering every time, which is 1ml botanicare calmag, dash of great white, 2ml full power, and 1ml FF big bloom per gallon in R/O water. Use some silica and trinity or other carb at 1ml/gal once every week or two to give microbes a boost and strengthen plants. This gives you a nice low EC tea that helps the soil feed your plant and feeds your plant actively a little too. Keep your pH between 6.3-6.8 and let it drift a little in between there, don't do same pH every time. Naturally the nutrient mix is usually the lower pH water and the plain calmag water is the higher pH water.
Once the plants start to look like they need food, which is a lime green look, some yellowing leaves, you'll start to add in either your grow or your bloom to the above mix. There are other additives you can add too. But basically thats like 2-3 weeks after planting into a good bag soil, and you want to catch it as soon as you can, right when they seem to not look perfect anymore.

Sounds like you don't have an EC meter, you should get one for mixing nutes to be safe. But right now I would feed with 2ml calmag, 5ml tiger bloom, and 15ml big bloom if thats all you have at a pH of 6.5-6.8. The pH is on the higher side because you've been watering with 6.0 and we want to counter that for nutrient availability. Water well and get some good runoff. We want to give them a lot of food to pull them out of the deficiency to try to save the yield a little. Then next water do just the plain calmag water and so on. Stop calmag at week 7, stop all food week 8. Boost to 6-8ml tiger bloom if you think they can take it after watching them respond to the 5ml feed. You shouldn't need to flush because your plain calmag water to runoff flushes them a little each time and you get runoff from nutrient mix too and were not feeding a crazy hot mix.

Personally I don't think you need the extra perlite in the soil, all soils dry out from the outside in, top down, especially in fabric pots. And honestly, its rather hard to overwater a plant in a fabric pot with a good soil unless you really drown it or your environment is very off. And overwatering doesn't come from how much you put through per say, its more about if you keep it soggy wet consistently. I have done the same thing with the same idea as you, but what ends up happening is that your starting to fill more of your pot volume with perlite, which is an inert medium vs soil that has food. So you can end up needing to treat it more like a soilless mix and feed with more liquids more often, which is fine, its just a different direction then an amended soil that mostly feeds the plant for you. We can talk about amended soils if you want. I would recommend switching over to roots organic original, but ocean is still good. You could do side by side too. Maybe just add some worm castings and a bag of FF planting mix to that soil you mixed up to compensate for the pearlite, or just run it, maybe you'll like it.

When I water i usually get about that in runoff sometimes a little less so that's good. I could probably do a full gallon though which i will start doing.

In regards to watering I have been using tap water that i let sit out for a few days. I did just get an R/O filter for my humidifier because everything was turning white lmao. So I should be using r/o water with some cal mag ffor when i am not feeding and just watering them like in between a feeding? When i do water the soil on top is definitely hydrophobic and the water drips out the sides (slightly i stop watering when i see this and wait 1-15 minutes and that usually helps a lot). Before I water i stick my finger in the soil, the top 2 sometimes 2 inches are bone dry but then it's still wet in the middle but by wet i mean very similar to how when you open the bag of soil how it comes - is this when i need to water? I thought that's why i got messed up and overwatered. I am assuming i overwatered beacuse it was wilted and lifeless and i didn't water for a week and she started growing really strong after like 5-6 days, color came back and everything.

I don't have an EC meter i do have an inkbirdPLUS and it does temp/ppm/PH. I also don't have an actual popfd meter which my buddy keeps nagging me to get one because you "can't grow without one" - true? I use the Photone app on my phone with no diffuser or anything and just run with it. Wtf is EC?

For my next watering should i do straight water/calmag? I've fed them the last 2 times kinda, the time before last they got the grow big and tiger bloom and cal mag OH AND a banana tea (i shoved 5-6 banana peels in a mason jar with water and closed it and let it go until it started bubbling, a couple days, and poured that in for phosphorus??? idk it sounded good and i did that one other time a few weeks ago) not sure if that even works.. who knows. ... Or should I feed it because it's hungry and do water next time?

So about this roots organic ??? I am about to start another grow (gooeybreeder seeds come in today) and they're photos and i've only done autos so far but i want to do some cool LST and stuff and you don't get the time with autos (or im not good enough yet).. I grow weed more for the growing of it as it's fun and gives me something to do. I'd like to have one of them really cool looking plants one day that's like 2 feet tall and a giant ass perfectly circular bush with 42 colas coming off it everywhere lol. I did add a bag of EWC when i added the pearlite. I just feel like the soil on the inside isn't drying out nearly as quick as the rest which makes no sense because thats mainly you'd think where the plant drinks from but maybe it wasn't overwatering maybe it needed more nutes.......damn i hate thinking.......



Environment is pretty consistent it does get down to about 68 throughout the night and then at about 3pm it works back up to 80, never goes over 81. RH ~ 50-55very consistent as it's all hooked up to the acinfinity controller and i have max/min temp/humidity set.

I am still all ears

 

[Billy the Mountain]

...
I don't have an EC meter i do have an inkbirdPLUS and it does temp/ppm/PH. I also don't have an actual popfd meter which my buddy keeps nagging me to get one because you "can't grow without one" - true? I use the Photone app on my phone with no diffuser or anything and just run with it. Wtf is EC?
...

You unknowingly do have an EC meter. Your meter is measuring electrical conductivity (EC) and displaying it as a ppm value. For most U.S. meters the conversion constant is 500. E.g. 500 "ppm" = 1.0 EC. The problem with tds/ppm meters is that they're misleading in that they don't accurately measure ppm (unless you're measuring table salt) and cause needless confusion. Just keep in mind that the ppm displayed is actually a measure of conductivity and not dissolved solids.

 

[Paul-n-Chukka]

My last couple batches of FFOF have had later releases of N and lower pH.
Compared to 15yrs of previous FFOF.
But I have never needed to use Grow big during flower.

I only use growbig one week before flipping to flower along with open sesame.

Flower-
BigBloom,Tiger, and 1 of the 3 dry boosters below:

First 2wks-OpenSesame (no growbig)

3-4wk-Beastie (no growbig)

5til flush- Chaching (no growbig)

Let it dry out before you feed/water. Always check pH feed ,water & runoff

 

[Orin190]

So, what's the ruling on a quantum par and EC meter. Must have or get by without?

 

[Orin190]

My last couple batches of FFOF have had later releases of N and lower pH.
Compared to 15yrs of previous FFOF.
But I have never needed to use Grow big during flower.

I only use growbig one week before flipping to flower along with open sesame.

Flower-
BigBloom,Tiger, and 1 of the 3 dry boosters below:

First 2wks-OpenSesame (no growbig)

3-4wk-Beastie (no growbig)

5til flush- Chaching (no growbig)

Let it dry out before you feed/water. Always check pH feed ,water & runoff

Okay so i need a few more nutes if i stick with ff nutes... thank you. I thought the trio would be enough

 

[Paul-n-Chukka]

Okay so i need a few more nutes if i stick with ff nutes... thank you. I thought the trio would be enough

Well idk anything about autos. Sorry but i piped in before re-reading your variables and think i saw that this might be an auto.

Funny fact :
Recently I actually saw my bio-Dad(never met him) on social media and he grows Autos! ...haha
I'm over half-century old myself.
But considering he was a SoCal 1960s teen that ran off to NorthShore when i was born.... I would think he'd be more of an advanced cultivator.

 

[Orin190]

Well idk anything about autos. Sorry but i piped in before re-reading your variables and think i saw that this might be an auto.

Funny fact :
Recently I actually saw my bio-Dad(never met him) on social media and he grows Autos! ...haha
I'm over half-century old myself.
But considering he was a SoCal 1960s teen that ran off to NorthShore when i was born.... I would think he'd be more of an advanced cultivator.

i don't know this is kinda neat or just flat out shitty...

They are autos but I literally just got a pack of mom gooey x old mendo haze photo fems from gooey breeder in the mail

Why everyone hate on autos? Are they easier to grow or harder or something? Maybe you don't have as much control but i can't complain ... so far ... but it's all i know

 

[Billy the Mountain]

It's all a matter of perspective.
I would ask: Why all the interest in autos? Timer-phobia? A tent-less grow in a living room? Free electricity?

One could make the argument they are "harder" to grow, in that you have little opportunity to correct errors. A mistake in veg with a photo can almost always be fixed, the same isn't true with autos.

 

[Orin190]

It's all a matter of perspective.
I would ask: Why all the interest in autos? Timer-phobia? A tent-less grow in a living room? Free electricity?

One could make the argument they are "harder" to grow, in that you have little opportunity to correct errors. A mistake in veg with a photo can almost always be fixed, the same isn't true with autos.

i dont really care weed is weed. autos so far for me have been cool. can't wait to pop these new beans though.

 

[Orin190]

Holy shit I bought 5 seeds and got 35.........I almost threw away 3 packs......

 

[harris hawk]

I can't figure out why my plants do this in flower. I did overwater somehow and had to let her dry for a week about 3 weeks ago. 60% ffof and 40% ffhf. Been giving grow big and tiger bloom for the last month. 5 weeks into flower. Added ewc and top dressed 2x over past month.is it tulle fade?? Hlg blackbird at 60% photone showing 900ppfd. 3rd grow happens everytime

If watering issuer your leaves would be drooping