The renewable energy changes and policy

[Sativied]

but with more people coming into this world over the next ten years comes more demand for nutrition and there are already too many people experiencing undernourishment at this time.

Yes can't feed the 10bil expected population in the same way we do now and also reach climate goals. And already 2/3rd is undernourished or obese. 70% of farmland in Europe is used to create food for animals. With PF, countries can be self-sufficient. One of the reasons EU is all over it.

"Simply because plant-based and alternative proteins remain one of the most powerful weapons against climate change " - Deloitte

The solar market in Germany initially boomed a few years ago because of government subsidies. ASML in NL (manufacturer of printers for most of the advanced chips) made possible lots of government subsidies. It sure looks like this could end up the same.

In 2022 NL pumped 60mil of the national grow fund in education for 'clean meat' and PF. Not just universities, lower level too. Considering the population difference, that's 1.2bil in US. For education to make sure there are enough qualified people to work in the sector, which there currently aren't. Small potatoes compared to the total amount of money being invested now and in the coming years.

Wageningen University started a lab in Food Valley (there's quite a few areas in Europe that aren't actually valleys but are sillicon valley status wannabees), huge fermentation tank, where students, researchers and companies (including farmers) work together. Not in a weird science project, but how to turn it into products and trade. De-risk by collaboration, VOC mentality...

https://www.unilever.com/news/press-and-media/press-releases/2022/unilever-and-geno-launch-120m-venture-to-scale-alternative-ingredients/

"To scale." Unilever... if it's a houshold name in NL, overpriced, sold because of funny or cool commercials, it's from Unilever. They're like the Shell of supermarket products. Moved to UK before Shell did. Palm oil is in 50% of all supermarket products. I don't care so much for the prophecies, but that sounds like gospel (good news) to me (palm oil production is devastating). Nestle, Danone, all the big dairy and food companies joined the race.

A key part of the EU Green Deal is to be climate-neutral by 2050, affecting all industries, including agriculture. Reduction of livestock and farmers was already a given, farmers are already bought out (we just bought out a good part of the fishing fleet too), their subsidies will continue to reduce, the climate regulations and animal welfare demands increase. Belgium has the same problem as NL, West of Germany, North of France similar. In 2030-2035, there already will be far less farmers to resist progress.

"If we remain on track for an 11% share for alternative proteins by 2035, we will see a
reduction of 0.85 gigaton of CO2 equivalent (CO2e) worldwide by 2030 – equal to
decarbonising 95% of the aviation industry"

And that's just the CO2 output, the benefits are abundant it would take off even if we had taken better care of the planet.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Yes can't feed the 10bil expected population in the same way we do now and also reach climate goals. And already 2/3rd is undernourished or obese. 70% of farmland in Europe is used to create food for animals. With PF, countries can be self-sufficient. One of the reasons EU is all over it.

"Simply because plant-based and alternative proteins remain one of the most powerful weapons against climate change " - Deloitte

The solar market in Germany initially boomed a few years ago because of government subsidies. ASML in NL (manufacturer of printers for most of the advanced chips) made possible lots of government subsidies. It sure looks like this could end up the same.

In 2022 NL pumped 60mil of the national grow fund in education for 'clean meat' and PF. Not just universities, lower level too. Considering the population difference, that's 1.2bil in US. For education to make sure there are enough qualified people to work in the sector, which there currently aren't. Small potatoes compared to the total amount of money being invested now and in the coming years.

Wageningen University started a lab in Food Valley (there's quite a few areas in Europe that aren't actually valleys but are sillicon valley status wannabees), huge fermentation tank, where students, researchers and companies (including farmers) work together. Not in a weird science project, but how to turn it into products and trade. De-risk by collaboration, VOC mentality...

https://www.unilever.com/news/press-and-media/press-releases/2022/unilever-and-geno-launch-120m-venture-to-scale-alternative-ingredients/

"To scale." Unilever... if it's a houshold name in NL, overpriced, sold because of funny or cool commercials, it's from Unilever. They're like the Shell of supermarket products. Moved to UK before Shell did. Palm oil is in 50% of all supermarket products. I don't care so much for the prophecies, but that sounds like gospel (good news) to me (palm oil production is devastating). Nestle, Danone, all the big dairy and food companies joined the race.

A key part of the EU Green Deal is to be climate-neutral by 2050, affecting all industries, including agriculture. Reduction of livestock and farmers was already a given, farmers are already bought out (we just bought out a good part of the fishing fleet too), their subsidies will continue to reduce, the climate regulations and animal welfare demands increase. Belgium has the same problem as NL, West of Germany, North of France similar. In 2030-2035, there already will be far less farmers to resist progress.

"If we remain on track for an 11% share for alternative proteins by 2035, we will see a
reduction of 0.85 gigaton of CO2 equivalent (CO2e) worldwide by 2030 – equal to
decarbonising 95% of the aviation industry"

And that's just the CO2 output, the benefits are abundant it would take off even if we had taken better care of the planet.

PF should work fine and scale anything that uses complete organisms with some kind of natural immunity so that simpler methods of production are enabled. Growing mammalian cells in bioreactors can't scale to the required sizes or economies, so alternative methods must be found.

 

[cannabineer]

I appreciate the elaborate coherent post.


I mentioned something similar regarding the batter technologies in the climate change thread, so yeah. I don't understand they whole admiration for perceived prophetic abilities either. Anyway, regardless, that doesn't dismiss PF, and as I mentioned in an earlier post, considering the parties involved, it sure seems inevitable. The race is on and the demand is higher than the supply. Both will increase, the only question is how far and how fast.

I said it before in this thread, can't speak for American millennials, but the ones here, and younger generation - aside from the ones who went nazi of course - will be all over it. It's not the quality and quantity difference, it whether it's green or involves murdering animals. I hope to live long enough till I order 'the dead animal version, please' and get a snarky comment or dissaproving look at least. Boomers had an excuse, their parents went through war. What excuse do we have for killing 2million cows a year, 16 million pigs, and over 600million barely-chickens in just NL. It's barbarous. Or will be at least. (Personally I'm not talking about hunting food, I'm talking about mega meat factories).

Obviously, this is from my perspective, which is from dairy country, and, after the US, NL is the largest exporter of agricultural product on the globe. That alone should tell you something about how much things needs to change (US is 237 larger than NL). We're effectively a single point of failure. If we flood, get nuked, produce more 'effective' burd flu or other virus strains, everyone dies it would have dramatic global effects. The little nature we have is dying because of nitrogen excess, because of cows and chicken and pigs and goats. Can't build houses for the same reason, can't house immigrants or children still living at their parents at 30 because of that, nazis getting elected because of that. On top of all that export, we import a shitload too. On top of that, the population is expected to grow with millions more.


It's true what you say about the appreciation of meat in the TnT thread but that's really just one aspect of it and the bacon is more a running joke sort of thing. The reason I started cooking and indirectly join the thread is what you covered in your post already, "peasant food is monotonous or not prepared well". Well that sums it up. I went on about how typical dutch food sucks and all... While I post a lot of meat and chicken and fish dishes myself, I don't come anywhere near the average of meat intake for NL. More than meat the thread in TnT appreciated food, recipes, history. I noticed you posting interesting recipes over the years, wouldn't not mind seeing pics.

Now one of the great things about PF: endless variety. It won't just match texture, it will be better. It won't just match taste, it will be much better. It won't be as nutritious, it'll be much better. It won't be as cheap as they predict, but it will be far more affordable than animal-based products by then. Even without any climate benefits it would end up being normalized.

It's only the resulting poo of that 'fungus' that matters, which "depends on its genetic makeup. They [for decades already] can be alcohols; also proteins, fats and enzymes are within this range. Like n-butanol (used in the production of artificial rubber), penicillin, citric acid, a number of amino acids and vitamins like C, B2, B12 and D2."

Genetically modified, it can and will serve us very well.

So, let's turn this argument on its head. Instead of trying to explain how mushroom meat can solve food production issues, let's look at the food production crisis and ask how hyphae heifers can help?

How much land is needed for global food production under scenarios of dietary changes and livestock productivity increases in 2030?

Growing global population figures and per-capita incomes imply an increase in food demand and pressure to expand agricultural land. Agricultural expan…

www.sciencedirect.com

.

Still-growing global population figures and per-capita incomes and the need to decrease undernourishment imply increased pressure on the global food supply system. This amplifies the risk of further expansion of agricultural land into forests and other land with high biodiversity values. In addition, if stringent policies aimed at curbing climatic change are implemented – by substantially increasing the cost of emitting carbon dioxide (CO2) through taxes or emissions cap and trade schemes – demand for biomass for energy purposes is likely to increase dramatically (Gielen et al., 2003, van Vuuren et al., 2004).

Put otherwise, in order to decrease undernourishment that is a problem today and will get worse as the world population grows, more land will be needed to be converted from carbon sequestering land (e.g. forests, peat bogs, wetlands) and into carbon emitting purposes -- agriculture. What does this have to do with myco-moo cows?

https://humaneherald.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/production-of-foods-per-acre.pdf

How many pounds of grain can one acre produce? - Good in Every Grain

How many pounds of grain can one acre produce? Grain is typically measured in tonnage not pounds due to the largest amount grown each year!

goodineverygrain.ca

Land that is used to produce beef does so at a rate of 150 lb/acre.
Land that is used to produce vegetables does so at a rate of 32,000 lb/acre.
Land that is used to produce grain does so at a rate of about 4,000 lb/acre.

So, every 150 lb of fungus based fake beef (assuming it's of acceptable quality) frees up an acre that can produce 20 times more weight in grain or 200 times more weight in vegetables. Of course it's more complicated than this but to me it makes more sense when put this way. Poor people of the world don't eat beef mainly because they can't afford it. So, I can see now why this tech fills a need. Feed beef eaters with this stuff and free land up for more productive uses. US Americans ate 50 Billion pounds of beef last year. Even a 10% bite of this number equal 5 B pounds of beef

that frees up 33 million acres for growing 1,560 Billion pounds of vegetables
or 132 million pounds of grain.
and leaves 33 million acres in trust for preserving wildlife and sequestering carbon.

So, go forth, Silicon Valley Vulture Capitalist. Figure out how to feed the frat boys their corn dogs or whatever other use you can find for mushroom meat.

Free the land.

You've probably been saying this all along and I just didn't get it. But I do now. I'm a believer, DIY.

Your fungal flaysh alliterations are on point!

Minor niggle: the veg are mostly water. Dried, the yield is closer to that of grain. (Though the veg are better nutrition, not so carb-heavy.)

The argument at the end is compelling imo. Freeing most of the land currently under agriculture’s yoke and restoring it to protected wilderness is a magnificent objective, a fitting epilogue to the industrial revolution.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

"Simply because plant-based and alternative proteins remain one of the most powerful weapons against climate change " - Deloitte

Plants are macro-organisms that can easily scale and there is extensive genetic experience with them. Starting the process with a more appropriate genetically modified plant(s) that produced the proteins or ammino acids you were after seems a viable route to make protein foods after processing and PF, or even cell culture produced things were added etc.

 

[Sativied]

Eat shit and smile, gimme more!

Don't eat the shit directly, yuck, ferment it:



instead of now:



"Moving forward with farmers

In transition theory, crises are seen as the shocks that are sometimes needed to set big societal change (for the better) in motion. But when you are in the middle of it, it simply is a crisis. And what you need most is real, tangible, positive perspectives.

Those Vegan Cowboys can’t imagine a future without farmers. Having a farmer as our CEO, we see a future for dairy that changes nothing but the machinery in the farmer’s stable. Instead of a live cow, we offer farmers a way more efficient milk machine. We take the next logical step in dairy production. From hand milking, via the milking machine to the fully automatic milking robot of today.

Moving forward together with farmers is natural to us and we are open for collaboration. Moreover: we can’t do this without them."

From last month.

Those Vegan Cowboys Open €15 Million Financing Round to Scale Casein for Animal-Free Cheese - vegconomist - the vegan business magazine

Belgian biotech Those Vegan Cowboys has opened a financing round to raise €15 million to further advance and scale its precision fermentation platform (named

vegconomist.com

Ah I see now from where I recognize the name. They also created the Vegetarian Butcher, but sold it to Unilever alreadt. The Vegetarian Butcher is pretty popular here, an established brand, and takes a good part of that alt-meat section we got in grocery stores. Few years ago there were several lawsuit about whether they could call their product 'meat', or 'vlees' in dutch. It's now called vleesch (like fleisch in german).

The Vegetarian Butcher Launches Vegan Christmas Turkey in Rotterdam's First Plant-Based Butchery - vegconomist - the vegan business magazine

Unilever's The Vegetarian Butcher has introduced handmade holiday specials, including stuffed vegan Christmas turkey at its newly opened plant-based butchery

vegconomist.com

They sell a huge range of products, meat replacements.

Swedish meatballs:

and sausages, and empanadas, and pretty much all the common meat products. Even bacon:



As with PF the advantage (over eating salads sort of speak) is that we can continue to use the same old recipes and preparation methods (so ozzies can throw it on the barbie).

 

[Sativied]

Freeing most of the land currently under agriculture’s yoke and restoring it to protected wilderness is a magnificent objective, a fitting epilogue to the industrial revolution.

I'm looking back a little further than the industrial revolution. About 1400 years ago, christians came and cut down the holy trees of my ancestors. To show the old gods had no power to stop them. There's a story about how every person christianized resulted in a tree getting cut, and that matches how some the least forested areas in NL are also the most christian and churched areas. We cut the trees to build ships but ah well, it would give me extra enjoyment to see exactly those areas being rewilded, forested.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Don't eat the shit directly, yuck, ferment it:

View attachment 5362320

instead of now:

View attachment 5362321

"Moving forward with farmers

In transition theory, crises are seen as the shocks that are sometimes needed to set big societal change (for the better) in motion. But when you are in the middle of it, it simply is a crisis. And what you need most is real, tangible, positive perspectives.

Those Vegan Cowboys can’t imagine a future without farmers. Having a farmer as our CEO, we see a future for dairy that changes nothing but the machinery in the farmer’s stable. Instead of a live cow, we offer farmers a way more efficient milk machine. We take the next logical step in dairy production. From hand milking, via the milking machine to the fully automatic milking robot of today.

Moving forward together with farmers is natural to us and we are open for collaboration. Moreover: we can’t do this without them."

From last month.

Those Vegan Cowboys Open €15 Million Financing Round to Scale Casein for Animal-Free Cheese - vegconomist - the vegan business magazine

Belgian biotech Those Vegan Cowboys has opened a financing round to raise €15 million to further advance and scale its precision fermentation platform (named

vegconomist.com

Ah I see now from where I recognize the name. They also created the Vegetarian Butcher, but sold it to Unilever alreadt. The Vegetarian Butcher is pretty popular here, an established brand, and takes a good part of that alt-meat section we got in grocery stores. Few years ago there were several lawsuit about whether they could call their product 'meat', or 'vlees' in dutch. It's now called vleesch (like fleisch in german).

The Vegetarian Butcher Launches Vegan Christmas Turkey in Rotterdam's First Plant-Based Butchery - vegconomist - the vegan business magazine

Unilever's The Vegetarian Butcher has introduced handmade holiday specials, including stuffed vegan Christmas turkey at its newly opened plant-based butchery

vegconomist.com

They sell a huge range of products, meat replacements.

Swedish meatballs:

View attachment 5362326 and sausages, and empanadas, and pretty much all the common meat products. Even bacon:

View attachment 5362327

As with PF the advantage (over eating salads sort of speak) is that we can continue to use the same old recipes and preparation methods (so ozzies can throw it on the barbie).

There is a future in it, but I don't think it will be mammalian cell-based mass production, except small scale used as additives like heme etc. There are several approaches possible from plant, to fungal, to aquaculture type mediums using marine organisms in a food chain powered by solar, another kind of farm really. The main thing is livestock agriculture won't be going away as quickly as RethinkX forecasts and no significant part of it will be replaced by mammalian cell culture except for expensive exotic meats. We must look to genetically modified complete natural organisms as alternatives, probably macro-organisms like plants fungi or marine life, maybe even genetically modified sponges feed by plankton or whatever can be solar powered. The animal class organisms or close might work better for meat and fish substitutions.

Dairy products are the obvious target and the processed food market for now, but there is the high price of olive oil and PF can produce lipids...

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I'm looking back a little further than the industrial revolution. About 1400 years ago, christians came and cut down the holy trees of my ancestors. To show the old gods had no power to stop them. There's a story about how every person christianized resulted in a tree getting cut, and that matches how some the least forested areas in NL are also the most christian and churched areas. We cut the trees to build ships but ah well, it would give me extra enjoyment to see exactly those areas being rewilded, forested.

Yer a Druid!

 

[cannabineer]

I'm looking back a little further than the industrial revolution. About 1400 years ago, christians came and cut down the holy trees of my ancestors. To show the old gods had no power to stop them. There's a story about how every person christianized resulted in a tree getting cut, and that matches how some the least forested areas in NL are also the most christian and churched areas. We cut the trees to build ships but ah well, it would give me extra enjoyment to see exactly those areas being rewilded, forested.

I picture those forest floors to be dotted with patches of feral *unt. Teachers leading lines of field-trip schoolchildren past them as a warning of how close we came to the tale of the Lorax.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Who knows, maybe for proteins there will be huge genetically modified cockroach farms that eat garbage and then go into the burger hopper... Soylent green anybody?

 

[Sativied]

Dairy products are the obvious target

40% of cows in this area are milk cows, so plenty of potential for a major impact regardless. To affect the other part at least as dramatically it only needs to result in nutritious alt-protein sources.

Yer a Druid!

Different tribe, that's Celts. One of the first things they teach kids here in history class is the history of the Celts, Saxons, Angles, Jutes and Frisians, who all occupied different but overlapping areas of Europe. So we don't end up saying ninja to a Korean. I know, we all look the same to you foreigners!

I picture those forest floors to be dotted with patches of feral *unt. Teachers leading lines of field-trip schoolchildren past them as a warning of how close we came to the tale of the Lorax.

It's not something they like to talk about. I'm not even joking.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Different tribe, that's Celts. One of the first things they teach kids here in history class is the history of the Celts, Saxons, Angles, Jutes and Frisians, who all occupied different but overlapping areas of Europe. So we don't end up saying ninja to a Korean. I know, we all look the same to you foreigners!

Half of the Uk was called the Dane law at one point and the Normans were...

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

The Future of Food - By Brewing??

Everyone loves ice cream and cheese, but everything that's needed, cows and all, leave some people feeling guilty. We brew beer using yeast, so what if we could brew food? What if we could grow way more food, with less land and water? What are the unintended consequences? Let's talk about Precision Fermentation, and why it's about to disrupt the entire food industry as we know it! The Biggest Disruption in History That No One is Talking About!

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Engineering Breakthroughs That Will FEED The World

Farming changed the world, we used to all spend our days trying to find enough food to survive. Then came farming, and people became musicians and writers, and well modern civilization. But growing food comes with its fair share of challenges, and feeding the next billion people, isn't automatic. Today I wanted to share 4 ways engineering and food science, is hard at work to solve these problems. Let's figure this out together!

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Power Unseen: The Silent Revolution of Batteries | Full Documentary

Without batteries our modern world is unthinkable. They have catapulted mankind into the mobile age and are the prerequisite for the technical progress of the last 200 years. They are rarely in the spotlight because they do their job silently and invisibly. But without them, everyday life for most people around the world would look completely different.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

IEA forecasts underestimated the growth of renewables for over a decade by a lot and Tony Seba did not, and today prophesy almost has the power of religion in some circles. He is probably right about solar, EVs and batteries and automation, and he predicts some optimistic things within a decade. New more power dense batteries mean more than better EVs and devices, it could be the power supply for the humanoid robot that takes a job and can work a shift or a day without recharging.

Renewables to overtake coal as largest global electricity source in 2025

The IEA has released its Renewables 2023 report, in which it predicts that renewable energy sources will surpass a key milestone in 2025.

www.teslarati.com

 

[BudmanTX]

Batteries arch enemy......cold weather.....i went through this personally........

Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold

Tesla advises owners to keep the charge level above 20 percent during bitter cold weather.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Batteries arch enemy......cold weather.....i went through this personally........

Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold

Tesla advises owners to keep the charge level above 20 percent during bitter cold weather.

www.cbsnews.com

They are for now, but over 80% of the global population don't need to worry about cold weather performance, even many in coastal areas like where I live that are pretty far north. Most folks in North America will wait for better batteries and some solid-state ones work well at -30C according to independent tests, there are production bugs, but there is also a lot of potential.

 

[BudmanTX]

They are for now, but over 80% of the global population don't need to worry about cold weather performance, even many in coastal areas like where I live that are pretty far north. Most folks in North America will wait for better batteries and some solid-state ones work well at -30C according to independent tests, there are production bugs, but there is also a lot of potential.

North America was covered in a polar vortex, that ment temps were from -50 to where i am 17F....i have a neighbor that actually bought a POS Tesla, it's a nice car, but when it was 17f here, it was DOA. Chargin station were also DOA, from Texas all the way up to Chi town.......i can see EV's possiblities, they have alot of work to do. At this point you would see an EV vehicle anywhere near the north pole or south pole......

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Batteries arch enemy......cold weather.....i went through this personally........

Tesla owners run into battery charging trouble in Chicago's bitter cold

Tesla advises owners to keep the charge level above 20 percent during bitter cold weather.

www.cbsnews.com

Don't expect most ICE cars to start at -45C unless they have a block heater and maybe a battery heater too, lead acid batteries are affected by the cold too. Many places have outlets for block heaters up here and in the north central states, a battery heater is not much of a stretch. I expect third party add ons like a propane heater for batteries that runs of a barbeque tank, fits in the Frunk of an EV and heats the battery pack as required. A tank of propane should last a year if the car was plugged in too. There will be innovations and that one is like an old Volkswagen heater vented through the battery bank or heating the pack's cooling system.