War

k0rps

Well-Known Member
WATCH: Failing Gaza – Behind the Lens of Western Media

When political leaders speak of genocide, they repeat a timeworn mantra: “Never again”.

Over the past year, for the Palestinians of Gaza, “again” has become reality – mass casualties broadcast almost in real time by its victims.

This film is about an alternative version of that reality – the one told by major Western news organisations – and how it has provided cover for Israel’s war on Gaza.

Based on interviews with more than a dozen insiders, it lifts the curtain on the inner workings of agenda-setting outlets like CNN, the BBC and The New York Times.
 
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k0rps

Well-Known Member
Wafa Al-Udaini, who wrote articles about the war in English advocating the Palestinian viewpoint, was killed when a missile struck her house in the central city of Deir Al-Balah, also killing her husband and their two children. Udaini’s death raised the number of Palestinian journalists killed in the Israeli offensive since Oct. 7 to 174.

In another strike, a Palestinian was killed and several were wounded in Rafah, near the border with Egypt, while in the northern town of Beit Hanoun an airstrike killed one man and injured others, medics said. An Israeli airstrike on a house in Nuseirat, one of Gaza Strip’s eight historic refugee camps, killed six people, health officials said.

Some residents said fighting and Israeli military activities in Gaza have declined slightly in the past week as Israel has escalated its military offensive in Lebanon. While the intensity of the ground offensive has been lower, Israel has kept up its airstrikes in the enclave, they added.

Most of Gaza’s population of 2.3 million has been displaced by the war, in which more than 41,500 Palestinians have been killed, according to Gaza health authorities.
French President Emmanuel Macron urged a halt to arms deliveries to Israel, which has been criticized over the conduct of its retaliatory operation in Gaza. “I think that today, the priority is that we return to a political solution, that we stop delivering weapons to fight in Gaza,” Macron told broadcaster France Inter. “France is not delivering any,” he added during the interview recorded early this week.

The US provides about $3 billion in weapons to Israel each year.

In May, the State Department said it did not have enough evidence to block shipments of weapons but that it was “reasonable to assess” that Israel has used arms in ways inconsistent with standards of humanitarian law. In September, Britain said it was suspending some arms exports to Israel, citing a “clear risk” that they could be used in a serious breach of international humanitarian law.
Macron reiterated his concern over the conflict in Gaza that is continuing despite repeated calls for a ceasefire.

“I think we are not being heard,” he said. “I think it is a mistake, including for the security of Israel,” he said, adding that the conflict was leading to “hatred.” Macron also said avoiding an escalation in Lebanon was a “priority.”

“Lebanon cannot become a new Gaza,” he added.

 

mooray

Well-Known Member
It's tough because Republicans won't fund Ukraine's efforts against the Russian invasion unless funds also make it to Israel, so you have to do 25% the right thing and 75% the wrong thing for Israel/Gaza, in order to do 100% the right thing in Ukraine. Or, do nothing at all for anyone. Right now, those seem to be the only choices.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I have always tried to make clear that I am extremely naive when it comes to foreign affairs. I have met many people from these war-torn/non allied areas and do know that we are all humans. We all feel the same emotions, have similar dreams, kids wills till play similar in the worse conditions as they would if they were at some American suburban water park, families will still love one another, and fight hard for those they love and need protecting. At the end of the day, I have seen that we are all just humans, and hating or categorizing any particular group and believing that they are different is a waste of time. Thinking that I am not willing to change my mind, or have the ability to listen to conflicting views is a bummer, because I am and do.

Outside of movies like Rambo and hearing all my life how this region is always on the verge of kicking off WW3. I stayed somewhat ignorant when I would hear people talking about this (being in college math courses you end up meeting people from all sorts of countries and can end up having some truly outstanding conversations), because I didn't want to interject when I could see how truly raw these conversations would get and didn't want to interrupt.

One question I always had, and something that I have not really heard said anywhere about this, was when did Jewish people land in Gaza. All the videos about it directly started with stuff like 'who controlled', but I didn't really give a shit about that, I wanted to know who lived there. I started to watch a video about this areas population and changes over the centuries, but stopped almost instantly since it answered my question.

Being an American, in more recent years acknowledging the contributions of the people we tortured and forced into doing the hard labor of our nation, and knowing that we need to include a lot more than white guys in the 'our forefathers built this' discussion. When I came across Egyptians settled this area 5000 years ago, I had my answer. With my limited knowledge one thing that had always been my understanding is that Egyptians used the Jewish people as slaves. And if the Egyptians moved into this areas and started to do work, that would mean that the Jewish people were also there working right along side them from the start.



I am two hours into this examination of a panel discussion of the and really wish they would have had a better panelist for the pro-Palestinian side.

But it has given me a lot more information and am glad I watched it.



If anyone is interested in a Detroit conversation about the last year of hell out of this region.


I wish all the people in this region can soon live their lives freely in true peace, safety, and prosperity.
 

mooray

Well-Known Member
I think at this point the specifics of what each side does, serves mostly as a manipulative influence to push people to take sides, when there really aren't any good guys in this conflict to get behind. What ends up happening is people become super passionate about supporting their guy and then do a bunch of "yeah but..." mental gymnastics to excuse why their guy is basically a hero for doing bad stuff and the other guy is a bad guy for doing bad stuff.

Each side has good reason to do what they're doing as a general concept, but their hatred for each other causes them to do it in terrible ways. Since Israel has more resources, they're able to do more of it, but all that means is that our only choices of people to support is bad and more bad. In real life, there is no grading on a curve where more bad causes the other bad to become good, which means I'd have to corrupt my character in order to create the non-existent reality that's necessary to actually take a side. From there it becomes more clear, I'm for no one and against the behaviors of everyone.

Also, I know it's not great to disparage regions like you're saying, but the middle east pretty much sucks when it comes to everyone that's not a hetero mainstream male comporting to all norms. I don't think that treating gays poorly falls under the category of different and that's fine, they're all welcome to live in bigoted cultures and I feel no need to impose my western beliefs on them. I'm just not going to like any cultures that don't aspire to view all categories of peoples as being equal.
 

k0rps

Well-Known Member
I think at this point the specifics of what each side does, serves mostly as a manipulative influence to push people to take sides, when there really aren't any good guys in this conflict to get behind.
When you say "sides" are you referring to the A. European colonizers & Jewish Settlers who've come into B. indigenous Arabs land forcing them out? I think the specifics do need to be mentioned because we are witnessing a US funded genocide and mass displacement of innocent humans, it's absolutely disgraceful.

What ends up happening is people become super passionate about supporting their guy and then do a bunch of "yeah but..." mental gymnastics to excuse why their guy is basically a hero for doing bad stuff and the other guy is a bad guy for doing bad stuff.
What mental gymnastics does one do to defend their country from US/Zionist invasion? Are Palestinians and Lebanese allowed to defend themselves? Is it okay for Israel to murder innocent civilians with US made weapons/bombs?

No one is a hero for killing innocent humans. Hezbollah has targeted military sites each attack, while Israel has carpet bombed Gaza and Beirut, destroyed schools, hospitals, care sites and refugee camps filled with people. There is clear, ample evidence the US-backed Israel/Zionist parties are doing the most intense damage and should be held accountable for their war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Each side has good reason to do what they're doing as a general concept,
interesting, tell us more.. What's a good reason to displace millions of people for Israel to colonize/control the land, sea and air? What is a good reason for the US to have military bases around the world? Capitalism is killing the planet, destroying the ecosystem and murdering or enslaving innocent people across the world..

but their hatred for each other causes them to do it in terrible ways.
I agree. The hate, dehumanization and US-funded deaths/destruction need to stop! Zionist children in Israel are taught from a young age to hate their Arab neighbors and dream of colonizing the land.. it's sickening. US does it through movies, tv shows and news programs.

Since Israel has more resources, they're able to do more of it, but all that means is that our only choices of people to support is bad and more bad.
True. Because US/UK has funded/supported them all this time.. As Americans we should be ashamed at what our tax dollars are funding. Do you agree with Israel's "war" response and the US sending munitions to carry out these attacks? I don't agree with any of the actions taken by the US or Israel, but have met plenty of folks who parrot talking points that rationalize this "war" against civilians by dehumanizing them.

In real life, there is no grading on a curve where more bad causes the other bad to become good, which means I'd have to corrupt my character in order to create the non-existent reality that's necessary to actually take a side. From there it becomes more clear, I'm for no one and against the behaviors of everyone.
Agreed. It's crazy to see in this day European/American colonization, it's a shame really.. What would you do if violent immigrants/settlers came to your home and stole your land by brutal force or killed your neighbor's family, burned your generational crops/family land etc?

Also, I know it's not great to disparage regions like you're saying, but the middle east pretty much sucks when it comes to everyone that's not a hetero mainstream male comporting to all norms.
This is one of those talking points..

I don't think that treating gays poorly falls under the category of different and that's fine,
Common parroting while having no personal knowledge of the people/area but "that's fine".

they're all welcome to live in bigoted cultures
Like Israel? The most bigoted terrorist/partheid state.

and I feel no need to impose my western beliefs on them.
That's good.. US imperialism is doing this around the world.
I'm just not going to like any cultures that don't aspire to view all categories of peoples as being equal.
 
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k0rps

Well-Known Member
The Problem Isn’t Just Netanyahu. It’s Israeli Society.
Despite blaming the prime minister, a large majority of Jewish Israeli citizens support his destructive policies in Gaza and beyond.
When U.S. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, one of the staunchest pro-Israel lawmakers in the United States and the highest-ranking Jewish official in Washington, effectively called for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ouster on the Senate floor in mid-March, it was a watershed moment for anyone following Israel’s role in U.S. politics.

Israel has been so sacrosanct in America for so long that the idea that a hawkish Democrat like Schumer would call for regime change in Israel is extraordinary. But the Senate leader’s stance is fairly mainstream among Israelis. There’s consensus—even within his own party—that elections should be held early. It seems like conventional wisdom in Israel that Netanyahu is dragging out the war for his own political survival, since he knows the moment it comes to a halt, Israelis will focus even more resolutely on investigating the failures of Oct. 7 and pushing for early elections to vote him out of office.

The focus on Netanyahu is a convenient distraction from the fact that the war in Gaza is not Netanyahu’s war, it is Israel’s war—and the problem isn’t only Netanyahu; it’s the Israeli electorate.

Blaming Netanyahu—who refuses to leave Israeli political life despite being on trial for corruption and presiding over the country during the worst catastrophe in its history—has eclipsed the fact that when it comes to Israeli policies on Gaza in particular, and the Palestinians in general, many Israelis are broadly aligned with Netanyahu. By a large margin they support the current military campaign in Gaza and the government’s goal of destroying Hamas, whatever the human toll for Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
FOR YEARS, ISRAELIS HAVE BEEN ABLE—through military and economic domination—to disregard the single most pressing issue facing the country—its control over millions of Palestinians. The shock and trauma inflicted by the Oct. 7 attack opened the floodgates even further on what is considered acceptable.

A large majority—88 percent—of Jewish Israelis polled in January believe the astounding number of Palestinian deaths, which had surpassed 25,000 at the time, is justified. A large majority of the Jewish public also thinks that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) is using adequate or even too little force in Gaza. Couched in the idea that Hamas forced this “war of no choice” upon Israel and the people of Gaza and that Hamas must be destroyed as a matter of Israeli survival, even the threat of imminent famine in Gaza has not provoked opposition to the campaign.

Further, in a February poll by the Israel Democracy Institute, around two-thirds of Jewish respondents (63 percent) said they oppose the proposal for Israel to agree in principle to the establishment of an independent, demilitarized Palestinian state. Israeli leaders have framed the movement underway internationally for governments to unilaterally recognize Palestine as a state to be rewarding the Palestinians for the Oct. 7 attack.

You don’t need a poll to discover that support for a two-state solution, much less for Palestinian basic rights of freedom and self-determination, has been steadily declining among Jewish Israelis in recent years, and today is probably the lowest it has ever been. You can just look at the positions of Israel’s Jewish political parties. Almost none of them endorse a two-state solution, and the ones in power actively reject it, working fastidiously to thwart it from ever happening.
 

mooray

Well-Known Member
When you say "sides" are you referring to the A. European colonizers & Jewish Settlers who've come into B. indigenous Arabs land forcing them out? I think the specifics do need to be mentioned because we are witnessing a US funded genocide and mass displacement of innocent humans, it's absolutely disgraceful.


What mental gymnastics does one do to defend their country from US/Zionist invasion? Are Palestinians and Lebanese allowed to defend themselves? Is it okay for Israel to murder innocent civilians with US made weapons/bombs?

No one is a hero for killing innocent humans. Hezbollah has targeted military sites each attack, while Israel has carpet bombed Gaza and Beirut, destroyed schools, hospitals, care sites and refugee camps filled with people. There is clear, ample evidence the US-backed Israel/Zionist parties are doing the most intense damage and should be held accountable for their war crimes and crimes against humanity.


interesting, tell us more.. What's a good reason to displace millions of people for Israel to colonize/control the land, sea and air? What is a good reason for the US to have military bases around the world? Capitalism is killing the planet, destroying the ecosystem and murdering or enslaving innocent people across the world..


I agree. The hate, dehumanization and US-funded deaths/destruction need to stop! Zionist children in Israel are taught from a young age to hate their Arab neighbors and dream of colonizing the land.. it's sickening. US does it through movies, tv shows and news programs.


True. Because US/UK has funded/supported them all this time.. As Americans we should be ashamed at what our tax dollars are funding. Do you agree with Israel's "war" response and the US sending munitions to carry out these attacks? I don't agree with any of the actions taken by the US or Israel, but have met plenty of folks who parrot talking points that rationalize this "war" against civilians by dehumanizing them.


Agreed. It's crazy to see in this day European/American colonization, it's a shame really.. What would you do if violent immigrants/settlers came to your home and stole your land by brutal force or killed your neighbor's family, burned your generational crops/family land etc?


This is one of those talking points..


Common parroting while having no personal knowledge of the people/area but "that's fine".


Like Israel? The most bigoted terrorist/partheid state.


That's good.. US imperialism is doing this around the world.

Oh my dude....this is precisely what I'm talking about. Deep into the my-guy-can-do-no-wrong and your-guy-can-do-no-right trap. Good luck to you.
 

k0rps

Well-Known Member
UN inquiry accuses Israel of crime of ‘extermination’

A United Nations inquiry says it found that Israel carried out a concerted policy of destroying Gaza’s healthcare system in the Gaza war, actions amounting to both war crimes and the crime against humanity of extermination.

A statement by ex-UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay released ahead of a full report accused Israel of “relentless and deliberate attacks on medical personnel and facilities” in the war.

“Children in particular have borne the brunt of these attacks, suffering both directly and indirectly from the collapse of the health system,” said Pillay, whose report will be presented to the UN General Assembly on October 30.

The UN inquiry’s statement also accused Israeli forces of deliberately killing and torturing medical personnel, targeting medical vehicles and restricting permits for patients to leave the besieged Gaza Strip.
 
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