"What im saying is if you have a 12x12 growroom then you only pro have about half of that as bloom space."
naw, space is not a limiting factor for me, i have a separate clone/vedge room that's plenty big.
"So you have a 6x12 space suitable for two 1000 watt lights. the six by 12 space has an area of 72 sq ft. Now imagine you seperate your 6x12 bloom space into two 6x6 spaces."
i'm not sure where you get this man... the link you keep referring to says that he is in a 8' by 8' room i believe... and that if it were any smaller that he would have problems with burning his plants. maybe if you had a cooltube setup you could do the '6x6'
"You build an octagon of shelving 7 feet hight."
the guy who's example you've been using has rooms that are 8 ft high. the ground or near to it is used as a shelf and another shelf is place midway up.
"Inside that octagon you will now have a wall area of 168 square ft."
the sq. footage of wall space inside an octagon in a room that is 6' by 6' by 8' is around 120 sq. ft. not counting a door.
"Shelve the space out however you want but make sure that you fill up all the wallspace with foliage and you effectively turned a 36sq ft of growing canopy into 168 square ft of canopy."
like i said, if floor space is a limiting factor, then YES vertical is Obviously the way to go.
"Thats 4.6 times more canopy in the same area man."
If this were relevant and/or true... then vertical growers would yield 2.3x more bud than flat growers per 1000w. A flat grower that has his room dialed in can get about 2lbs per 1000w. Do you know any vertical growers claiming to get 4.6 lbs per 1000w bulb?
"If you used the whole space by building 4 octagons and putting 2k watts in each one then you turned a room using 4k and producing about a lb per lamp into a room using 8k and producing 2lbs per lamp."
8k sounds like a good way to get busted... but as already stated, there are flat growers getting 2lbs. per lamp.
"and that guy gets 3lbs per 1k lamp."
i don't know where you are getting this man. i read the SAME thread you did and it says that he got 4.25 lbs from (2) 1000w HPS bubls. He only got 6 lbs. total by adding another 600w HPS bulb between the other two 1000w bulbs.
"So you go from a total of 4k, and 144 square feet of grow space producing 4 lbs. to 8k 672 sq ft of grow canopy, producing 16 lbs."
those numbers are possible in a flat grow. that is the usual range in yield. from 1lb to 2 lbs. per 1000w HPS.
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"and if you double the lighting you were using you can quadruple what you were getting out of the same space."
a person MAY be able to double what they are getting from a floor footprint going with a two tier vert system. or even triple what they are getting from a particular footprint with a three tier vert system. You are the ONLY one claiming that a person can quadruple their yeild from a floor space. And you are missing the -BIG- point... if you take those same three 1000w lights in that VERT system and put them out over a FLAT area... you are going to yeild about 6lbs either way.
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"These are hard numbers man. Im just giving you the straight dope. you seem like your trying to convince me that a shit ton of vert guys are wrong."
no, i'm trying to convince you that you should pay better attention to exactly what they are doing before you waste your own time and money, and more importantly, other people's time and money.
"Theres a reason you dont see a bunch of shit about vert on forums. the guys that do it are to busy spending all their money to log onto these forums."
hilarious. all those poor broke-ass flat growers are just ashamed of themselves, i'm sure.
"These forums seem to be more for novice and medical growers who just want to keep from buying pot from a drug dealer. Or the dealer whos tired of his supply drying up and want to produce a lb or two every thirty days."
hate to tell you bro, but there's plenty of experienced growers around these part. from what i have seen, RIU is the most active Mary J board on the whole WWW. That means theres tons of pros and amateurs.
"Commercial growers havnt really made an impact on these forums alot."
this another one of your 'hard facts' ?
"And im sure if alot of people knew the ease at which you can grow vertical and the obvious benefits of it they would switch."
you must have stock in Vertical
"So it is "Cut and Dried". The only thing thats not cut and dried is the learning curve from learning to maximize a new system. And every method of growing has a learnign curve when your trying to maximize what the space can produce. SO........im going vert. You can keep telling yourself that its not the way to go. Ill post a link to my vert grow in here when i get started in two weeks. Im gonna be using 2k in one octagon."
i don't doubt that that is the right setup for maximizing the yield in -your grow space-. the reason why everyone ISN'T retarded is because not everyone is limited in their grow space, but rather limited by the Electricity that they use... and therefor prefer the ease of Flat growing in a larger footprint.
In your initial post you asked if 'everyone is retarded' and why everyone hasn't switched to vertical. You weren't actually looking for an answer to that question, obviously. It should have been called, 'Anyone not doing vertical is retarded.'
1. I have read about many vertical grows and just as often as not, they fail to break the 2 lb. per 1000w barrier.
2. Vertical setups seem to require more time in the garden.
3. Vertical space is not equivalent to horizontal space on a sq. ft. by sq. ft. basis.
4. There are different problems to deal with in a vertical setup, ie; controlling heat if you aren't using cooltubes.
5. Vertical setups require you to do some minor construction or setup in the grow area, often reducing the floor space by adding walls.
6. If they are going to require more work and yield the same amount of buds then its a waste of time.
7. If floorspace is not a limiting factor, everything that i have seen indicates that VERTICAL offers marginal improvements in yeild, at best, over FLAT grows.
Last Example: FloJo said that he/she is expecting 5-8 lbs off of 2400watts. (More power to you FloJo for maximizing your space, im just trying to make a point as to why EVERYONE and their brother is Vert-Happy) If FloJo gets 5lbs. then they are right at the 2lbs per 1000w HPS 'barrier' that most FLAT growers run into. If this person gets 7 or 8 lbs.... THEN it would indicate that vertical growing is superior in gram per watt. Most of the Vert grows i've read about Do Not establish this as fact.
The Future of Vertical Growing is riding on you FloJo, no pressure, no pressure
now lets just hug
I got a ? for you prophet. I use a warehouse to grow. I have 1 veg room thats around 18' x 18' with 3 1000 watt MH on light movers going over 2 16' x 4' tables and my 16 moms. I have 2 flower rooms that are about 13' x 18' I use the same size tables but I run 4 1000 watt hps's over each table. I harvest 2 tables a month and get about 18lbs. 
I grow big plants, about 4 ft when finished. I use peat moss in 5 gallon bags and when I water, that stuff gets really heavy! Do I need to worry about anything falling or etc. Here's a pic of one of my veg tables. Anybody out there with any suggestions would help.