Obamacrats still retarded
- Thread starter TheBrutalTruth
- Start date
BadDog40
Well-Known Member
Republicans are completely against such things. God forbid some of their tax money goes to helping sick kids, they would much rather have their tax money going to dropping bombs on them.
NewGrowth
Well-Known Member
That is the point I'm trying to make, its not and I am not trying to argue that point. Just seems like the Libertarian point of view takes small government to an extreme. So what about Social Medicine or hell just feeding hungry people?
CrackerJax
New Member
I think at this juncture a small Govt. would be extreme. part of it has nothing to do with money, but in the constitution and the role of Govt.
Govt. overstepped its boundaries long ago, and it will take a man like Lincoln, who would be APPaled at our Govt. today and smack us back on the road to the Constitution.
out.
Govt. overstepped its boundaries long ago, and it will take a man like Lincoln, who would be APPaled at our Govt. today and smack us back on the road to the Constitution.
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Spitzered
Well-Known Member
The biggest problems I have with socialized medicine is, it gonna make insurance companies, lawyers and pharmaceutical companies even MORE money than they get now.
As for educational funding, I would be in favor of that especially if they got out of the social engineering business and more into the educational business. Teach em how to think instead of what to think.
Roads, yeah, but any construction project the govt pays for they get about 40 to 60 cents on every dollar they spend. Why you may ask?
Because the govt is stupid, they don't hire people to oversee the actual work that know how to do the work, they hire people to oversee the paperwork to make sure its right.
And you can make paperwork look like anything you want.
Cardinal sin in construction work is doing work twice. But when you work for the Govt. why do it right the first time when you can get paid to do it 3 times.
Why do you thing everyone wants Govt contracts?
NewGrowth
Well-Known Member
Never said Government was efficient. How do you figure insurance companies would get MORE money if we had socialized medicine. I received military health care for years, medications were cheaper and doctors were not limited by insurance companies. Social medicine is a big loss for Big Pharma otherwise we would already have it.
So its seems that government is a necessary evil, but corruption is human thing.
Oh and the part I made green, well that is beaurocracy for you. Who else is going to build roads, unless you want to pay tolls. . .
Spitzered
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I do the VA thing to, sometimes I even get a doctor that speaks english. But I'm not complaining, and that wheelchair bound dude did a good job of revamping the VA as far as I know.
But the Dems are promoting mandatory 'Health Insurance'.
But with socialized medicine who sets the fee's, someone gotta pay, even if it is the govt, and where do they get the money from? Us.
So someone is gonna negotiate the fees with the govt, or is everybody associated with the medical profession going to be govt employees? Is the govt going to be in Pharm business too?
I know people who come to America from Sweden, Canada and UK to get procedures done here that isn't sanctioned by the powers that be.
CrackerJax
New Member
I suggest you actually read a paper or something. All of the numbers come back positive on the Bush tax cuts. Ur ass backwards....
I guess Kennedy was an idiot as well.
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medicineman
New Member
The biggest problems I have with socialized medicine is, it gonna make insurance companies, lawyers and pharmaceutical companies even MORE money than they get now.
Socialized medicine would only work if you took the insurance companies and the HMOs out of the loop. Not for profit medical is exactly what the country needs. It would relieve all large companies of the burden of covering their employees. With a little extra out of your pay and a little from the employer, erveryone could be covered for 2/3s to 1/2 the cost. Cutting out all the middle men and the profit mongers would reduce the cost of medicine dramatically. Plus the government could buy large amounst of pharmaceuticals for discount prices like the VA does now. Most of my medicine cost the va around 1.50-6.00 a 30 day perscription. They charge me 8.00 so they actually make a small profit. y VA works like this, 15.00 for a dr visit and 8.00 per 30 day perscription. they mail it out to me, and I only have to go once every 6 months to get my scrips renewed, otherwise I call once a month and tell them what I need, and voila, about 3-5 days later it comes in the mail. A similar plan could be had for all, no middle men no HMO bullshit, just you and your doctor caring for you. The VA plan works. For those prima-donnas, I suppose they could pay for a "real" doctor and stay off the program. I doubt anyone would force you to go to a government facility, there would be plenty of greedy doctors waiting for you to show up and hand over your hard earned cash.
Socialized medicine would only work if you took the insurance companies and the HMOs out of the loop. Not for profit medical is exactly what the country needs. It would relieve all large companies of the burden of covering their employees. With a little extra out of your pay and a little from the employer, erveryone could be covered for 2/3s to 1/2 the cost. Cutting out all the middle men and the profit mongers would reduce the cost of medicine dramatically. Plus the government could buy large amounst of pharmaceuticals for discount prices like the VA does now. Most of my medicine cost the va around 1.50-6.00 a 30 day perscription. They charge me 8.00 so they actually make a small profit. y VA works like this, 15.00 for a dr visit and 8.00 per 30 day perscription. they mail it out to me, and I only have to go once every 6 months to get my scrips renewed, otherwise I call once a month and tell them what I need, and voila, about 3-5 days later it comes in the mail. A similar plan could be had for all, no middle men no HMO bullshit, just you and your doctor caring for you. The VA plan works. For those prima-donnas, I suppose they could pay for a "real" doctor and stay off the program. I doubt anyone would force you to go to a government facility, there would be plenty of greedy doctors waiting for you to show up and hand over your hard earned cash.
ViRedd
New Member
NewGrowth
Well-Known Member
I doubt it Vi, we spend more money per person on medical care than most countries that have social medicine. Everybody comes up with, retarded arguments against it. Ask a canadian man they love their medical care system it works well. I have a friend that live in Canada and have seen first hand. It is just like military medicine much more efficient, more personal, and FREE!
I agree we do a damn good job of having low cost food available to all that is one of our triumphs but Libertarian tax cut ideas would cause a problem where there currently is not one.
Germany has a great example of a social medical system that works very well
medicineman
New Member
Sorry but you're talking to the wall when you tell VI these things. To him, it's all about commies and socialists. He really doesn't give one fuck if anyone but him has medical. Afterall, one must earn medical care, even if one can't find a job.I doubt it Vi, we spend more money per person on medical care than most countries that have social medicine. Everybody comes up with, retarded arguments against it. Ask a canadian man they love their medical care system it works well. I have a friend that live in Canada and have seen first hand. It is just like military medicine much more efficient, more personal, and FREE!
I agree we do a damn good job of having low cost food available to all that is one of our triumphs but Libertarian tax cut ideas would cause a problem where there currently is not one.
Germany has a great example of a social medical system that works very well
CrackerJax
New Member
If you took all of the tax monies used for something like say, "feeding the needy" (med man? 
) a much more efficient means would be to collect the taxes as usual and then dump it into selected private charities with a good track record for transparency and non waste. This would exclude nut job org's like ACORN and such. While the taxes wouldn't go down for the average citizen, the amount of people actually helped and fed would skyrocket.
Two birds, one stone. People fed, govt. smaller.
More importantly for Med man...no profits realized by anyone.
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) a much more efficient means would be to collect the taxes as usual and then dump it into selected private charities with a good track record for transparency and non waste. This would exclude nut job org's like ACORN and such. While the taxes wouldn't go down for the average citizen, the amount of people actually helped and fed would skyrocket.Two birds, one stone. People fed, govt. smaller.
More importantly for Med man...no profits realized by anyone.
out.
medicineman
New Member
Yeah, I suppose you could give every man woman and child 2500.00 and that would stimulate the economy also. What we are looking for, I believe, are Jobs, not handouts. With jobs, everything gets stimulated, even the debt as people with jobs pay taxes, or should. The difference between you and I is that I believe there are certain rights one should expect in the richest industrial nation on the planet, rights like the ability to have a job that pays a liveable wage, the right to medical services, the right to a college education, while you believe the individual should reign supreme, and fuck those that can't rise above the herd, let them eat shit. I believe there should be leaders and an upper class, just not kings and serfs. Every citizen deserves a chance to have a good job, free medical and free education. Without those three items, we are no better than 16th century europe.If you took all of the tax monies used for something like say, "feeding the needy" (med man?
Two birds, one stone. People fed, govt. smaller.
More importantly for Med man...no profits realized by anyone.
out.
CrackerJax
New Member
i just used that as an example of toning down the govt. and using tax monies more efficiently. I'm pretty sure though that the homeless would be quite grateful at the upturn of services and the taxpayers as well for money well spent for a GOOD cause.
I don't believe in whacking up tax monies as a divident for every citizen...that's redistibution of wealth which has never historically worked. No, better to relieve the producers of their taxes for a spell, that would create the correct atmosphere for a much much faster turnaround.
I posted much earlier that i could come up with a much better formula for a turnaround than what has been presented (and passed without even debate mind you)...
So here it is in a nut shell....
1.) Suspend payroll taxes on every working American for one year. This doers two things...it puts money in every body's pocket each and every week. People who do not have a job and may not be inclined to get one or have given up will want one...at least for that year
.2.) Drop corporate and capital gains taxes down to 10% for 2 years and then cap it at 15% for 5 years after. This will compliment the first action by creating entrepenuership again (people respond to profit, of course) and jobs for those seeking it. There will be foreign investments like nothing seen before, which is no small antidote to what ails us.
3.) Knock down every trade barrier possible. Open up the markets and let the money flow while at the same time since the economy will rebound, tighten up the dollar money supply to hedge inflation (which is coming...you can't just print money).
4.) Let failed businesses fail. That is the only true way to build a strionger future. throwing good money at bad books is futile. Scratch the banks off and start new ones with clean leverages and credit ratings. The same with the Detroit threeauto makers. let them dump (i suspect they will anyways after they spend the bail out money...doh!)
There are other details that would be needed as well, but you get the jist of it.
This will cost no more than the present spending bill, but with far greater efficiency.
Of course I am not beholding to lobbyists and unions....
out.
NewGrowth
Well-Known Member
Knocking down trade barriers even further will only threaten domestic jobs even further and cause overseas corporations to further take advantage of the third world and its people. Slavery still exists today and sadly it is supported by US foreign policy. Dropping capital gains will only benefit the richest, most middle class americans would be unaffected. We are being robbed blind with these bank bail outs it makes me sick.i just used that as an example of toning down the govt. and using tax monies more efficiently. I'm pretty sure though that the homeless would be quite grateful at the upturn of services and the taxpayers as well for money well spent for a GOOD cause.
I don't believe in whacking up tax monies as a divident for every citizen...that's redistibution of wealth which has never historically worked. No, better to relieve the producers of their taxes for a spell, that would create the correct atmosphere for a much much faster turnaround.
I posted much earlier that i could come up with a much better formula for a turnaround than what has been presented (and passed without even debate mind you)...
So here it is in a nut shell....
1.) Suspend payroll taxes on every working American for one year. This doers two things...it puts money in every body's pocket each and every week. People who do not have a job and may not be inclined to get one or have given up will want one...at least for that year
2.) Drop corporate and capital gains taxes down to 10% for 2 years and then cap it at 15% for 5 years after. This will compliment the first action by creating entrepenuership again (people respond to profit, of course) and jobs for those seeking it. There will be foreign investments like nothing seen before, which is no small antidote to what ails us.
3.) Knock down every trade barrier possible. Open up the markets and let the money flow while at the same time since the economy will rebound, tighten up the dollar money supply to hedge inflation (which is coming...you can't just print money).
4.) Let failed businesses fail. That is the only true way to build a strionger future. throwing good money at bad books is futile. Scratch the banks off and start new ones with clean leverages and credit ratings. The same with the Detroit threeauto makers. let them dump (i suspect they will anyways after they spend the bail out money...doh!)
There are other details that would be needed as well, but you get the jist of it.
This will cost no more than the present spending bill, but with far greater efficiency.
Of course I am not beholding to lobbyists and unions....
out.
TheBrutalTruth
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised to hear anything of intelligence coming out of the mouth of some one stupid enough to think Canada's health care is free.
That position is the dumbest, most ignorant crock of idiotic horseshit I have ever heard. For the record, the people pay for it, through their taxes. I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in paying the level of taxes that they have in Canada, or Europe, or any where else that has Socialized Medicine.
medicineman
New Member
Just FYI Brutal, the taxes paid in socialized medicine countries, that go towards medical expenses, are far less to the individual then all the costs of health care in the USA when itemized on an individual basis. It is far more cost effective to have a not for profit medical system centrally operated such as VA medical. Your typical VA medical may not be what Obama and the 535 recieve, but being a recipient, let me say it is far better than 47 million recieve (NONE) and a lot cheaper than about 250 million recieve.